The keel may be level...but

Slipped the boat last week end for a long overdue anti foul. The first picture shows the boat on the hard nice and level, the second the next morning after some rain.The problem was on IG's the scuppers are at the stern and the deck follows its own line. An eventful weekend that, my partner/brother in law came off the gantry ladder, third picture tells the story.

there has been several times I had the yard re block the boat so it was slighty up in the bow. If that happened to the Eagle I would be very up set. Espesially if some one was hurt. Hope he heals quick and well

Shouldn't the boat been jacked (at least initially) so the waterline was level?

I have a similar problem w my Willard. The side decks at aft cockpit level go fwd to about the helmsman's station. While afloat the side decks are lower at the fwd end and collect water. The worst thing about this is that the fuel filler ports are flush on the fwd end of the side decks so they are frequently flooded. I've asked several times to have the boat blocked so the fwd end of the side decks is above the after end but it never happens. Kinda like asking for over medium eggs ... they almost always come to the table over easy. Good thing I'm not fussy about eggs.

When we hauled out at the end of August, the travel lift operator asked to get a water hose, their way of checking the decks for level. As it happened, I had a level. Here's a picture from a previous haul-out. You can see the difference from the front blocks to the rear. Keels slope back. The operator should have blocked the front higher. Bummer on the brother an law. The stories will last forever.

Interesting.
You have no cribbing or blocking under the keel Just the stands. Or so it seems from the picture. That is a lot of weight just sitting on some small diameter pipe welded together.
Usually the keel sets on blocks and the stands just balance the boat. Like HOBO above.

SD

Looks like you could just go around and screw the stands up or down to get level.

skipperdude said:

Interesting.
You have no cribbing or blocking under the keel Just the stands. Or so it seems from the picture.
Usually the keel sets on blocks and the stands just balance the boat. Like HOBO above.

SD

Looks like you could just go around and screw the stands up or down to get level.

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If you look closely, there appear to be three stands underneath the keel serving in place of blocks.

I see it but still. It just doesn't look safe, right, strong enough to me. I have seen a few boats tip over because it isn't balanced right.

Sd

skipperdude said:

I see it but still. It just doesn't look safe, right, strong enough to me.

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?? There are three cribbing style keel blocks in place, they should easily support a far greater weight than that boat.

The stands are there to prevent tipping. Large ships in graving docks used to use wooden poles to do the same thing.

Oops, just saw the one you guys are talking about, geez, that really was an act of faith!

I could be wrong but I only see 2 keel supports...from midships aft...

If that is the case I would be screaming bloody murder...now is it really that bad???? I don't know for sure...but I have NEVER seen that few to support the keel.

psneeld said:

I could be wrong but I only see 2 keel supports...from midships aft...

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I'd still prefer blocking.

I have never seen a yard around here that doesn't use blocks under the keel for weight support of the boat and stands on each side for keeping her balanced side to side. Our PT 38 has always sat on 4 blocks under the keel and three stands on each side, different crews but they all have done it the same over the years.

KKMI places three supports under the 35-foot Coot's keel as well as the three stands on each side. The keel slopes downward from forward to aft. If the keel was made level, the boat would be heading "downhill."








The Coot has a steel hull and can be lifted from four hoist points on the bulwark. One is prominently shown below the forward starboard pilothouse window, on top of the bulwark, in this photo.

blocking, cribs, stands...etc...etc...doesn't really matter except for the total square inches of keel support so there is no keel material crushing AND sufficient support to keep the boat from putting ANY major pressure on the side supports.unsupported hull if not directly on a chine.

rochepoint said:

I have never seen a yard around here that doesn't use blocks under the keel for weight support of the boat and stands on each side for keeping her balanced side to side. Our PT 38 has always sat on 4 blocks under the keel and three stands on each side, different crews but they all have done it the same over the years.

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Like Mike we have never seen our boat (or any other boat) hauled without the keel being blocked. In the case of GB36's the yards we've used generally use three sets of blocks and four sets of stands with the opposing pairs of stands chained together under the keel. And the yards all block the boat wiith the bow higher so that that rainwater goes to the aft deck and the drains.

A wood GB gets a lot more blocking under the keel, at least at Seaview North.

Here a few more pic's of the supports in question. I did query whether they were 'safe' and was told each stand was rated to 7 tons. Each of the other three boats on the hard were supported in similar fashion. Glad to have her back in the water though.

It's definitely more scary out of the water than in.

There is one advantage to the jack stands under the keel. One can easily check the load on each stand by turning the screw a bit. One would need to start hammering on blocks to discover the relative load on the usual wood blocks. I know of no really safe way to do it. I think I'd prefer those stands if ther'e were at least twice as many.

PS,
On posts #1 and 11 the fwd outbd jack staands need kinda badly to be the canted in type used liberally on sailboats. That one is hardly worth having at all. Even w a chain under and I don't see one either.

This is typical of how they set boats up on the hard at our marina...fairly solid arrangement. I have never felt it was in the least insecure.
I should mention it is an old pic - has had complete repaint and new canvas since.

I can't imagine that setup is doing the hull any good. Why didn't they use keel blocks?

Back to the topic at hand... As Bess and I have been "shopping" boats the past few months (with no REAL plan to buy), one thing we have noticed is the absence of what we consider "proper" scuppers. In other words, several big open holes that extend thru the hull from the side decks to outside the hull. What we are seeing a lot of are things that look like shower drains with grates over them that lead to... well... I am not really sure.

What I see as the main problem, as seems to maybe what happened above and DID happen to a friend is those "drains" get easily clogged with debris (leaves, dog hair, etc.) and the water has no place to go. In the case of a Tollycraft CPMY we saw last week, it would only take an inch or two of water to build up before it started to pour into the lower helm door. No good can come from that.

Tom-

PS... Hope the leg heals quickly.

Proper scuppers can be added to most vessels both during and after construction. At a cost of course. This issue plagues high end well designed (otherwise) vessels too.

Wood GBs have scuppers. These were carried over into the fiberglass boats and were used until at least 1975 if not later. Our boat, from the first batch of fiberglass GBs has scuppers and deck drains. Not sure why American Marine discontinued the use of scuppers on their Grand Banks line unless they added more than was worthwhile to the manufacturing costs or, more likely, they wanted a cleaner look to the hull.

Other than appearance (in some people's eyes) I can't think of any real downside to them.

Wouldn't mind two more scuppers in addition to the six already there.

Anybody have freeing ports on their boat? Seems like they'd do a better job than the meager scuppers many of us have (Coot excluded).

Scuppers, as can be seen on the right of pic, are generally excellent but they do take water in a beam sea - much to the annoyance of anyone sitting on the deck at the time....they get scuppered!

markpierce said:

Wouldn't mind two more scuppers in addition to the six already there.

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Does it rain that hard?

dwhatty said:

Anybody have freeing ports on their boat? Seems like they'd do a better job than the meager scuppers many of us have (Coot excluded).

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We have 2 in the stern. Sometimes I think they are there to let the big stuff over the side.

Bendit said:

Scuppers, as can be seen on the right of pic, are generally excellent but they do take water in a beam sea - much to the annoyance of anyone sitting on the deck at the time....they get scuppered!

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The only time the decks have been awash have been in beam seas. Freeing ports would be good.

Larry M said:

Does it rain that hard?

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No, but if a large wave fills behind the bulwark, I'll want the water to drain away fast.

In our neck of the woods they use mostly blocking ( 4 sets ) under the keel with the yacht slightly tilted to the stern.

Elwin

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