Anchor comparison for Eric

Reply to: Do you live on anchor year round?

We have lived on our boat since 1983. Nearly all that time was in
Alaska and there are almost no places in SE Alaska where we haven't
hung our anchor.
We consider all the time we are on a dock to be wasted time. Most often when that occurs we are maintaining the boat or for personal health.

We have seen astonishingly fierce storms and always striven to never
see another. The weather reports some years ago were not very accurate but have dramatically improved since. Our horrible weather experiences have become less frequent as a result.

That being said, I haven't been trying to sell anyone on my anchor system. Rather, I had thought that this forum was looking for the experiences of others to help all have a better perspective of anchoring in general.

I am quite satisfied with my anchoring but realize others might not find it appropriate for themselves. buzzard

Bigger is Better ?

Buzzard,
And you think you're 140# anchor is big. This Navy anchor is 500#.
Took this pic after some guys on the float in Craig told me about a guy w a 500# anchor. We were in a discussion about how big was big enough. We were aboard a 30' Willard that had a 65# Forfjord. I said and thought that if the anchor was any good he should'nt need a 65 pounder. I was say'in that was overkill and they said the'd show me overkill ... and they did.

We are planning to anchor more as we head further north with less marinas. We have not anchor very often and only on calm warm summer days. Being we are not of the bald/silver haired crowed yet, and being 58 ft we usually have to anchor in 50+ ft as the shallow more protect anchorage are taken. If the windless could handle a 100+ lb anchor and all chain we would have one, but I do not want to over strain the windless as a new one cost 2 to 3 grand. If I was to replace the windless it would be with a hydraulic drum like most commercial have.

Different brands/kinds of anchor are better for different bottoms, so we carry a plow QCR and navy Danforth/Forjord anchors. Certainly scope is a major factor so the pull is straight and not at an angle up. So I am very interest in what works in the PNW, and so far the Forjord with all chain seems to be the answer. However the new Ronoc with its roll bar looks interewting. I took a walk and noticed that many have a pipe weld to the front plate to make it higher so the flukes dig in more of any angle, and some of the flukes where wider. You can see that 500# has been modified. Any suggestions, I would be interest in hearing.

It took me a long time to understand why anchoring on the East cost is more popular. The reason is the water is shallow and the tide is a few ft. The PNW water is deeper/thicker, falls off quickly, and the tide swings are 10 to 20 ft. So what ever the depth is I add 15 ft. So we need at least another 100+ ft of chain.

I would be ecstatic if we could anchor in 10 to 30 ft of water most of the time.

Phil Pill,
You wrote: "You can see that 500# has been modified." There are subtle differences in Navy anchors but I fail to see where this one has been modified and I'm the one that took the picture.

The best anchor for you could be the Manson Ray. It's quite expensive but is not cast like other claws. There was a test done comparing the Ray to the Manson Supreme and the Rocna some time ago and the Ray outperformed them both. Also it was shown to have good short scope performance ... definitely better than the other two. Because you have a heavy boat does not mean that you need a heavy type anchor ... it does mean that you need high holding power. And since you have a big boat a heavy type anchor means you'll need a very heavy anchor so a lighter "type" anchor w high holding power could be much lighter and easier to stow and handle. Also dependability could or should be even more important than holding power. If you can stow it gracefully on your bow the SARCA very likely (probably) will be even better than the Ray.

Here is the test link:
http://www.manson-marine.co.nz/Anchor Tests/Practical Sailor Large Anchor Tests.pdf

Phil Fill said:

I would be ecstatic if we could anchor in 10 to 30 ft of water most of the time.

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The only time we ever put out more than 100' of line on anchor was when we were in over 100' of water, generally over a dive site. Otherwise the shallows where you anchored for the night were closer to 10' to 15'. Depending on the conditions, wind mostly, you'd have 50' out, max.

buzzard said:

JD, RAMBLER, It seems apparent you haven't lived on anchor during the winter in SE Alaska. Winds are commonly 40-45 knots and at least 3 to 4 times a year rise to storm force. Buzzard

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Chill out there Buzz. Did you not see the happy face. And no I have never been to Alaska nor do I want to anchor out in 100 MPH winds. If I did I can do that right here in NC and at least the temperature would be above 75*.

Next thing your gonna tell us is you have a Blue OX as a pet. (Notice the happy face) Maybe you do.

Look at the very front of the 500# anchor where a round pipe looks to have been welded angle plate. I notices the same modification on some of the Forjords. It seems to me if a high/tall round bar was welded to the, QCR, Bruce, most anchor would benefit. Also did you notice how pointed the tip and sharp the edges are. on the Ray, supper and Rocan?

The three anchors in the test and recommend for the Eagle are 110# to 130# which is not much lighter then the 145# Forjord. So I don’t see where they are significantly lighter also the test was done in rock/stone which a plow would be better, QCR/Bruce/Rocna/Ray/Mason. That is why some boat have both kinds of anchors, plow and navy.

I don't see the mod Phil. Here's a better look. I notice that the shank is square like a Forfjord and don't recall if that is true of most Navy anchors.

When I talked of lighter types I'm referring to something more like a Fortress that has a very high blade area to weight ratio. Once an anchor is set blade area is almost directly proportional to holding power. Anchor weight is basically to get the anchor set. Navy anchors, Forfjords, Dreadnoughts and Claws have a very small blade area per pound and are thus very inefficient. So if a 75# Rocna is right for your boat (weight/holding power wise) then you may need a 225# Forfjord to be able to hold your boat as well.

Forjord Anchor

I am releatively new to anchoring in the PNW (2 summer now) on our 45 boat. Most of the time we are on the hook in coves ranging form 30-60ft of water. We spend ~80 days on the hook somewhere. I have read almost ever article concerning type, placement, limitation of the current anchor available to us boater.

Having said this, I have paid attention to what other boaters have hanging from their pulpid, observe their setting technique and most of all the holding of said anchor.

I have personally not lost anchor set but have only experienced 30-40 kt wind with ~ 4ft swell. I always have at least 3:1 if not more depending on swing room. I always listen to the weather report for wind direction, speed and if an antisipated wind direction change will happen while I am asleep.

I have spent sereral night/morning on anchor watch because I was awaken by unexpected wind change and velocity.

I am very happy with the 65# Forjord that I set. I have 210 ft of 3/8" chain and 210' of rope.

And again I have learned more about anchor types and techinque thanks to experience on this forum.

Well according to the chart that is on their web page. Winter weather anchoring, up to 40' a #4 (40#), up to 45' a #6 (65#), up to 55' a #8 (95#), up to 65' a #12 (145#), up to 90' a #18 (210#).

Forfjord Anchors - Products

knucklebuster,
Glad you've had good experiences anchoring, that you've learned from us and hope you'll stick around. The fishermen here in SE really like the Forfjord but I prefer the Dreadnought. About 25% of the fishermen have the Dreadnought and all are very old I'm sure and I see most are very rusty. The Dreadnought has it's faithful following too. I wish they sold them now. And they all say alls fine until the winter gales reach 60 knots but judging from all the Forfjords w extended flukes all must not be well lots of the time at least in mud and up in SE there is lots of mud bottoms. I've been in 50 knot winds w gusts to probably 60 w an 18lb anchor and all went well. Had to reset because another boat dragged and that set was successful too. But our boat is only 30' and there was no waves. Everybody's anchoring experience seems different. Some ..... no many have anchored for many years w normal size Claws and CQRs and never had a problem. And lots of things happen in this world that aren't likely. The government dosn't require us to have a certain size and type of anchor so we are responsible for our own safety and I'm sure glad of that. I have two anchors that I'd be comfortable w in a 50 knot blow. And I still don't have what I consider to be the best all-around anchor ... SARCA. Don't know why I should buy one now as I'm well covered w what I've got. One should always carry a spare and I've got plenty for that too.
I'm glad you talked about anchoring at 3-1 scope and thereabouts. Many here think that less than 5-1 is irresponsible and foolish. I'm sure most all are on the east coast. I've anchored in over 75' 4 or 5 times and never had enough scope but lucky me it didn't blow. If it had I'd sure feel better if I knew I had an anchor that could make a reasonably good showing on short scope.

1st pic is the extended fluke ForFjord.
2nd pic is of a good example of a Dreadnought.
3rd pic is of a Navy anchor on a yacht in Craig.

Phil Fill,
I see this Navy anchor has the square shank.

You'd think the Dreadnought would be at a disadvantage against the ForFjord due to its much smaller fluke area.

I think Marin that the shank part of the fluke gets into the act almost or as as much as the heart shaped ends. That would give it about the same fluke area as the Forfjord. The fluke shanks have an "I" beam shape that probably provides a lot of resistance that probably results in holding power. When buried deeply in a soft bottom those ramp like pads that give the flukes their angle of attack probably offer a lot of resistance also (the top pad). Quite likely it's mud performance is excellent. Pure speculation on my part though. In heavy mud one may need a very good washdown system. This anchor also has the widest throat angle I've ever seen and the tips of the heart shaped ends are sharper than I originally thought. The one time I used mine it set so fast there was no setting operation. I just took up the slack and pulled back. Chris gave a bit more throttle than usual and immediately the rode became very tight. No doubt it was fully set. I'm very impressed w this anchor but I've only used it once. It's the heaviest anchor I've got at 35# and it's all I can comfortably pull w my capstan. Retrieving my 20lb anchors is much easier.

Here are two more examples. Most are rusty like these.

buzzard said:

We have lived on our boat since 1983. Nearly all that time was in
Alaska and there are almost no places in SE Alaska where we haven't
hung our anchor.
We consider all the time we are on a dock to be wasted time. Most often when that occurs we are maintaining the boat or for personal health.

We have seen astonishingly fierce storms and always striven to never
see another. The weather reports some years ago were not very accurate but have dramatically improved since. Our horrible weather experiences have become less frequent as a result.

That being said, I haven't been trying to sell anyone on my anchor system. Rather, I had thought that this forum was looking for the experiences of others to help all have a better perspective of anchoring in general.

I am quite satisfied with my anchoring but realize others might not find it appropriate for themselves. buzzard

Click to expand...

Thank you Buzzard for sharing your practical experience. As you may have noticed, not everyone is interested in reality based analyses of what works and makes sense, and what doesn't, but it's great to get your experience. Given the length of chain you carry, I assume you have a reel? Also, what scope are you comfortable with when anchoring? If there is an advantage to newer designs, it seems to be in their ability to hold with lesser scope, but I'd like to hear your opinion.

Is everyone OK/comfortable?



Thank goodness no one is staying overnight here.

buzzard said:

.....I haven't been trying to sell anyone on my anchor system. Rather, I had thought that this forum was looking for the experiences of others to help all have a better perspective of anchoring in general.

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Unless it's there and I missed it, I'd like to know the size of your boat. We use all-chain rode as do most cruising powerboats in this area by my observation. This may have more to do with the ease of using chain with a windlass than the owner's belief that all-chain rode is inherently better for this area. But being just a 36', 30,000 pound boat, we don't carry all that much of it. 200' although were we buying the chain today we'd get 250.'

But we've seen storms come through our home area (Bellingham Bay) that if we had to anchor out in them 600' of chain could seem in our relatively inexperienced eyes to be too little. And at that point no anchor would seem to us to be too large.

As I've stated before my wife and I are not fans of the Bruce anchor. At least not in the small sizes that are used on boats like ours. But regardless of how I feel about the design itself, I'm curious how you stow it for use as a stern anchor? That's the problem with all the non-Danforth-type anchors--- they don't stow well other than on a pulpit or in some manner in which their bulky flukes can hang out into space.

We have a Fortress FX-23 for our stern anchor and we have it mounted in a transom-swimstep mount. But that's easy with this relatively flat anchor.

Answer to Marin

Marin, The boat weighs close to 50 tons based on the fact I was unable to be hauled out on a travel-lift rated at that capacity. The keel alone weighs 14000# and the boat is 55' in length and draws 9'. The hull alone (disregarding the keel depth) draws 4 1/2'. buzzard

buzzard said:

Marin, The boat weighs close to 50 tons based on the fact I was unable to be hauled out on a travel-lift rated at that capacity. The keel alone weighs 14000# and the boat is 55' in length and draws 9'. The hull alone (disregarding the keel depth) draws 4 1/2'. buzzard

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Well then 600' of chain and a big-ass anchor sure seems the smart way to go to me.

Answer to Delfin

Delfin said:

Thank you Buzzard for sharing your practical experience. As you may have noticed, not everyone is interested in reality based analyses of what works and makes sense, and what doesn't, but it's great to get your experience. Given the length of chain you carry, I assume you have a reel? Also, what scope are you comfortable with when anchoring? If there is an advantage to newer designs, it seems to be in their ability to hold with lesser scope, but I'd like to hear your opinion.

Click to expand...

Delfin, We have two large chain lockers (Aft and Forward) and usually base the scope applied on the prevailing and expected conditions. Also, one is limited, as you know, to staying within the limitations of the size of the bay. Also, the longest fetch must be considered to allow for the effect of sea size that might be experienced. The worst case scenario is an inaccurate weather prediction, unexpected high seas and storm force winds. Happened to us in the Kinnahan (Sp ?) Islands outside of Prince Rupert. I was forced to run into the seas all night and watched as the freighters to the SE of us dragged their anchors and reset them through the night. At that time I was using a 100# Danforth which did not hold due to the wild pitching of the hull with the incoming seas which swept the entire hull. A classically lousy night. buzzard

buzzard said:

Delfin, We have two large chain lockers (Aft and Forward) and usually base the scope applied on the prevailing and expected conditions. Also, one is limited, as you know, to staying within the limitations of the size of the bay. Also, the longest fetch must be considered to allow for the effect of sea size that might be experienced. The worst case scenario is an inaccurate weather prediction, unexpected high seas and storm force winds. Happened to us in the Kinnahan (Sp ?) Islands outside of Prince Rupert. I was forced to run into the seas all night and watched as the freighters to the SE of us dragged their anchors and reset them through the night. At that time I was using a 100# Danforth which did not hold due to the wild pitching of the hull with the incoming seas which swept the entire hull. A classically lousy night. buzzard

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Thanks Buzzard. The reason I asked about scope is that the Forfjord is recommended to be used with what I would call classical standards, that is 7:1, or thereabouts. Sounds like you don't use a hydraulic reel/drum like I see a lot of Alaskan boats using, frequently with a chain/wire combination, which makes the greater scope a little easier to manage.

I appreciate your relating your practical experience - which is always more useful than armchair speculation.

She can only pick up one at a time. If she could pick up all three, I would have bigger anchors. Actually it’s the windless that I am concerned about as that will cost 2 to 3 grand. If we did replace the windless it would be a hydraulic drum like most commercial's have.

Buzzard, I plan on cruising the Canadian inland passage and the Chalet Islands to hook up with a sister 58 in that area. Jim is an old salt retired captain that ran tugs/crew boat in that area and sort of lives off the land/sea. So its good to know and be prepared for the unexpected.

Interesting to play with the anchor size calculation and the Rode calculation by FF. Our 60 ft boat, with a 65# anchor, 175 ft all chain, medium sea bed holding should hold for wind speed of 30 to 40 knots. If the winds kick up to 60 knots the sea bed holding would have to be good and the rode 225+ ft. So the weight of the anchor is important, but so is the anchor rode length, the sea bed holding, and angle of yaw/swing.

Reply to: Phil fill

Good data! That's the way I assess my system also. buzzard

Phill Fill,
If you use the Forfjord your boat may be better off w a larger anchor. I have a friend in Alaska w a 65# Forfjord on a 30' Willard. It's overkill but very little. Fishermen w Forfjords and your size think a 125# Forfjord isn't big enough. Like the Claws they are usually used used oversized. A 65# Rocna on long scope would be fine I'm sure though as would many other high performance anchors.

The hassle with all chain , regardless of how long it is , is that under the highest load it is a bar.

With no stretch , shock loads are passed to the anchor.

I believe 50% chain 50% nylon is the "best" storm compromise.

As it makes for a easier time (lowest loads) for the anchor.

I sort of agree w the 50/50 Fred but with a rode over 275 to 300' or more 50/50 would be a lot of unnecessary chain. You'd rarely get any nylon out. I'd rather have a short length (about 25') of heavy to very heavy chain and lots of nylon. Ideally the first length of chain (6-10') would be studded. Longer lengths of lighter chain for areas where there is coral of course. And of course I know I'm wasting my words here as the ideal rode requires a reel winch.

manyboats said:

I sort of agree w the 50/50 Fred but with a rode over 275 to 300' or more 50/50 would be a lot of unnecessary chain. You'd rarely get any nylon out. I'd rather have a short length (about 25') of heavy to very heavy chain and lots of nylon. Ideally the first length of chain (6-10') would be studded. Longer lengths of lighter chain for areas where there is coral of course. And of course I know I'm wasting my words here as the ideal rode requires a reel winch.

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A 30' half inch snub line serves the same purpose and can be used with all chain in normal conditions, or a 3/4" 50' snub for gales. Either way, running out an extra load of chain after the snubber goes taut gives you the best of both worlds, IMO.

Delfin said:

A 30' half inch snub line serves the same purpose and can be used with all chain in normal conditions, or a 3/4" 50' snub for gales. Either way, running out an extra load of chain after the snubber goes taut gives you the best of both worlds, IMO.

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Mine too ...and thousands of world cruisers also....

I have an old heavy Northil anchor, 160 chain , close to 200' rode on the drum.

Pulling that stuff back on deck manualy when anchored in 100 feet of water SUCKS !

Talk about a work out.

OFB said:

I have an old heavy Northil anchor, 160 chain , close to 200' rode on the drum.

Pulling that stuff back on deck manualy when anchored in 100 feet of water SUCKS !

Talk about a work out.

Click to expand...

Yeah, my wife complains about it as well...

(about 25') of heavy to very heavy chain and lots of nylon

The problem is windlass cost/

Sure a nice 60 lb anchor would benefit from 25 ft of 3/4 or larger heavy chain, BUT if the windlass has to retrieve chain of that size it costs a fortune!!

I have deployed our hurricane anchor 90 Danforth with 7/16 chain with an extra line from the anchor to above the chain , just tied on, so I could pull on chain that does not fit the windlass.

But that is a special case , not for O'nite.

The low bow eye with a selection of light line , NOT long enough to reach the Prop is the low cost easy solution for most cruisers.