Thoughts on Anchors

manyboats said:

Marin, I think your windlass cleat would be plenty strong enough for any anchoring you would probably do in the next 10 years. And I'll bet your winch is fastened to the foredeck as securely as your anchoring cleat on the deck.

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We prefer a v-bridle snubber to a single line snubber so securing one of the snubber lines to the windlass cleat would actually be an awkward setup as opposed to each line coming through a bow hawse and to a deck cleat right there.

The windlass and teak mounting block are secured with long bronze rods threaded at each end. The rods run thorugh the windlass base, a base plate I had made by PYI, the laminated teak block, the deck and a pair of heavy stainless backing plates under the deck. The whole works is "sandwiched" together with the fasteners on both ends of the four bronze rods.

In addition we had a heavy stainless brace fabricated that connects the front of the teak block to the heavy angle brace that supports the back end of the pulpit. This prevents the block from "leaning" forward under the weight of deploying or retrieving the anchor.

When we bought the boat the original windlass was secured the same way with four rods but the backing "plates" were thin teak strips and there was no forward brace. As we learned when we were checking out the boat in California prior to the sea trial and surveys, when the anchor was pulled in there was enough play in the windlass/block mounting that the back of the block would lift up off the deck by a quarter inch or so. We corrected that after taking delivery of the boat--- that's when we had the forebrace made up--- but the new windlass is secured much more solidly now.

But we still don't put any significant strain on the windlass or pulpit when setting or breaking out the anchor. We put that load on the deck cleats. And once we're at anchor, there is still no load on the pulpit or windlass since the snubber lines are secured to the deck cleats. There are no leverage issues with the deck cleats where there would be with the cleat on top of the windlass.

But you're probably right, the thing is probably plenty strong enough for what we do. But since we don't need to use it there is no need to test the theory.

The IG 36 has an enclosed box type structure on which the windlass is mounted. Last year the whole structure, cracked, rotted, with signs of past patching, had to be rebuilt,suggesting a windlass puts out substantial loads.
To get a fair run for the snubber to the mooring cleat, without wearing the fresh paint off the aft top edge of the structure, I screwed a short length of half round s/steel along its edge.BruceK

New to the trawler world, but have been anchoring in the Caribbean for 30 years with every type of anchor. Now that everything that I own is at the end of my anchor rode I have the best, with the 2nd best on the other roller. Read up on the Rocna. Science has entered the anchor world. The CQR plows the bottom so one can plant sea grass. The Bruce is great for catching big rocks.

BruceK said:

The IG 36 has an enclosed box type structure on which the windlass is mounted. Last year the whole structure, cracked, rotted, with signs of past patching, had to be rebuilt,suggesting a windlass puts out substantial loads.
To get a fair run for the snubber to the mooring cleat, without wearing the fresh paint off the aft top edge of the structure, I screwed a short length of half round s/steel along its edge.BruceK

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I think some of the rot issues might also be related to how the water and plant debris is contained during the anchoring process. This was a concern with mine when I converted from a Powerwinch with rode over the top of my pulpit box to a windlass on top of the box with rode passing through the box.



The box is secured by four 5/8" threaded rods which run from the top stainless plate to my 12"x10" stainless backing plate. I had a 4 inch diameter stainless tube fabricated and welded to the top mounting plate. This sealed tube runs through the box and backing plate to both guide the rode and contain the water and debris. Three additional pulpit mounting bolts attach to the bow caprail. I use the washdown whenever needed and have noticed no problems so far, but I'm keeping an eye on it.

Capt.Paul said:

New to the trawler world, but have been anchoring in the Caribbean for 30 years with every type of anchor. Now that everything that I own is at the end of my anchor rode I have the best, with the 2nd best on the other roller. Read up on the Rocna. Science has entered the anchor world. The CQR plows the bottom so one can plant sea grass. The Bruce is great for catching big rocks.

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Many of us did...we just don't believe the marketing hype...we believe in real world experiences which are all over the map suggesting no clear cut science...new or not.

Not talking for everyone here...just passing along a condensed generalization.

Use the word best with anchors and you will ...well...I'll let you find out the hard way...

The Lofrans Tigres I installed 2 years ago, the 45# Delta is self launching once the rope is off. There are controls at the bow and on the flybridge. I usually remove the safety rope approaching the anchorage and lower from the flybridge.
Steve W.

Capt. Paul,
Rocna rules! We have been trying to purge all anchor brands from the forum that are'nt but many (most all) of us have dug out little flukes into the sand and resisted such direction. It's the anchor on the Windhorse and one could hardly doubt the wisdom of the men that brought a boat w such a leading edge of technology .... I mean ... Just look at thing ... It puts all the rest of us into the dark age. I was temped to touch one of the Windhorse decendents w the idea that some great maritime knowledge would befall me and perhaps I could rise above other mariners and leap tall masts w a single bound. In w the new and out w the old. Full speed ahead for science is here and will relieve us from ....... well you prolly get the picture and if you need any more information to this end ... wallow in the Trawler Forum archives and get every opinion imaginable. We let anybody in the archives too.
Seriously Paul the "science" your'e talking is pure hype and advertising. I'm not doubting the Rocna's a good anchor though. Essentially every anchor designer makes what he thinks is an improvement (or 2 or 3) on his favorite anchor, gives it a name and tries to market same. The only anchor designer that truly did anything scientific is the Frenchman that designed the Spade. He experimented (w scientific method I believe) and found that the concave surface generates the greatest amount of drag or resistance. Mushroom anchors and many others arrived at the same conclusion but probably not very scientifically. The Rocna is/was a rip-of/copy/decendant of the German anchor called the Bugel. But if you really want an anchor whose design is most scientific look at the XYZ. But as I've said before the greatest variable in anchoring without a doubt is the bottom conditions where the anchor is placed. How it's placed is another topic.

Steve it looks like you have doors that open to the anchor locker. For chain that looks like a really smart set-up.

manyboats said:

The Rocna is/was a rip-of/copy/decendant of the German anchor called the Bugel.

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In the interest of accuracy, not to start another this-vs-that debate, the Rocna has some significant differences from the older Bugel. Peter Smith wrote an article way, way back about how he arrived at the Rocna's design. He had no qualms about crediting the other designs that he incorporated.

First of all, his initial motivation was to create an anchor strictly for his own use on his own boat that would perform more reliably than what he had been using in the southwestern Pacific. So (he wrote) he looked at other anchor designs and combined elements which he thought made good sense. So the rollbar and automatic on-its-side positioning came from the Bugel, the spade fluke design from something else (don't remember what), and the basic shank design from something else (don't remember what).

He combined these elements and then made changes that he felt would improve the overall performance of the combination. For example he came up with the "skid plate" idea for where the rollbar is welded to the sides of the fluke to improve the leverage when the anchor is on its side and pulled by the rode to knife the fluke sideways down into the bottom.

He had the resulting design fabricated and found that it worked the way he'd hoped on his own boat. IIRC, it was only after people he met during his sailing that inquired about the anchor on his bow and then expressed an interest in getting one of their own that he began to think about perhaps creating a business to fabricate and sell the design.

Now how the anchor and its development are positioned or spun today I have no idea. We got ours years ago, it works as advertised, and other than discussions on this forum I pay no attention whatsoever to anchors anymore beause I don't need to. So I'm not up on how the Rocna is being promoted or positioned today by the current owers of the brand.

But in the begining way back when, Smith made no bones about where he got the design ideas that he combined with ideas of his own to create what became the Rocna.

manyboats said:

Steve it looks like you have doors that open to the anchor locker. For chain that looks like a really smart set-up.

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Thanks, that would be nice but they are two lockers which hold some lines, floats and the wash down valve and hose. Access to the chain locker is through a door in the fwd cabin.
steve W

I chain hole cover made from aluminum scrap to keep water (most of it) out of the chain locker.

Keeping rain and spray from running down past the chain into the locker can be a challenge. Our original windlass had a cool bronze vertical hawse for the chain with a cover. But that fitting wouldn't work with the Lofrans Tigres that we replaced it with so my wife made a full cover for the Tigres. Outer layer is regular Sunbrella with an inner liner of Sunbrella vinyl so it's waterproof.

Juneau, Alaska - July:
"I always sleep with one eye open when anchored in Handtroller's Cove during a blow; mostly because of other
boats dragging their anchors and running into us. I must say in the two and a half years we've owned the
ALLWEATHER we've never dragged anchor even with two boats tied together. We operate the boat year round and
have weathered some pretty nasty stuff.
"Early the next morning about 5:00 a.m. I got up just in time to fend a 28 foot flying bridge Bayliner. He was heading
for shore so Denise and I tied them off to the ALLWEATHER. The wind was blowing so hard I couldn't wake them by
shouting so we gave them a shot with the foghorn. They were very surprised to find themselves tied off to our boat
but glad just the same. We had coffee together while the wind whipped us around but our Bruce anchor never
slipped an inch. We meet a lot of people that way on the ALLWEATHER."
Art and Denise Chase


I found this in the Allweather site. Don't often see such a testimonial for Bruce anchors.

Eric Do you still have your reel/drum type anchor winch, or did you get it sold before your move south?

Eric: Instead of going by Manyboats, maybe we should call you "ManyAnchors".

Larry,
Dos'nt everybody have 6 anchors? I only carry 3 or 4.

This one .... yes.

Steve said:

I chain hole cover made from aluminum scrap to keep water (most of it) out of the chain locker.

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Cheap, simple, attractive and functional.

Very well done Steve!