Propane Bottles

I am planning on carrying two 40 lb propane bottles on my back deck. Actually it’s the top of the aft cabin. My boat is a Mainship 36 DC and is not unlike most 36 aft cabin models. I would like to bracket them against the short bulkhead section which is the salon bulkhead that extends up to the fly bridge.
Does anyone here carry propane bottles and how do you do it and what kind of brackets or tie-downs do you use?

Tony: That's a lot of propane. You converting the Mainship to propane? A 20 lb cylinder (barbecue size) lasts us about 2 months of cruising full time.

I know those boats well and I think that would be an excellent place to secure propane.
A "C" shaped bracket against the bulkhead to rest the bottles, then strap or bungy them against the bracket. They should be fine.

Most Grand Banks boats have a propane locker on the flying bridge under one of the bench seats. It is sealed to prevent propane from seeping down into the boat's interior and there is a vent that directs any escaped propane overboard.

We have two aluminum horizontal tanks mounted side by side in the propane longer. Their feet are secured with wing nuts to wood pads sealed to the floor of the locker.

I think the best way to visualize a safe place to store propane is to think of it as a waterfall of cold air. If you mount a bottle in position-X is there any way propane could flow down from that spot and enter the boat? Is there a window that if open could admit the flow of propane spilling down the cabin side? Could the wind blow it through a window or other opening? Could it land on the deck and flow down that to a vent or some other opening in the boat?

If propane coming from a tank can spill down and flow off the boat then that mounting spot is a safe one.

"I am planning on carrying two 40 lb propane bottles on my back deck."

How will you refill them? Cruising you may not have a car.

These can not be swopped at the local 7-11 so need to be taken toa and from the refill pump .

They are heavy!!! and will need walking up docks , and down when filled.

Perhaps 20# would work easier at getting refilled.

We carry (5) 20# units . This gives 3-4 months of refrigeration and cooking .

THe folding style shopping cart is fine for one full bottle on most docks.

Thanks guys.
We will be cruising from Tx. to Mobile Bay (Al) and up to northern Ky. This coming spring. This will probably be spread over a 3 month period. We will be doing a lot of visiting and touristy things along the way including anchoring out a lot.
My plan is to have a gas stove, gas hot water (instant-on) and a BBQ. If we have some cool nights, I have a portable gas heater. Two 40 pounders may seem like a lot but I already own 2 pretty new ones from my previous shop.
The bottles will be outside on the aft sun deck. The area will have a canvas enclosure which is not gas tight because of the openings along the deck so trapping gas fumes is not going to be a problem. The portable gas heater uses up a lot of gas and I mean a lot!.
I plan on buying or making a manifold to be located on the deck so all of the gas lines will go from outside the boat cabin, directly to the appliance inside the boat with no “T’s”, “Y’s” etc.
I have had gas stoves before and am familiar with all of the safety devices including the remote on-off switch in addition to the sniffers and automatic shut-offs.
The reason I want two bottles is because I don't want to run out of gas in the middle of nowhere. This way, when one tank is empty, I have at least another month or so to find a place to fill up.
Thanks for the info guys.
The more I think about it, two 20’s would probably be a much better option. They would certainly be easier to handle if I have to bum a ride.

Here is a link to the ABYC propane installation requirements:

http://www.abycinc.org/committees/A-01.pdf

You don't have to follow these requirements, no propane police will visit and condemm your boat for violating them, but they represent the safe way to install a propane system on a boat so if you're concerned for your safety and the safety of your companions or family, you might want to consider using them as a guide to your installation.

Be sure that any appliance you install is intended and approved for marine installation. Same with hoses and fittings.

I would think 20# bottles might be a better approach as well. You can always walk those up a dock and get them filled. Most every marina supports getting them filled in one way or another.

In case anyone doesn't know, most of the "exchange" places don't fill the tanks to 20 lb. Somewhere on the sign or tank they will let you know, but it's usually 15 lb, not 20.

They are not actually charging for more propane than they arw supplying, but if you're expecting 20 lb and get 15 lb, you might run out sooner than you planned on.

If you have someone fill your tank, you get what you pay for.

rwidman said:

.........If you have someone fill your tank, you get what you pay for.

Click to expand...

Exactly right.
I know they are not supposed to actually fill to the top. I dont remember the cut-off point but it is shy of the full amount. Most places I have gone to, they weight the tank before filling since they already know the empty weight. Then they fill to a certain point and stop and charge by the gallon or pound, whichever. I have been charged both ways.
I have never swapped tanks because I keep mine in brand new condition.

Tony B said:

Exactly right.
I know they are not supposed to actually fill to the top. I dont remember the cut-off point but it is shy of the full amount. Most places I have gone to, they weight the tank before filling since they already know the empty weight. Then they fill to a certain point and stop and charge by the gallon or pound, whichever. I have been charged both ways.
I have never swapped tanks because I keep mine in brand new condition.

Click to expand...

I've had tanks filled before but not recently. The last time I needed propane my plan was to have the cylinder refilled but once I took a look at it, I decided to exchange it instead.

One problem with a proper propane locker is it traps moisture and promotes rust on steel tanks.

Tony B said:

I know they are not supposed to actually fill to the top. I dont remember the cut-off point but it is shy of the full amount.

Click to expand...

All refilled bottles need to be equipped with an OPD (Overfill Prevention Device). This is indicated by a triangular shaped valve. Exchanged cylinders normally have between 15# - 17# in them. With an OPD installed, they cannot fill further.

SomeSailor said:

All refilled bottles need to be equipped with an OPD (Overfill Prevention Device). This is indicated by a triangular shaped valve. Exchanged cylinders normally have between 15# - 17# in them. With an OPD installed, they cannot fill further.

Click to expand...

The exception to this is a horizontal bottle, by which I mean one that was made to be mounted horizontally. Not a BBQ bottle fitted with homemade legs or anything like that. There is a waiver (we have a copy from the propane company we use to refill bottles) that exempts purpose-built horizontal bottles from needing an OPD.

New horizontal bottles will have an OPD but if you have a horizontal bottle made before the cutoff date it is still legal to refill it. We have one OPD horizontal bottle in our propane locker and one non-OPD bottle. They were quite expensive so it's nice to continue to be able to have the old one refilled.

That's true. I had one in an old camper van and they would still fill it. Reminds me I should have kept that before selling the van.

Greetings,
Mr. Marin. What is this "cut off date" for tanks with an OPD? I'm assuming tanks so equipped are set up for the OPD to function in a vertical position as this is the attitude in which they are filled or need they be filled in the horizontal position (doesn't seem likely)?
I know some juristictions will not fill a vertical steel tank over X years old but what about the aluminum ones?

This may help:

This fact sheet provides information on the requirements for Overfilling Prevention Devices (OPD’s). OPD’s were required in the 1998 edition of NFPA 58, Liquefied Petroleum Gas Code. The requirements were modified in the 2001 edition to exempt certain horizontal cylinders.
What is an OPD? An OPD is a safety shutoff device incorporated into the filling valve of a propane cylinder. It is intended to prevent overfilling of the cylinder, which can result in propane release, fire, and possibly injury. It is required on all propane cylinders between 4 pounds and 40 pounds propane capacity. The common gas grill cylinder holds about 20 pounds of propane.

How do I know if my cylinder has an OPD?

All cylinders manufactured after September 30, 1998 were required to have an OPD. If your cylinder has a triangular valve wheel, it has an
OPD. If it has a round wheel, it does not have an OPD.

What happens if my cylinder does not have an OPD? Cylinders not equipped with an OPD can be filled until either:
· April 1, 2002, or
· The cylinder is requalified.
Requalification is required by the U. S. Department of Transportation for all cylinders 12 years after the date of manufacture, and 5 years after the last requalification. The date of manufacture is stamped on the cylinder collar.

When requalified, the requailifcation date is stamped on the cylinder collar near the date of manufacture with an “E” after the date.

Who can requalify my cylinder? Many propane dealers will requalify cylinders. The cylinder valve will be replaced with a new valve incorporating an OPD. There is a charge for requalification. It may be more economical to replace the cylinder with a cylinder equipped with
an OPD, especially if it is rusty.

What about horizontal cylinders? The 2001 edition of NFPA added an exemption for horizontal cylinders manufactured before October 1, 1998 do not need an OPD, and can be continued in use. They must be requalified when required. They must have label to indicate that they are not equipped with an overfilling prevention device. Anyone can make the label.

Are any other cylinders that do not require an OPD? Yes. Cylinders used for industrial trucks, and cylinders used for industrial welding and cutting gases are not required to have an OPD. These cylinders must be labeled with their use.

I prefer refilling my own bottles,at least I know where they have been. You pay for what goes in.
In Australia bottles are stamped with a build year and can`t be used after 9 years. But you can have them checked,the valve gets replaced,and if ok certified another 9 years. Cheaper than a new bottle.
Some leading insurers here insist on a marine gas fitter`s certificate every 5 years or so that the installation is compliant and not leaking. The "expert" who set up and certified mine used a mix of incompatible threads so after a while it leaked at the two bottle set up on the flybridge. I reworked it replacing the wrong parts.Some expert!

Greetings,
I think my tanks have the triangular knobs BUT were purchased @ WM about 4 or 5 years ago. I'll have to check. Thanks for the information.

The places that do exchanges will accept non-OPD equipped cylinders as trade-ins. I paid the premium price to swap mine out for new cylinders rather than dealing with buying new or re-qualifying.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr. Marin. What is this "cut off date" for tanks with an OPD? I'm assuming tanks so equipped are set up for the OPD to function in a vertical position as this is the attitude in which they are filled or need they be filled in the horizontal position (doesn't seem likely)?
I know some juristictions will not fill a vertical steel tank over X years old but what about the aluminum ones?

Click to expand...

RTF--- The cut-off date as I used it in my post is the date after which all new propane tanks (with possible exceptions) had to be fitted with an OPD. At some point after this date it became illegal to refill vertical propane tanks made without an OPD.

Propane tanks also have a date after which they must be re-certified. According to the propane dealer next to our studios where I fill our boat and home tanks the certification process takes about five minutes.

Our two Worthington aluminum horizontal 2.4 gallon tanks were made as horizontal tanks. As such, they are exempt from the OPD requirement although the newer of the two has an OPD. The propane service next door fills them with them standing vertically. The other nice thing is that they apparently have a way of filling propane tanks, including standard OPD BBQ tanks so they are totally full. As they would have been before OPDs were used. So if you have a five gallon tank, they can put five gallons in it.

Below is a tiny off-the-web photo of the type of tank we installed in our boat. When we bought the boat it had a standard 5-gallon BBQ tank on its side on home-made feet. Actually very dangerous as I learned later. We changed to the Worthington tank at the same time we changed out the original stove/oven, which was within two weeks of us buying the boat. A few years later after running out of propane one too many times while cooking a meal we added a second identical tank only this new one has an OPD. Worthington horizontal aluminum tanks are not cheap which is why we are glad there is the OPD waiver for the old one.

One other thing. If you have a vertical non-OPD tank that you want to keep-- in our case it was a Worthington aluminum 1.5 gallon vertical tank in a rail mount for the boat's BBQ--- you do not necessarily have to get rid of it and replace it with a new OPD tank. We found a place in Seattle--- a welding shop in Ballard--- that for about $25 removes the tank's old valve and installs an OPD valve. The tank is then checked and certified. May not be worth doing with a steel backyard BBQ-type tank. But an aluminum tank can be pretty pricey so it was a whole lot better to have it re-valved for twenty or thirty bucks than to plunk down a hundred-plus for a new tank.

....The other nice thing is that they apparently have a way of filling propane tanks, including standard OPD BBQ tanks so they are totally full. As they would have been before OPDs were used. So if you have a five gallon tank, they can put five gallons in it....

Click to expand...

Propane cylinders should not be filled more than 85%. Liquid propane can expand 5-10% just on temperature.

This came from the Suburban Propane web site:

Why isn’t my tank filled to 100 percent capacity?

Your propane is delivered and stored in liquid form. Propane liquid, for example, will expand (become a gas) nearly 17 times more than water over the same temperature increase. As a result, tanks and cylinders are never completely filled with propane liquid. Tanks are filled to about 80 to 85 percent of their capacity. This leaves a space above the liquid, which allows the propane liquid to expand freely due to changes in temperature.

20 lb of propane is 20 lb of propane regardless of what percentage of the tank is filled.

Propane is a liquid when stored at pressure. Each gallon weighs about 4.2lbs. They measure them in pounds because you need to account for the expansion of the head gas. Vapor pressure of propane varies GREATLY. You can easily add 100psi between shade and sun. One of the worst things you can do to a propane tank is over fill it.

The propane dealer we use (Suburban) does not fill portable tanks by weight. They fill them by amount (gallons and fractions thereof).

They all do. It's pumped in under pressure, vented by a relief screw and stops when the OPD valve closes. It's not possible to overfill them in that way.

I use a 10 pound composite propane tank just for my grill. Very light weight, much cheaper than aluminum and the best part is you can see how much fuel is in the tank right through the bottle.

We've been jammed!

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