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The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
- Joined
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- Ocean Alexander 50 Mk I
I am re-powering my OA 50 at present. It came with twin Cummins 270 HP, although some boats were also sold with FL 120's. The latter are often regarded as underpowered. I think the Cummins was way overpowered. Or actually, at a silly midpoint - too much for displacement cruising, and not enough for planing on the semi-displacement hull. The hull would need around 850 HP to plane well based on calculators I've used. So I chose to repower halfway between the FL 120's and the Cummins 270's. I am putting in JD 201 HP's. It is still overpowered by factor of 2. Seems to me that having that 'reserve power' is prudent. You don't have to use it, and I expect that I seldom will.
I would be quite happy with just one engine, so I had the yard cost out changing to a single 400 HP. It was more expensive than the new twins. Part of the problem is I would need new shaft log and rudder, gearbox, shaft and prop, and need to remove and fair the existing shaft logs and rudder areas. Also, the large single engine was very pricey. By staying with carefully chosen twins I can retain my old gears (but reconditioned them) and props.
I would be quite happy with just one engine, so I had the yard cost out changing to a single 400 HP. It was more expensive than the new twins. Part of the problem is I would need new shaft log and rudder, gearbox, shaft and prop, and need to remove and fair the existing shaft logs and rudder areas. Also, the large single engine was very pricey. By staying with carefully chosen twins I can retain my old gears (but reconditioned them) and props.
bfloyd4445
Guru
willards are sailboat hulls turned into trawlers in my opinion after looking at one. They have all the disadvantages of a sailboat and none of the advantages in my opinion.
bfloyd4445
Guru
Sorry, but my BS detector just went off!
Anyone who gets into a boat and goes nowhere and back is "wasting a non renewable resource unneccessarily". Even if you go someplace, stay for a while,and return home in a boat you are wasting non renewable resources. If you really want to conserve resources, you will stay home or at least take the train or carpool.
Say you want to cut costs or fuel consumption for your own benefit and that's fine. Say you're doing it for the environment or "future generations" and it's BS.
Nothing personal, that's just the way it is.
not true. One of the reasons i have always used fuel carefully is that i want to have it for fun things like cruiseing. Cruiseing is good for one mental health and so in that respect it is money well spent. Driving a large suv like you are on a race track commuting back and forth to work alone is a despicable was of fuel. Enjoying a leisure crusie in the islands of fishing is a much much better way to use fuel dont you think?
bfloyd4445
Guru
good choice. Your fuel costs will be slightly more most likely but the engine will live longer and will have that reserve for heavy seas. I've played with the numbers for years and for fuel economy its a small engine but the down side is it dosent live as long cause its workin hard.
I have an old tractor rated at 29hp at 2000 that i run at 16-1800. At that rpm u cant stop the thing it will just keep ploughing ahead even if ahead is a blackberry forest 12 feet tall. Its an old ford with a zillion hours on it and it just keeps going. I would love to see what that engine would do in a boat. The old lehmans remind me of that engine except they are 6 cylinders and this one is three. I can do 40 acres in a day then fill up with maybe 3=4 gallons of D. Tank only holds maybe 5.5
psneeld
Guru
Except the big one you are worried about...they are very economical under power as well...
don't even talk about tractors here....you might as well be talking about the now defunct space shuttle program, it's engines and what kind of fuel economy and longevity they had...
RT Firefly
Enigma
Greetings,
Well, MY space shuttle.......
Well, MY space shuttle.......
bfloyd4445
Guru
Except the big one you are worried about...they are very economical under power as well...
don't even talk about tractors here....you might as well be talking about the now defunct space shuttle program, it's engines and what kind of fuel economy and longevity they had...
sorry if i ofended you
but the fact is many of the engines in our boats are tractor engines
bfloyd4445
Guru
The willard that i saw was a very nice boat extremely well built but it was shaped like a sailboat and inside room was skimpy for a 30 foot boat. I think they are likely to be the most fuel eficient trawlers out there when compared to other vessels of there size.
bfloyd--- Ironically, for the kind of boating you profess to wanting to do--- offshore cruising and fishing--- a Willard is probably one of the best choices you can make. Far, far better than the GB you keep talking about. If my wife and I were interested in offshore cruising-- by which I mean in the open ocean even if it's just a few miles off the beach--- a Willard would be on our short list of boats to use for that. A GB wouldn't even make it to the long list.
Nomad Willy
Guru
Floyd wrote;
"willards are sailboat hulls turned into trawlers in my opinion after looking at one. They have all the disadvantages of a sailboat and none of the advantages in my opinion."
World's apart. And obviously not your world. But in your defense all FD hulls are somewhat similar and FD power boats look a whole lot different than other power boats below the WL. FD power boats tend to have a very long keel while sail boats have short keels. Sailboats are very "pointy" at both ends while power boats are full and wide astern and full in the bow. The Willard 30, 40 and 36 are 100% power boat. Some have sails but ther'e not even motorsailers.
"willards are sailboat hulls turned into trawlers in my opinion after looking at one. They have all the disadvantages of a sailboat and none of the advantages in my opinion."
World's apart. And obviously not your world. But in your defense all FD hulls are somewhat similar and FD power boats look a whole lot different than other power boats below the WL. FD power boats tend to have a very long keel while sail boats have short keels. Sailboats are very "pointy" at both ends while power boats are full and wide astern and full in the bow. The Willard 30, 40 and 36 are 100% power boat. Some have sails but ther'e not even motorsailers.
psneeld
Guru
Naw...you didn't offend me...
Who here has tractor engines in their boat??? I know a few tractors that may have boat engines in them....maybe...
bfloyd4445
Guru
I am aware of this thank you very much. There are much better designs than GB and Defevers for offshore use for sure but i just like the looks and feel of them. Besides, there are not many forty foot willards out there to look at. Maybe the 40 would have the confiduration i like but i think it will also have the rounded stern which is what makes it better for offshore. right? I'll have to see if i cant find one to look at. I did see ne for sale but way way outra my price range.
psneeld
Guru
You are kidding right??? There are plenty of full keel sailboats. There are plenty of Full displacement powerboats with no keel. And if you truly look around...there are sailboats with hull shapes very similar to Willards.
Here's pics of a Willard sailboat and powerboat...very similar to me..
Attachments
bfloyd4445
Guru
i like the looks of the one on the lift must be a forty?
Assuming your question is not tongue-in-cheek, we do. The FL120's base engine is the Ford of England Dorset diesel. It was originally designed to be a truck engine in larger trucks like dump trucks and semi-tractors, proved to be a total failure in that application but saved itself from discontinuation by proving to be an ideal engine for relatively low load, constant rpm service for things like pumps, compressors, generators, and cranes. From there it was a short step to the agricultural world where it was used in Ford tractors and, in particular, combines. In fact in England this engine became known by many as the "Ford combine engine."
This was in the late 50s and early 60s. The same attributes that made it ideal for industrial and agricultural service made it ideal for low-powered marine service and it caught the interest of a number of engine marinizers like Lehman.
bfloyd4445
Guru
maybe i should have stated that many marine diesel engines systems had their roots in farm eqiupment. Their are lots of JD powered boats. Havent seen any combine engines in boats <IH> ?
The FL120 is a combine engine. In fact, when buying a spare coolant pump for this engine you have to make sure you don't get the "combine" pump as opposed to the "regular" pump. The combine pump has an interference issue with the belt pulley on an FL120. You can correct this through the careful use of a Dremel tool to relieve the interference, but it's easier to get the right pump to begin with.
Nomad Willy
Guru
psneeld,
Those pics are both of 30' Willards. The top pic is a Horizon and the bottom is an 8 Ton. The latter is actually a sailboat and has a much bigger keel to enable her to sail to windward. But the sailing Willards aren't really sailboats. They are powerboats modified to sail to some degree giving the manufacturer the ability to expand their line. Your observational skills are too lacking to be telling me to look around .....
And by "full keel" I mean forefoot to full aft.
Tractor engine? My Mitsubishi is found in many tractors.
Those pics are both of 30' Willards. The top pic is a Horizon and the bottom is an 8 Ton. The latter is actually a sailboat and has a much bigger keel to enable her to sail to windward. But the sailing Willards aren't really sailboats. They are powerboats modified to sail to some degree giving the manufacturer the ability to expand their line. Your observational skills are too lacking to be telling me to look around .....
And by "full keel" I mean forefoot to full aft.
Tractor engine? My Mitsubishi is found in many tractors.
psneeld
Guru
Yeah...my observational skill may be lacking but to say there is a substantial difference in those hulls is rediculous...sure there are a few differences due to sail/power....but both hulls are designed to slip through the water with a given buoyancy requirement and minimal resistance with THAT designer believing that given type shape is what a boat should be....as opposed to other type designs.
Your often incorrect guesses on vessel speeds (and efficiency but that's another post) both on Marin's and Mark's pics leads me to believe your skills on understanding boat design aren't any better than mine or anyone else's and for you to post this:
"World's apart. And obviously not your world. But in your defense all FD hulls are somewhat similar and FD power boats look a whole lot different than other power boats below the WL. FD power boats tend to have a very long keel while sail boats have short keels."
Well let's just say I couldn't let it go....
Your often incorrect guesses on vessel speeds (and efficiency but that's another post) both on Marin's and Mark's pics leads me to believe your skills on understanding boat design aren't any better than mine or anyone else's and for you to post this:
"World's apart. And obviously not your world. But in your defense all FD hulls are somewhat similar and FD power boats look a whole lot different than other power boats below the WL. FD power boats tend to have a very long keel while sail boats have short keels."
Well let's just say I couldn't let it go....
Attachments
Nomad Willy
Guru
Very nice looking sailboat and it does look somewhat like my Willard. But now-days sailboats have a very low prismatic coefficient compared to powerboats. If you look down at them from above they have a pronounced diamond shape. Even more so as viewed from below. I'm assuming we can be birds or fish. Skinny ends and a fat midsection. Very very different that the typical trawler w extremely full and wide ends and quite different than FD powerboats like a Krogen or a Coot.
Now that you've got me think'in about it you may have extreme observatory powers psneeld. There is the very existence of the 8 ton Willard sailboat and look at my "railings" on Willy. They are the wire type mostly found on sailboats. The 8 Ton has'nt got a raised pilothouse like most motorsailers. It's got the flush low cabin of most sailboats. I think you may have uncovered something. I'll bet the man that designed the W30 and W40 Willard spent most of his NA career designing sailboats. The Willard 36 is by W Garden and I much prefer it. And the 36 has no resemblance to sailboats either. I'm going to be talking about this on the Willard Group site.
But the tone of your last post makes me think of taking you off my best buddy list. Maybe that's just your nature. And NO you just don't let things go do you? I can though and I'll show you.
Now that you've got me think'in about it you may have extreme observatory powers psneeld. There is the very existence of the 8 ton Willard sailboat and look at my "railings" on Willy. They are the wire type mostly found on sailboats. The 8 Ton has'nt got a raised pilothouse like most motorsailers. It's got the flush low cabin of most sailboats. I think you may have uncovered something. I'll bet the man that designed the W30 and W40 Willard spent most of his NA career designing sailboats. The Willard 36 is by W Garden and I much prefer it. And the 36 has no resemblance to sailboats either. I'm going to be talking about this on the Willard Group site.
But the tone of your last post makes me think of taking you off my best buddy list. Maybe that's just your nature. And NO you just don't let things go do you? I can though and I'll show you.
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JD
Guru
Nomad Willy
Guru
JD,
Totally right I think but the WL view from underneath may still be quite (I think I like that word) diamond shaped. But when the boat is sailing (especially hard) the WLL is maximized and that obviously has great importance.
sugar scoop .... must refer to some aspect of the hull shape aft???
Totally right I think but the WL view from underneath may still be quite (I think I like that word) diamond shaped. But when the boat is sailing (especially hard) the WLL is maximized and that obviously has great importance.
sugar scoop .... must refer to some aspect of the hull shape aft???
JD
Guru
The original hulls that got the steps off of the transom or in fact through the transom were referred to as a sugar scoop. Like the one mom had in the big bin of flour or sugar. They added water line under sail.
bfloyd4445
Guru
sugar scoop.....good name for em
BruceK
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I thought it was a Lehman until you got to the 3 cyl. bit. Might still be one, cut in half.
bfloyd4445
Guru
was the lehman a british design? I think this 3cylinder was originally a british design as well so u could be right. All i know is its a darn good engine. I changed the oil one day then was working in the pasture glanced down and the oil light was on. I then drove back to the barn a 1/4 mile away where my tools and oil were before stopping to ascertain the problem. When i got there i discovered no drain plug. When i had filled it my neighbor dropped by to jaw a bit and i forgot to tighten it. Well i willled er up with oil installed a new plug and went back to work expecting the engine to start clattering and die any minute. She had been driven at least 1/4 mile at full throttle with zero oil in the crankcase. That was three years ago and the old girl is still working just as hard as ever. Amazing engine system
