Steering Pump

LarryBud49 · Oct 17, 2012

We sprung a leak in our hydralic steering pump, lower helm, on our 1988 Marine Trader DC. For the trip home we capped the lines and steered from the bridge helm. It is an Hynautic steering pump, 251/501 system. The system has a separate reservoir. According to the marina mechanic the pump is shot, but the replacement is longer which will extend the wheel another 3 inches out. I'll be taking a look at this before he installs it. Also, the new one has it's own reservoir.

I am new to the boat and to trawlers. Has anyone had to replace a similar pump? I know my pump isn't made any more, but does it make sense that there is not a like-sized replacement? Also, will there be any problems adding this pump with it's own reservoir to the existing system with the separate reservoir?

I've been reading the forum every since we decided to purchase a trawler and have really learned a lot, and been entertained, too. I appreciate any advice you all can give.

RT Firefly · Oct 17, 2012

Greetings,
Is there room to mount the replacement pump on a 3" spacer?

rwidman · Oct 17, 2012

LarryBud49 said:
.............. I know my pump isn't made any more, but does it make sense that there is not a like-sized replacement? Also, will there be any problems adding this pump with it's own reservoir to the existing system with the separate reservoir?.

Why don't you contact the manufacturer of your pump and ask them both questions? Sometimes yard mechanics just deal with what they know and don't research as much as an owner might.

Also, it might be possible to repair or rebuild the pump or send it out to be repaired or rebuilt.

LarryBud49 · Oct 17, 2012

Don't know yet, I am meeting the mechanic in the morning to consider my options. I wanted to get some input so I would feel better prepared to discuss things.

LarryBud49 · Oct 17, 2012

The manufacturer, as far as I have been able to determine, is no longer in business.

rwidman · Oct 17, 2012

LarryBud49 said:
The manufacturer, as far as I have been able to determine, is no longer in business.

Who is the manufacturer or what name is on the pump? Some of these companies were bought up by other companies and parts or replacements may still be available.

FlyWright · Oct 17, 2012

I have an original 1977 Wagner steering system. After 35 years, both helms developed a leak. I had both pumps removed, rebuilt and reinstalled for about $550.

Over time, it's typically the seals that fail. Consider rebuilding rather than replacing. It worked for us.

LarryBud49 · Oct 17, 2012

Teleflex Marine has seal kits and looks like they took over. I have a call into them but they haven't called back yet. Looking at their products I haven't found an exact replacement, but they have behind the dash pumps that don't stick out any further. Will have to see why the local mechanic didn't look into Teleflex, they do have a computer at the marina I hope. Makes me feel a lot more "armed" when I talk to the mechanic in the morning. He said he did an exhaustive search for a replacement. He's the expert, just don't want to be totally stupid.

rwidman · Oct 17, 2012

LarryBud49 said:
Teleflex Marine has seal kits and looks like they took over. I have a call into them but they haven't called back yet. Looking at their products I haven't found an exact replacement, but they have behind the dash pumps that don't stick out any further. Will have to see why the local mechanic didn't look into Teleflex, they do have a computer at the marina I hope. Makes me feel a lot more "armed" when I talk to the mechanic in the morning. He said he did an exhaustive search for a replacement. He's the expert, just don't want to be totally stupid.

He may not be quite an "expert". While replacement is sometimes the easiest solution, in your case, repair or rebuilding leaves you with the original helm, not one sticking out 3" further than the original.

You should be able to get a second opinion from another mechanic in your area. Or from Teleflex.

CPseudonym · Oct 17, 2012

Put me in the second opinion camp. The pump should be rebuildable unless the casting is broken and obviously not by him. The 3" longer part is most likely one sitting on his shelf that he can not otherwise get rid of.

All marina mechanics do not have the same skill sets. The parts can not possibly be that unique. Pull the pump and take it to a shop that advertises pump repair. Many in my area are part of a larger industrial electrical shop. In my area they can remachine surface if needed.

LarryBud49 · Oct 18, 2012

Ok, went down to the boat this morning and talked to the maintenance manager. It was all a mis-understanding between the parts department and the manager. Parts does have the right replacement pump. I know that because researched it last night. And they have the right adapter kit for mounting behind the helm. That part is what the manager didn't know. Big todo over nothing, but I learned more about my new boat and about the systems, so all is good. Thanks everyone for your input.

rwidman · Oct 18, 2012

LarryBud49 said:
Ok, went down to the boat this morning and talked to the maintenance manager. It was all a mis-understanding between the parts department and the manager. Parts does have the right replacement pump. I know that because researched it last night. And they have the right adapter kit for mounting behind the helm. That part is what the manager didn't know. Big todo over nothing, but I learned more about my new boat and about the systems, so all is good. Thanks everyone for your input.

Good that everything is on track.

FF · Oct 19, 2012

It was all a mis-understanding between the parts department and the manager. Parts does have the right replacement pump.

In the future talk to the parts guy , forgetabout the "manager"

Third-Reef · Oct 19, 2012

My 88 FHB has hynautic steering and the rebuild kits are about $30 and instructions are on line. Myne has a H50 pump, the H50 is stampped on the pump.

Hynautic H-50 Helm Rebuild|Repair

Brooksie · Dec 14, 2012

My Wagner helm pump was weeping at the wheel shaft last year after 16 years. I was able to pull the seal out the front w/o removing the pump or the shaft from it using a pick. Matched it up at a good autoparts store, cleaned the recess, tapped it in using a deep socket as a tool. Did the second helm for good measure. Time 3 hrs. cost 4.95 including a spare seal to keep aboard. The seal was metric.

ancora · Dec 14, 2012

I did the same thing on my 26 year old steering pump. I'm thinkin' your mechanic saw a fat payday comin' his way.

Grand Caper Bill · Aug 26, 2013

I have Wagoner 700 series helms. I have replace the seals but the upper helm is still mushy. the ends are only slightly firmer than the operating region.
Does anyone know if these can be rebuilt? If so by whom?

FlyWright · Aug 26, 2013

Grand Caper Bill said:
I have Wagoner 700 series helms. I have replace the seals but the upper helm is still mushy. the ends are only slightly firmer than the operating region.
Does anyone know if these can be rebuilt? If so by whom?

As mentioned here, I had my Wagner removed, rebuilt and reinstalled by a local mechanic. Are you sure you bled the system properly? Maybe the FB needs to be burped.

Codger2 · Aug 26, 2013

FlyWright;175630 Are you sure you bled the system properly? Maybe the FB needs to be burped.[/QUOTE said:
The previous owner of my boat complained of similar problems (mushy helm, slow response, etc.) which is one reason he sold the boat. Feeble attempts (by him) to bleed the system bordered on the rediculous. After I closed on the boat, I had my mechanic come over with his clear vinyl hose, threaded fitment for the fluid fill and other gadgets manufactured by him to facilitate the bleeding operation. After hooking everything up and me turning the helm from side to side, (10 times?) he removed his hose, tightened everything up and left. That was in 2007 and I haven't had a problem since.

Responding to Flywright's question....It's a damn good place to start. Most people don't know how to properly bleed a hydraulic steering system. Air is the enemy and it can't be taken lightly.

kolive · Aug 26, 2013

Hello Brooksie,

We had our Wagner 700 series helm rebuilt by Hamilton Jet Marine in Woodinville near Seattle for our Willard 30/4. It was about 250.00 3 years ago.

Welcome to HamiltonJet Americas

Nice people to work with.

Keith Olive
1977 Willard 30/4
Kingfisher

1974 Grand Banks 36 Classic
#427

gwkiwi · Aug 26, 2013

Seahorse
The previous owner of my boat complained of similar problems (mushy helm, slow response, etc.) which is one reason he sold the boat.

Hope your PO isnt still on this thread after reading your process. I agree whole heartedly with you knowing when to do jobs yourself and knowing when to call a mechanic is key to enjoying boating.

Codger2 · Aug 26, 2013

gwkiwi said:
Hope your PO isnt still on this thread after reading your process.

He's not.

He sold everything here in SoCal and moved to parts unknown. Great guy, though!

Delta_JimS · Aug 26, 2013

I have always wondered if I should have a real procedure for Bleeding my steering. You see, it has always had a bit of a leak in the 3 years I have had her.(low priority) I made sure the fittings were not loose, and just mop up occasionally. Once a year, I carefully top off the upper Helm pump with an ounce or two, and then carefully replace the cap.

Have never had any qualms with the Bridge steering, as the originally hired Sea Trial captain did - he just took the Bridge, gave orders to stern-way, and headed out to take out the neighboring dock before he realized he had No Bridge steering at all!?!
Guess someone had forgotten to "top-off" for a few years.... forgot to tell him too...

She has never been to finicky about anything much that I can think of - pretty easy-going girl to take care of.

Steering Pump

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