Low visibility

Why don't some boaters display lights and make proper sounds in low visibility? Wouldn't you think yacht club members would do it right? No, not when they exited Benicia harbor the 2011 Thanksgiving. Sent a message to the club's commodore about his member's relapse, but received no response. The Richmond Yacht Club may be a fine organization (my father was a member fifty years ago in order to race his sailboat), but I would not count on them.

markpierce said:

Why don't some boaters display lights and make proper sounds in low visibility?

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From your photo, the lights most likely not be visible in the daytime and inside your pilothouse you would never hear the sailboat's little handheld horn.

And while that's not the greatest visibility I would not consider it low visibility.

markpierce said:

Why don't some boaters display lights and make proper sounds in low visibility?

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Because they don't know they are supposed to or because they've overlooked it. All you need to boat is the money to buy a boat. Or a friend who will loan you his.

As we left one morning a few weeks ago.

Last photo was a mile or so out and you could barely see the bow rail.

I love my radar.

Your'e like my wife Mark. She frequently wants me to turn on the running lights if the sun isn't out.

In your picture Id just be vigilant of a fast boat surprising me from an odd angle like aft on a blind spot.

Marin said:

From your photo, the lights most likely not be visible in the daytime and inside your pilothouse you would never hear the sailboat's little handheld horn.

And while that's not the greatest visibility I would not consider it low visibility.

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My anchor light (was anchored when the photo was taken) was readily visible.

Reminds me of some drivers in the Philippines operating without car lights at night ("in order to save the battery") unless they sense another vehicle.

Marin said:

And while that's not the greatest visibility I would not consider it low visibility.

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'Specially for a workboat captain.

RickB said:

'Specially for a workboat captain.

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Common here for tugboats to display their running lights night and day.

Mark

Like the others said, that is good visibility and use your radar. Use your vessel as it was intended, turn right just beyond the Golden Gate and motor north for a few days. Then we will show you some real poor visibility.

Maine is well known for its "pea soupers". Gives us lots of radar practice while dodging the pots. Before radar it was even more fun.

I'm with the others. Those conditions aren't great but they're certainly not horrible. Take a look at these pics. The first one is what I could see out the windshield as I was coming to an inlet into a bay. At this point I was about 150' from the opening and crabbing across the current to reach the opening......


The next one is the radar image (overlaid on top of the GPS screen) I could see. The black line is my lubber line, the red line is the course over ground. The length of the line represents about 3 minutes travel at my speed of about 2kts. The reason the radar overlay (shown in purple) is not exactly lined up with the GPS display is that the radar image is offset by the time between radar sweeps while the GPS continually updates....

It doesn't cost anything to turn on your running lights so if it makes your boat easier for others to see, why not turn them on even if you don't classify it as "poor visability" ?

Mark's original picture clearly warrants "low vis" requirements as per NOAA/USCG (LESS THAN 10nm visibility)

Not everyone would turn things on but if anything went wrong...NOT having running lights on and sounding fog signals would weigh heavily against you.

The only time I ignore the 10NM vis rule is when the body of water is so small you can see clearly across it even though vis is less than 10NM.

GFC said:

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The captain of the cruise ship we were on declined to leave Stephens Passage to enter Holkham Bay for the scheduled visit to Tracy Arm when the visibility was no worse than pictured in post #1. Risk perspective can change when one is responsible for 3000 lives rather than just your own. (It was not a Costa ship/captain.)

Our pleasure boats' required running-light range typically varies from 1 to 3 miles in clear weather. I wouldn't think to turn on my boat's lights during the day unless visibility was reduced to close to 3 or 4 miles.

Also wouldn't think I'd sound a horn unless visibility was reduced to nearly 1 mile as that's the theoretical range of my horn. Most pleasure boats' horns have a range of half a mile. ... Presume the "canned" horns have a similar range as that's minimum range for small boats. Have little doubt I would have heard his horn, if sounded. My engine was not running, as I was anchored.

The boat pictured on post #1 was about an eighth of a mile away. I'm saying its captain wasn't operating prudently.

Doesn't matter what you think...the definition of reduced visibility is less than 10 NM...so less than that lights and horn is required by the USCG.

psneeld said:

Doesn't matter what you think...the definition of reduced visibility is less than 10 NM...so less than that lights and horn is required by the USCG.

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Haven't been able to locate that definition on an official site. Please help.

markpierce said:

Haven't been able to locate that definition on an official site. Please help.

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When I was teaching captains licensing I was in the same situation...couldn't refer to the exact definition. Then I found it one day...7 computers later and I'm doubtful I have the link. If I find it I'll post it...but my professional rep stands on that's what i saw....it comes from a NOAA meterorology setup as much for aircraft as ships....

dwhatty said:

Maine is well known for its "pea soupers". Gives us lots of radar practice while dodging the pots. Before radar it was even more fun.

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Now that`s thick fog. I doubt you`d see your hand behind your back.

psneeld said:

Doesn't matter what you think...the definition of reduced visibility is less than 10 NM...so less than that lights and horn is required by the USCG.

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I learned it was 3 nautical miles, but don't think I have any documents to support it. If it were ten nautical miles I would (should) hear the ferries horns constantly in Oct-Dec and a smokey Aug.

Easy for me though as I have no professional reputation to defend. I did learn it when I was qualifying lookout however.

Darn it, now I have to look it up too!

Northern Spy said:

I learned it was 3 nautical miles ...

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Hmmm. Compare that to the two-mile theoretical minimum range for horn on a ship longer than 300 meters.

Northern Spy said:

I learned it was 3 nautical miles, but don't think I have any documents to support it. If it were ten nautical miles I would (should) hear the ferries horns constantly in Oct-Dec and a smokey Aug.

Easy for me though as I have no professional reputation to defend. I did learn it when I was qualifying lookout however.

Darn it, now I have to look it up too!

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Good luck...as I said..I think I tripped over it in massive research...

3 NM rings some bells in the aviation arena but I was surprised to read 10 when I came across it.

I doubt the average LEO knows what it is so the use of common sense is probably more important.

For those who argue "what's common sense" then keep at it you'll figure it out some day.

I found it in a few places, but nothing really official.

3NM Naval Academy course.

I also found 1NM (Canadian Coast Guard Aux Pacific) and 10NM in a few places.

I'll give up quickly. Rule 19 is silent on all of the countries coast guard sites I checked. Maybe 3NM was just what the US Navy taught as there doesn't seem to be a hard and fast rule. Which when you think about it makes sense. If you had such a determination, a.) how would you accurately measure it, and b.) how would you prove it in a court of law? Likely better to leave it ambiguous, and relay upon the prudence of the master(s).

Either way, I don't play in fog. I'll leave that to the professionals who have to be out there. This is recreational boating, after all. I have radar, and practice with it often in good visability so I can interpret it correctly. But honestly, I would rather pilot along a shoreline to get me to a safer place then compete with a tow (scow or log raft) or the local ferries.

And Mark, I would have my nav lights on too.

This is Lake Huron with visibility less than 25 yards. I ran 1 1/2 days in this with chart plotter, radar, and a horn. Fortunately, the radar was capable of seeing other boats including the channel marking buoys quite well.

My biggest concern was that other boats, including freighters, were not using their horns.

So, it seems like my rule-of-thumb that one displays running lights and sounds horn/whistle whenever daylight visibility approaches their maximum ranges.

I'm always boating in range of land and in restricted waters, so radar gives me good estimates of visibility range. But when in doubt, I'll display and sound.

Not sure whether this is even related but it maes a little sense when they talk about lights and their effectiveness...maybe it carried over to when you show nav lights...

this is out of the USCG light list...

The nominal range given in this Light List is the maximum distance a
given light can be seen when the meteorological visibility is 10 nautical
miles. If the existing visibility is less than 10 NM, the range at which
the light can be seen will be reduced below its nominal range. And, if
the visibility is greater than 10 NM, the light can be seen at greater
distances. The distance at which a light may be expected to be seen
in the prevailing visibility is called its luminous range.

Great Laker said:

... My biggest concern was that other boats, including freighters, were not using their horns.

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The ba$tard$!

markpierce said:

So, it seems like my rule-of-thumb that one displays running lights and sounds horn/whistle whenever daylight visibility approaches their maximum ranges.

I'm always boating in range of land and restricted waters, so radar gives me good estimates of visibility range. But when in doubt, I'll display and sound.

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I don't think so...that would be a pretty foggy day for small boats to show their lights that are only required 1NM vis....I think it's much higher...in fact I'm pretty sure...just have a hard time finding the reference.