Your annual $ numbers

Budds Outlet said:

"will you still need me, will you still feed me, when I'm 64."

It's amazing the things we think are important when we are younger and now find that they are not nearly as relevant.

I am in the camp that thinks this thread should not be counting the cost of purchase/loan payments/depreciation. The posts laying out the of annual operating costs are what have been of interest to me. The capital cost is a whole nother discussion.

Click to expand...

Yep, i'm with you on tthis one. What i find interesting is the vast diferences between what individuals consider operating expenses. I guess the thread should have been started with a list of the things considered operating expenses for the purposes of this thread. Initial purchase, accident damage should in my opinion not be included.

bfloyd4445 said:

I guess the thread should have been started with a list of the things considered operating expenses for the purposes of this thread. Initial purchase, accident damage should in my opinion not be included.

Click to expand...

Well, that would have been a different thread. The original poster posed:
In other words, what are all the costs associated with our boating. And let those that follow on later decide what's appropriate for them.

So acquisition cost, disposal cost, insurance cost, repair cost, operating cost, and on and bloody on - those are all the true costs of boating and someone would be well advised to aware of all of those costs before buying a boat.

As has been observed in this thread, many of these costs can be traced back to the size and value of a boat - and this would be a great time to throw in that other maxim that one should buy the smallest boat - in both size and dollar terms - that meets their needs.

refugio said:

So acquisition cost, disposal cost, insurance cost, repair cost, operating cost, and on and bloody on - those are all the true costs of boating

Click to expand...

Agreed. I am far too afraid what the calculation might reveal to actually do it. In this area, "ignorance is bliss".

bfloyd4445 said:

I guess the thread should have been started with a list of the things considered operating expenses for the purposes of this thread. Initial purchase, accident damage should in my opinion not be included.

Click to expand...

Then you have to define "operating cost" vs "ownership cost." The way it was explained to me by the GB dealer we got our boat though as well as in many subsequent articles and conversations on the subject with brokers and whatnot, annual "ownership cost" includes everything it costs to own the boat except finance payments if you're making them.

That is the only definition I use when conveying to someone what sort of ongoing costs they will be facing after they buy a boat regardless of whether they finance it or pay cash.

"Operating costs" tend by the definition of "operating" to imply the costs of doing just that--- making the boat go. So fuel, maintenance, equipment upgrades or replacements, repairs, and so forth. But NOT moorage, insurance, groundpower if you have to pay for that, state registration fees, and the other costs that are associated with owning the boat but not with making it go.

So to me talking about annual "operating costs" can be misleading to a potential boat buyer because the non-operating components of ownership cost can actually add up to a pretty big number every year. So I prefer to include everything other than finance payments and talk only about "ownership costs."

I know it seems like just semantics but the less confusing it can be to a potential boat buyer, particulary one new to this kind of boating and boat, the better.

I believe it is helpful to inform "what they are getting into" owning a boat. All perspectives are helpful.

seems everyone has valad points. To handle this properly is impossible because each individual is a unique case. However, just what we have been doing except for when we have gotten sidetracked by certain people is still going to be of value to prospective boats owners. Most people don't have a clue as to the total expense involved untill they take the plunge. Hopefully this thread will be of use to open eyes before jumping into the financial hole of boat ownership.

bfloyd4445 said:

seems everyone has valad points. To handle this properly is impossible because each individual is a unique case. However, just what we have been doing except for when we have gotten sidetracked by certain people is still going to be of value to prospective boats owners. Most people don't have a clue as to the total expense involved untill they take the plunge. Hopefully this thread will be of use to open eyes before jumping into the financial hole of boat ownership.

Click to expand...

Yea - BUT, if too many newbies read all the expenses mentioned here we might end up scaring them off and then end up with the true graying of pleasure boaters! LOL Well... we'll at least have lots of room in the waterways!

Art said:

Yea - BUT, if too many newbies read all the expenses mentioned here we might end up saring them off and then end up with the true graying of pleasure boaters! LOL Well... we'll at least have lots of room in the waterways!

Click to expand...

hummmmm'''''''........that aint a bad idea. But you know, the fact is there is no expense with owning a bnoat, there is only the chore of other forced expenses that keep one from spending even more time on the water. You know things like health insurance, taxes, honey do's, etc. I've never regretted a single dime i have spent on a boat but i do often regret having to pay taxes etc. Shoot, I've been know to even spend $$ i don't even have on boat stuff without giving it a thought. But i assure you i think about every dollar i spend on taxes etc.
And thats the truth

188 Posts and no mention of Yacht Club dues? Does anyone pay club dues above and beyond their stated berthing costs?

FlyWright said:

188 Posts and no mention of Yacht Club dues? Does anyone pay club dues above and beyond their stated berthing costs?

Click to expand...

Yes, but the yacht clubs in our marina don't have or supply moorage. So while we are members of a club there is no moorage associated with membership. So our dues are just $70 a year.

bfloyd4445 said:

hummmmm'''''''........that aint a bad idea. But you know, the fact is there is no expense with owning a bnoat, there is only the chore of other forced expenses that keep one from spending even more time on the water. You know things like health insurance, taxes, honey do's, etc. I've never regretted a single dime i have spent on a boat but i do often regret having to pay taxes etc. Shoot, I've been know to even spend $$ i don't even have on boat stuff without giving it a thought. But i assure you i think about every dollar i spend on taxes etc.
And thats the truth

Click to expand...

Well put!

FlyWright said:

188 Posts and no mention of Yacht Club dues? Does anyone pay club dues above and beyond their stated berthing costs?

Click to expand...

In the Bay Area, many yacht clubs have their own marinas. Their berth fees are low and can offset club dues, assuming they have a vacant berth that can accommodate your boat.

Club membership is essential if one races sailboats.

FlyWright said:

188 Posts and no mention of Yacht Club dues? Does anyone pay club dues above and beyond their stated berthing costs?

Click to expand...

I think I pay about $50/month, but next year I'm a 30 year (life) member and won't pay dues after that!

But the dues cover more than just the rights to moorage - our daughter got married at the club ($300 to rent the entire facility), we go to regular social events there (and have had the club chef cater events for us).

And belonging to a yacht club means we get free moorage at our club's 8 outstations and 40 or so clubs with which we have reciprocal moorage.

Plus when we visit Vancouver we get to eat at Royal Van:

refugio said:

I think I pay about $50/month, but next year I'm a 30 year (life) member and won't pay dues after that!

Click to expand...

Sounds like a great deal for the club's founders ... creating a need for and burdening new/additional members.

markpierce said:

Sounds like a great deal for the club's founders ... creating a need for and burdening new/additional members.

Click to expand...

Damn - you ever look on the "bright" side?

refugio said:

Damn - you ever look on the "bright" side?

Click to expand...

Yes, all the time.

FlyWright said:

188 Posts and no mention of Yacht Club dues? Does anyone pay club dues above and beyond their stated berthing costs?

Click to expand...

Just joined a club in BC. Initiation was $100 and annual dues of $150. Obviously no moorage but a modest shared clubhouse, a couple of guest slips in a marina, a few social events and modest cruise and sail racingprogram. And, the big one, reciprocal privileges at 50+ clubs from Olympia to Alaska. Hard to turn down that kind of value.

to me the reciprocals are the highest advantage of clubs, but then I've yet to take advantage of commercial marinas' docks, often associated with restaurants.

back East where I am...many clubs are $3500-$6000 per year, almost no docks but nice buildings ....I would love it for the reciprocal membership benefits...but hard to justify that kind of money for an eating/drinking club.

The JOY of a commercial looking lobster boat (not lobster "style" yacht) is many commercials will allow a free overnight along side tie up.

Always good to ask if they are going out in the AM, or one is liable to wake out with the fleet.

You guys sure know how to take the passion out of boating with all those calculations and conditions. For me it's totally different...find a boat I like in my price range, buy it and enjoy makeing it work.

jeffnick said:

You guys sure know how to take the passion out of boating with all those calculations and conditions. For me it's totally different...find a boat I like in my price range, buy it and enjoy makeing it work.

Click to expand...

That's pretty much what I posted on post #30.

Although I keep receipts and records, I don't add all the boating related expenses up to get an annual figure. Whatever it is, the enjoyment and peace is worth more than what I spend on the boat.

Click to expand...

If I had to, I could come up with a close figure. I don't have to so I don't.

i know i am late to the party but thats how it is..
slip: $6K
Insurance: $1200
Diver/zincs: $1000
Maintenance and upkeep - improvements: average $4000/year

hours and fuel is all depending how much time you use.
i dont think we run the boat more than apprx 100 hrs/year but we spend much more time aboard.

as a side note, if you have to turn over each dime then you probably cannot afford a boat.
best advise i ever got was somone here who said dont spend your money on additional gadgets and stuff you dont really need, spend it on fuel and go enjoy boating.

The "Thread Creep" showed up(I need to borrow Don's picture for him ). The Mod team felt it best to split it up and get this thread back on topic... Kinda

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s51/where-bottom-split-$-thread-8066.html For those of you creeping into the super-natural mystics of boat pricing.

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s51/energy-cost-etc-split-annual-numbers-8065.html Would be the place to creep into fuel price, oil exploration, shale deposits and the inevitable environmental/Geo political ramifications of same.

We now return you to your normal posting

CPseudonym said:

The "Thread Creep" showed up(I need to borrow Don's picture for him ).:

Click to expand...

Here you go. Nothing too good for our stellar moderators.

Thanks Don.

SomeSailor said:

I'd love to know what the TRUE cost of ownership is for say a nice Nordhaven, or Kady Krogen in the 40' range.

Click to expand...

Costs for that size can be almost nothing up to more than the boat is worth.

Just for grins, change the feet to meters and the numbers take a big climb ... up to around $1.3 million per year for a boat that doesn't charter.

I'd love to know what the TRUE cost of ownership is for say a nice Nordhaven, or Kady Krogen in the 40' range.

Click to expand...

Since we cannot agree on what the phrase "the TRUE cost of ownership" actually means, it would be impossible to calculate.

rwidman said:

Since we cannot agree on what the phrase "the TRUE cost of ownership" actually means, it would be impossible to calculate.

Click to expand...

This true cost thing is halarious!

If we want to find out the "true cost" we just need to ask our wives, they know.

I think I'm going to try it on my wife and let everyone know how it comes out.

Here's what I'll tell her...

SLIP FEES: $2700
INSURANCE: $2300
MISC MAINTENANCE: $2000
FUEL: $2000

I can see it now... "Look honey my boating hobby only costs $9,000 a year."

Then she'll ask... "But what about all the money the boat cost?????"

Then I'll tell her that the "true cost" of boating doesn't include what we paid for the boat.

Nope, it won't work for her, and it won't work for me either.

The price you paid for the boat may not seem like much if its a small number, but many here have a quarter, or a half million dollars wrapped up in their boats. Thats real money, and it has a real cost.

A quarter million, invested at 5% = 12.5K per year, or over a thousand a month in potential income.

I do not regret the money I've spent buying my boat, but I am aware of it. It is real money, and it is more than all of my other boating related expenses combined.

Greetings,
Mr.ksanders. PLEASE tell me where I can get a 5% interest rate on my savings these days!