rules of the road

[SIZE=+1]Test : Rules of the Road 1[/SIZE] Q1: INLAND ONLY You are navigating in a narrow channel & must remain in the channel for safe operation. Another vessel is crossing the channel ahead of you from your starboard & you doubt whether your vessel will pass safely. Which statement is TRUE?

5 short blasts.... while I'm the stand on vessel...slowing would be prudent if I could and maintain steerage.

Why isn't "Ram him" a choice?

psneeld said:

5 short blasts.... while I'm the stand on vessel...slowing would be prudent if I could and maintain steerage.

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I agree. Repeating the five short/rapid blasts may needed.

But I don't understand how the question is stated: "which statement is true."

As I understand the rules, no more than one torpedo from the starboard tube is allowed if the offending vessel has not crossed your bow, however if the boat is almost dead ahead both starboard and port tubes may be used.

Andy G said:

As I understand the rules, no more than one torpedo from the starboard tube is allowed if the offending vessel has not crossed your bow, however if the boat is almost dead ahead both starboard and port tubes may be used.

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A man after my own heart.

ex-MM1/SS Northern Spy

Here lies the body of one Michael O'Day. He died defending his right of way. Mike was right, dead right, as he sailed along. BUT, he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong!

Moral of the story... protect one's own assss; take diversionary maneuvers as may become necessary! Otherwise... carry on with rules o’ da road... err sea!

markpierce said:

I agree. Repeating the five short/rapid blasts may needed.

But I don't understand how the question is stated: "which statement is true."

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Mark if you look at the post using a computer (not a smartphone) you will see this is a poll. I had the same confusion looking at this on my phone.

No "choices" show up on my computer either.

There is nothing other than a horizontal line and his signature phrase after "Which statement is TRUE?"

I see no choices eithyer on my desktop office computer.

But, if it's already "ahead of" me, then it has the ROW as far as I'm concerned.

But my rule of thumb is to arrive alive.

I might consider popping a few rounds his direction though if they cut me off.

What'd I do wrong?

I suspect it's a trick question because of the "inland rules" comment, but my reaction would be to slow down or even stop to avoid a collision. My boat is the "give way" boat in my understanding.

What's not mentioned is the size of the boats. If it's a PWC, he gets five horn blasts and I continue full speed ahead. If the other boat is an aircraft carrier, I will slow or stop until it is out of the way.

The answer is 3 ...you MUST sound the danger signal...you are SUPPOSED to maintain course and speed until extremis ....you then take alternate action....

Rule 9 Narrow Channel...
"If in doubt, she shall sound the danger signal prescribed in Rule 34(d)."

Hmm I see the poll choices ABOVE the first post, right below the ad bar. . Maybe it's a software glitch that not all can see it.

Current results are 5 votes for #1 you must stop your vessel bc other vessel is stand on, 1 vote for #2 you must sound one short blast and turn to starboard, 8 votes for #3 you must sound the danger signal and 1 vote for #4 you must stop your engines and sound the danger signal.

It can only be 3...I'm pretty sure it never says in the rules you MUST stop you engines/vessel and you can't leave the channel for safe navigation It even says NARROW CHANNEL...so if you read rule 9...it pretty much gives the answer....

(d) A vessel shall not cross a narrow passage or fairway if such crossing impedes the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within such channel or fairway. The latter vessel may use the sound signal prescribed in Rule 34(d) if in doubt as to the intention of the crossing vessel.

I used to teach Captains licensing so I became very familiar with the way the USCG asked and answered questions...we had to teach as much how to answer as the actual material.

Rule 17- Action by Stand-on Vessel (a) (i) Where one of two vessels is to keep out of the way, the other shall keep her course and speed.
(ii) The latter vessel may however take action to avoid collision by her maneuver alone, as soon as it becomes apparent to her that the vessel required to keep out of the way is not taking appropriate action in compliance with these Rules.

This rule eliminates 1 and 4...action of a stand on vessel in a narrow channel...

Like they say "De bigga de boat, de righter the way."
Steve W

Steve said:

Like they say "De bigga de boat, de righter the way."
Steve W

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Unless there's a problem and you were required to hold course and speed...you could be found a lot more negligent than you want to pay out...

If you insist on maintaining ccourse and speed because you are the stand on vessel, you may end up being "dead right".

In the real world, the other boater quite possibly doesn't know the rules and may mistake your horn signal for you just being a jerk.

It's a good classroom exercise, but not practical in the real world. Further in the regulations is a statement about taking any action to avoid a collision. It's important.

I have learned from experience to not trust that pleasure boaters know the rules.

rwidman said:

If you insist on maintaining ccourse and speed because you are the stand on vessel, you may end up being "dead right".

In the real world, the other boater quite possibly doesn't know the rules and may mistake your horn signal for you just being a jerk.

It's a good classroom exercise, but not practical in the real world. Further in the regulations is a statement about taking any action to avoid a collision. It's important.

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Yes and no....being a professional captain including serious towing situations I know that many boaters don't know the rules...I see it every day...that doesn't mean you get to ignore the rules. It isn't about insisting...it's the rules and I'm pretty sure we are obliged to follow them in the CFRs.

When extremis happens...you take the appropriate action. In this situation...immediately changing course (if even able to) and speed is the sign of a rookie captain...you sound the danger signal/make radio calls and wait till you know the other boater isn't gonna follow the rules...anything less is just as negligent.

The real trick is to alter any course and speed you can far enough in advance so that a collision situation isn't even foreseeable.... the trouble with that concept is for many vessels..they are already at max maneuvering so any vessel impeding their progress in a narrow channel is a real life issue...not just a classroom exercise.

rwidman said:

If you insist on maintaining ccourse and speed because you are the stand on vessel, you may end up being "dead right".

In the real world, the other boater quite possibly doesn't know the rules and may mistake your horn signal for you just being a jerk.

It's a good classroom exercise, but not practical in the real world. Further in the regulations is a statement about taking any action to avoid a collision. It's important.

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Rule 1 states, "These rules shall apply to ALL vessels.............

Rule 2 states " Nothing in these rules shall exonerate any vessel ....from the consequences of any neglect to comply with these rules or of the neglect of any precaution which may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen or by the special circumstances of the case"

Crawford says, "There is no alternative to compliance with rule 2 on any waters" "It's a stern reminder that the regulations do not overlook common sense". Nothing shall bring acquittal from the consequences of stupidity. Seamen cannot abdicate seamanship by blind adherence to words printed on a page". No one should have the right to disregard the last clear chance to avoid disaster. What rule 2 says is that it is a violation of the rules to cleave the regulations when a departure might negate the danger". ..........Arctic Traveller

I would have thought it was #1 because while the example said your boat had to remain in the channel to navigate it didn't say anything about having to keep moving, like a tug and tow for example. So based on the conditions given in the example there is no apparent reason why the boat in the channel couldn't slow down or even stop. Which means there would be no reason to sound the danger signal since there isn't any in this case.

Had the example included information describing the boat in the channel as being restricted in its ability to maneuver (which means the ability to change speed as much as it means the ability to change direction) then the danger signal would be appropriate.

The trouble with these USCG generated (or many other sources) questions is they are a snapshot in time. The question isn't about what could you have done 5 minutes ago or what you should do a minute or two ...they are for only as the question reads.

In a narrow channel that you MUST stay within and shouldn't just arbitrarily move around in...and maybe you can't maneuver at all in including slowing down because you are a million ton barge train approaching a bend or bridge...the answer is easy...

You are the stand on and have to let the other vessel know that if it proceeds crossing your bow a danger situation is occurring. Sound 5 or more short blasts to let them know.

The question doesn't say you are pretty sure a collision is going to happen...it just says your not sure just how close it might be...if the question said there's no doubt that a collision or unsafe situation was about to occur...then altering course and speed would be prudent.

You really have to dissect the answers to see they are set up to be tricky/confusing.

Answer one CAN"T be right cause the other vessel isn't the stand on vessel (the way the question is worded)

Answer two isn't right yet because you are supposed to hold course and speed, you CAN'T safely operate out of the channel so a premature turn would be incorrect if you grounded or sank yourself whch is just as bad as a collision.

Answer three CAN'T be right because it says you MAY sound the danger signal and the rules clearly state that if you are in doubt you MUST sound the danger signal.

Many people don'y understand the ABSOLUTES in government regs/rules when the terms "may" or "must" are used...they choose those words very carefully.

While these rules generally apply to commercial THINKING...they do apply to us and to ANSWER the question and not what is done in the real world with our little pleasure cruisers...the BEST answer can only be "3".

Again, a classroom exercise, and perhaps a test question, but a prudent operator is not going to proceed into a collision situation blasting his horn because he has the right of way. If we are talking a tug and barges, yes. If we are talking recreational trawlers, it's just not worth it to assert our right of way and risk a collision. Picture this if you will:

You are in this situation heading for a sure collision with another boat, blowing your horn. Your wife, by your side says "Honey, you better slow down or we'll hit that boat." Is your response "F**k him, I have the right of way?

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Now let's look at another set of "rules". On the Atlantic ICW, at least, it is common practice for a faster boat wanting to overtake a slower boat to call the slower boat on the radio and arrange for a "slow pass", that is the slower boat in front will slow or stop and the overtaking boat will then pass at a no-wake speed.

This is, of course, a violation of the rules because the stand on boat is supposed to maintain course and speed while being overtaken. If these two boats followed the "rules", it would either take a couple miles for a 7 knot boat to pass a 6 knot boat, or the overtaking boat would speed past the slower boat, throwing a huge wake.

So - we are breaking the rules, but operating with courtesy and common sense.

One more thing - how many folks here display an anchor ball when anchored during the day? It's in the rulebook.

rwidman said:

This is, of course, a violation of the rules ...

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Nonsense, it is in accordance with the rules in that it is part of the passing "agreement."

RickB said:

Nonsense, it is in accordance with the rules in that it is part of the passing "agreement."

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Exactly...amazing how many try to argue the difference between the rules and reality when they are really both the same...it's just that test questions are only a snapshot in time and they don't take alternative actions in mind usually for "other" possible answers...you are forced to pick the "best" answer.

As far as having a collision in one of our toy boats...well if you do it's because you weren't paying close attention...95% of the time I can stop a boat or turn a boat in several boat lengths so waiting a second after the MUST requirement of blowing my whistle sure isn't gonna cause the collision...it would be my lack of expertise at the helm.

With good working, properly sized and located propulsion equipment aboard our minimally sized Toy Boats; and with a competent pilot at the helm there should be little reason for collision or grounding. Twin screw is a plus in this regard. But single screw can also be made to respond for emergency maneuvers. Basically it means: Take it slow in the first place, give wide berth to others, and be ready to apply momentary power and applicable shift/rudder alterations for quick boat placement alterations or to immediately attain a dead stop or even a fast reverse mode if necessary.

Keep you eyes and ears wide open at all times!

The reason for posing this question was just for all the reasons discussed.

A lot of the questions on the exam to get a captains license are like this.
sort of trick questions.
myself and my mate debated over the question so I thought to pose it to the board for additional arguments.

psneeld next to last post has the best argument in my opinion.

Thanks for the discussion.

I have a book and cd on getting your captains license my mate and I take the test often just to see how much we know.

I would like to pose a few more of them to the forum
The questions do seem to generate some thought provoking discussion.

I could be fun to have a question per week or untill the discussion ends.

What do you think?

SD

skipperdude said:

.......
I could be fun to have a question per week or untill the discussion ends.

What do you think?

SD

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Post the one about the anchor ball when anchored in the daytime.

skipperdude said:

Thanks for the discussion.

I have a book and cd on getting your captains license...

I could be fun to have a question per week or untill the discussion ends.

What do you think?

SD

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Mariners School, book and cd?

As has been mentioned... questions are often trick and real life boating situations can mandate not only "legal" CG response per circumstance but also the Captain's best boat-handling efforts as a situation unfolds.

That said: Sure... a weekly question might be fun for honing our pilot skills! Thanks, Art