Your annual $ numbers

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markpierce said:
Yeah, and the Coot's property tax is equivalent to that on my home. The good news is that the boat's tax will decrease over time as the state depreciates its value to offset the rising value/tax of the home.
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In California it depends upon the county. When i was moored in Sacramento county i paid property tax on my boat but when i moved to San Joaquin county no property tax on my boat. I've been in Oregon for ten years so the info is ten years old but i dont think its changed as i still own property in ca. in both those counties
 
CW said:
A very interesting read, devoid of the common blanket statement: "It costs 10% of the purchase price annually."
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I think that's a good rough average figure for a boater, particularly a new one, to get a basic idea of how much owning a (used) boat of the type most of us have will cost.. It's a good number for the initial, "What can I afford" question.

But as we have seen there are an almost infinite number of variables, so beyond that vary basic "Can I afford to do this?" calculation the 10% figure does not have much relevance when you start running numbers for a specific boat.
 
bfloyd4445 said:
yep, no personal property tax on my boat. Remember i mentioned that wasback before 2000
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Well, in Contra Costa County I continued to pay property taxes for thirty-plus years on my pocket Cutter through this year because I sold it last year.
 
markpierce said:
Well, in Contra Costa County I continued to pay property taxes for thirty-plus years on my pocket Cutter through this year because I sold it last year.
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i was nailed with that. Sell your boat at the first of the year and you pay the tax for the whole year. What a rip off

that reminds me. I seem to remember owning boats in Sacramento county for years with no tax then one day getting a tax bill....think that was just after prop 13. was that in the early seventies or late sixties?
 
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I believe prop 13 was early 80s. Maybe late 70s. Guess I could google it. LOL. 1978 per google search.

just to break down the number I posted, slip fee inc. electricity is less than $6000 of that. Prob around $5000 could be considered "upgrades".
 
Pineapple Girl said:
I believe prop 13 was early 80s. Maybe late 70s. Guess I could google it. LOL. 1978 per google search.

just to break down the number I posted, slip fee inc. electricity is less than $6000 of that. Prob around $5000 could be considered "upgrades".
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6000 is a lot for electricity. Were u using electric heaters?
 
For our 1984 Californian 34; 100 -150 hrs avg seasonal use. Fuel @ 10gph $4000; slip, $2600: Insurance $1200; haul/wax/shrinkwrap, etc $1200. I do the oil changes, etc. For now, its worth every dollar
 
I failed to include my slip electricity. It's typically under $10 per month. Looking at last month's bill now, it says $7.92 plus $3 for ice. I don't include food and drink costs in the cost of boating since we would eat and drink on land also.

I suppose I should include bait and tackle costs for fishing. Actually, the bait costs are minimal and are normally shared with fishing friends on board. Fuel burned for fishing is also a shared cost. Tackle and high dollar gear costs were paid in the past and only consumables like line, weights, hooks and swivels need periodic replenishing. Those costs are minimal.
 
Electricity is not included in our monthly slip fee. In the summer we are running only the battery charger and the only power being consumed by the boat in its slip is by the refrigerator. So the cost is minimal. Between the end of November to the beginning of April we run two heaters in the boat, one in the engine room and one in the aft cabin. While they are set to the lowest setting with the thermostats halfway up, the power bill is $25-$30 a month.

There is no charge for fresh water use in the marina nor is there any charge to use the pump out dock or the portable pump out carts that are stationed throughout the marina. There is no charge for oil/lubricant/coolant disposal in the two recycling depots in the marina.
 
As we virtually never stay at dock, nearly always cruising to hang on the hook, and unplug our boat from dock when we're not there, our elect cost is less than an avg of $4 per month. Water is free, as is pump out.
 
Art said:
As we virtually never stay at dock, nearly always cruising to hang on the hook, and unplug our boat from dock when we're not there, our elect cost is less than an avg of $4 per month. Water is free, as is pump out.
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so you dump sewage into the bay just as san francisco does? Used to be fantastic oyster beds in the bay untill they were polluted my city sewage dumping.
Not that a few boats are an issue to me but cities that violate the law and do it is.

Best wishes
B
 
bfloyd4445 said:
so you dump sewage into the bay just as san francisco does?
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Don't think that's what Art is saying here. I think he's saying that there is no charge for using whatever pumpout facilities he uses. The situation is the same in our marina as I described in my earlier post.
 
Marin said:
Don't think that's what Art is saying here. I think he's saying that there is no charge for using whatever pumpout facilities he uses. The situation is the same in our marina as I described in my earlier post.
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ah, maybe i'm mistaken then. At the mention of sewage in the bay San Francisco pops in my mind and the variance they have to dump untreated sewage in the bay which sets me off.
I apolojize for my jumping to conclusions. Thanks for straightening me out
Best wishes
Britt
 
I've never smoked, rarely drink, and never divorced. How in the world do I justify spending the money for the boat?
 
LarryBud49 said:
I've never smoked, rarely drink, and never divorced. How in the world do I justify spending the money for the boat?
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Look at all the money your kept from bars, tobacco companies, divorce lawyers and alimony. You should have the biggest boat here!
 
LarryBud49 said:
I've never smoked, rarely drink, and never divorced. How in the world do I justify spending the money for the boat?
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Because spending the money on the boat has prevented you from doing all those life-debilitating things because you didn't have the money to do them. So the boat has proven to be a great investment in your lifestyle, health, and marriage.
 
bfloyd4445 said:
ah, maybe i'm mistaken then. At the mention of sewage in the bay San Francisco pops in my mind and the variance they have to dump untreated sewage in the bay which sets me off.
I apolojize for my jumping to conclusions. Thanks for straightening me out
Best wishes
Britt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/your-annual-$-numbers-7842-4.html#post115330
Don't think that's what Art is saying here. I think he's saying that there is no charge for using whatever pumpout facilities he uses. The situation is the same in our marina as I described in my earlier post.


Thanks, Marin... owe you one!

Britt – Always good to put mind in gear before lips/fingers in motion. Yes, by free “pump out” – I mean free at our dock and free where we fuel up. If our 30 gal black water tank gets loaded while at anchor, which has occurred twice in two years, there is a roving “pump out” service that is just a phone call away and shows in a few hours while servicing other boats’ needs. $40 for each time... didn’t feel that minimal cost need be added to our overall annual cost; I call it an incidental expense that simply fold into other costs mentioned in my breakdown on post # 13 of this thread’s first page.
 
Can we please keep this thread on topic? I was thinking when I created it that it would be a nice one stop place for the basic fixed costs for others to learn from. Thanks!
 
Daddyo said:
Can we please keep this thread on topic? I was thinking when I created it that it would be a nice one stop place for the basic fixed costs for others to learn from. Thanks!
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Sorry, Daddyo. The thread creep has shown up again

img_115392_0_6af893214c5f4d13fcbac6f34e8f7705.jpg
 
I suspect that the 10% of purchase price rule-of-thumb will only give an approximation for boats in the range of a few tens of thousands to a few hundred thousand. This may well be 80% of all pleasure boats though.

At the bottom end it will be more than 10%, at the top end I just have to guess (not my league) but I would expect the % will be lower, in part because those boats are newer as well. This is why its good to see some real numbers for annual costs.
 
Some ownership numbers I happen to remembe:

Replacement of engine mounts on both engines--- two days for two mechanics, parts plus labor cost about 100/hr, total $4,000.

Fabrication and installation of new exhaust systems including new elbows, custom-made fiberglass lift mufflers, and muffler mounting platforms, about $5,000.

New battery installation including replacing two 8Ds with 6 6vdc golf cart batteries, associated installation and wiring costs, about $1,200.

Complete re-pitching, re-diametering (is that a term?), and balancing props, about $650 total..

Replacement of one prop shaft, installation of larger split couplers on both shafts, alignment adjusting, about $2,500.

Streightening the other prop shaft, including removal and replacement and engine alignment, about $700.

Replacement of all the strut-mounted cutless bearings and shaft packing (done when prop shafts were already out of the boat), about $1,000.

Rebuilding toilets several times over the last 14 years, about $200 per rebuild kit.

Re-grooving and re-seaming main deck (12 years ago), $3,000 fixed bid cost, we paid an extra $500 because the shipwright ended up having to spend more time on the job than he'd anticipated.

New radar/plotter, new stand-alone plotter, three new radios, new loud-hailer/intercom, antennas, etc.,probably close to $10,000 overall.

New anchor windlass, about $4,000 (we did the installation and wiring).

New anchor, just shy of $1,000 seven years ago.

Injection pipe replacement and installation labor, about $500.

New raw water pumps to replace stock raw water pumps and pump drive couplers, and installation labor, about $1,000.

New motor for dinghy, about $2,000.

Haulout, pressure wash, prep, and bottom paint cost (normally every two years), about $1,500.

Labor cost for yards, diesel shop, electrical shop, etc. are right around $100/hr these days.
 
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Marin said:
Some ownership numbers I happen to remembe:

Replacement of engine mounts on both engines--- two days for two mechanics, parts plus labor cost about 100/hr, total $4,000.

Fabrication and installation of new exhaust systems including new elbows, custom-made fiberglass lift mufflers, and muffler mounting platforms, about $5,000.

New battery installation including replacing two 8Ds with 6 6vdc golf cart batteries, associated installation and wiring costs, about $1,200.

Complete re-pitching, re-diametering (is that a term?), and balancing props, about $650 total..

Replacement of one prop shaft, installation of larger split couplers on both shafts, alignment adjusting, about $2,500.

Streightening the other prop shaft, including removal and replacement and engine alignment, about $700.

Replacement of all the strut-mounted cutless bearings and shaft packing (done when prop shafts were already out of the boat), about $1,000.

Rebuilding toilets several times over the last 14 years, about $200 per rebuild kit.

Re-grooving and re-seaming main deck (12 years ago), $3,000 fixed bid cost, we paid an extra $500 because the shipwright ended up having to spend more time on the job than he'd anticipated.

New radar/plotter, new stand-alone plotter, three new radios, new loud-hailer/intercom, antennas, etc.,probably close to $10,000 overall.

New anchor windlass, about $4,000 (we did the installation and wiring).

New anchor, just shy of $1,000 seven years ago.

Injection pipe replacement and installation labor, about $500.

New raw water pumps to replace stock raw water pumps and pump drive couplers, and installation labor, about $1,000.

New motor for dinghy, about $2,000.

Haulout, pressure wash, prep, and bottom paint cost (normally every two years), about $1,500.

Labor cost for yards, diesel shop, electrical shop, etc. are right around $100/hr these days.
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So, do tell Marin - You still feel 10% annual ownership to boat price covers the bases?
 
We've had the boat 14-plus years now. Some years have been a lot more than 10% of the purchase price and some far, far less. So overall, and based on a very rough approximation, I would say yes, it seems to be averaging out in the neighborhood of 10% of the purchase price per year.

It would be more than 10% per year average if we hired all the work we do ourselves out at today's shop rates, however. But in talking to other owners on our dock and in our club, I think we do about as much work ourselves as they do. I only know one person who hires virtually everything that is done to his boat out. On the other hand, his is much newer GB, so perhaps his ownership costs are still only about 10% of the purchase price.
 
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I greatly appreciate Marin's post #98. It adds substance to miscellaneous boating expenses that certainly add up and are not necessarily recurring.

Looking at yachtworld, it's easy to find listed boats (same make/model, similarly equipped) where the price of the boat can vary by a factor of 3 to 4. If older boat A is $100,000 and newer boat B is 400,000, I have a hard time thinking that boat A will only require $10K per year and boat B will require $40K per year.

This has been a great thread to see real world expenses from folks who have been doing this for a while. Marin's post #98 adds real world numbers, and adds much to the value (for me) of this discussion.

Chris
 
Sometimes it can be summed up as....boating versus yachting..

then there is....

Cruising/active boating versus dock condo...

Self repair versus marina repair...

S the numbers can be all over the map...a new boatowner more needs to nail down his/her abilities and lifestyle more than anything to get a realistic answer.

Once that is done one of our models might be close...or maybe not.
 
There is a wide range of a varying scale conundrum regarding using any specific percentage annual use cost “average” (i.e. 10%) to the original “fully paid for” purchase price of a boat; 1st time boat owners need to understand cost comparisons on a similar condition and style used 38’ boat (new boat cost comparisons and financed boat cost comparisons are a whole different boat-cost-game):

1. Used 38’ boat purchase price of $30K at $10K average annual usage cost... i.e. docking, repair, fuel, new items etc fees = 33.3...%
2. Used 38’ boat purchase price of $60K at $10K average annual usage cost... i.e. docking, repair, fuel, new items etc fees = 16.5...%
3. Used 38’ boat purchase price of $100K at $10K average annual usage cost... i.e. docking, repair, fuel, new items etc fees = 10.0...%

I use these simple figures (on 38’ boats that are in similar condition, using same annual use fees, but with widely varied purchase prices) to let newbie boat owners understand that annual use fees as an annual percentage of their original boat cost can vary hugely by their percent yet remain in a basically similar monthly dollar expense range. Today’s unsettled boat-value market can amount to wide swings in purchase price of similar boats, often depending on location of boat and PO’s financial/life condition. However, with that said, the annual use fees may stay in similar dollar-cost range due to pressures on yacht harbors to keep their prices attractive.

On post # 13 of page one in this thread I depict my general expenses that come to Total Annual Cost of $7,700 for $148 Bucks Per Week to own and enjoy our craft out and about on the water. Our Tolly, needing little in upgrades, was in great condition from day one of our ownership and we keep her that way. Our purchase price was affordable... due to PO’s circumstances/events. So, our reasonable $7,700 annual use-cost is far from 10% of the original boat price to us.
 
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