Volvo Penta V-6 diesels

I'm waiting for paint to dry so I have to much free time. On the Krogen forum, the Volvo parts debate is active. Here are a couple of posts. We have a Ford Lehman so no connection to Volvo or their parts department.

Post 1:

Nope, I have Depco rebuild my RAW water pumps but it ain't no $200 dollars because there are proprietary volvo peices in it. I think the last raw water pump they did for me was about $380. A new one from Volvo is over $500.

What's leaking now is the fresh water pump behind the front engine case. If it were just a few dollars and a day of my time I MIGHT go ahead and fix it, but I get so pissed off everytime I call Volvo parts, it just doesn't seem worth it anymore. The guy's are real nice but they always say something like "WOW! Are you sitting down?" "I'm sorry but you better sit down this is unbelievable!"

Post 2:

I agree with all of the other posts BUT...2 things, the first doesn't apply to you as I bought a ......... with very LOW engine hours (bad thing) and while the engine has been reliable, I have had to continually replace parts. Being a Volvo, I have spent over $8K over the last 4 years on relatively minor bolt on parts. If I hadn't done the work myself the cost would have been close to double. I finally have had it. Just last week the fresh water pump started leaking and the easiest way to fix that is to get the parts from Volvo and pull the engine to be able to properly work on the front. If I am going to pull the engine it'll be to replace it with a non Volvo engine, as I'm sick and tired of their astronomically priced parts.

That leads to the second thing I was going to tell you that does apply to you, Volvo parts are crazy expensive. Take for example the heat exchange core that I replaced 2 years ago. The cost of the core was $2100 + the cost the O-rings. In Volvos' defense, this engine wasn't run enough over the years with me putting the majority of the 2700+ hours on the engine over the last 4 years, hence my continually having to replace parts.

boatgm: My TAMD41s are what I consider "new" even though they date from 1990 and have 3000 hrs on them. What makes yours "older"? I think from your sn starting with 89, that yours date from 1989? Is that correct?

That puts them 20 yrs ahead of the one Marin has gone so far out on a limb against.

I guess the other thing to consider if a Volvo Penta part is really even a Volvo Penta part. I say that as know that my "Volvo" D2-75 is really a Perkins, which is really an ISM Shibaura. The exact same block is also rebranded as a (gasp) Caterpillar 2.2T. It can be found in New Holland skid steers, Manitou forklifts, and Northern Lights generators. I can literally buy parts on line from a tractor dealership. The same company makes diesels for Cummins and Yanmar, among others.

The engine I pulled out was a BMW. But it wasn't really a BMW, it was a Hatz. Parts were quite rare as neither Hatz or BMW supported it. I literally gave it to a guy who makes his living selling old BMW (but not Hatz) diesel parts.

I suppose I should be mad at BMW for not supporting their 30 year old product. Or maybe I should be mad at Yanmar, as they now use a diesel BMW block...

Northern Spy said:

I guess the other thing to consider if a Volvo Penta part is really even a Volvo Penta part. I say that as know that my "Volvo" D2-75 is really a Perkins, which is really an ISM Shibaura. The exact same block is also rebranded as a (gasp) Caterpillar 2.2T.

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We should not be surprised Northern Spy is so well informed. I don`t have a model no. but a friend`s 4cyl Volvo, painted Volvo green,is marked elsewhere as a Perkins (from Peterborough). And are all those 3cyl Onan/Cummins gensets really Kubota engined?
I can`t think of a 6cyl engine resembling the top of the Volvo but perhaps the engine derives from a Volvo vehicle, maybe a truck, a possible parts source.
I`d be very interested to see the Forum with a part number and engine model to chase down; like a Jack Russell after a rabbit is my guess.That said,it`s unfortunate the owner has to go through this to find a part. BruceK

BruceK said:

We should not be surprised Northern Spy is so well informed. I don`t have a model no. but a friend`s 4cyl Volvo, painted Volvo green,is marked elsewhere as a Perkins (from Peterborough). And are all those 3cyl Onan/Cummins gensets really Kubota engined?
I can`t think of a 6cyl engine resembling the top of the Volvo but perhaps the engine derives from a Volvo vehicle, maybe a truck, a possible parts source.
I`d be very interested to see the Forum with a part number and engine model to chase down; like a Jack Russell after a rabbit is my guess.That said,it`s unfortunate the owner has to go through this to find a part. BruceK

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Come on Marin... contact your Volvo owning buddy and get the engine year and model... as well as the all important part number. Seems to me this Forum going after that part is the best bet yout friend has to solve his Volvo part problem! - Art

I suspect there is nothing this forum has to offer my acquaintance that he has not already thought of or tried. As I said he has a lifetime career in the marine industry with connections in most or all of the marine diesel manufacturers including Volvo. I do know from when he showed us around the boat after he bought it that they are standard issue Volvo marine diesels from that era, the 1970s I believe, but while he told us the model it was a few years ago and I don't remember. I don't even remember their power. The boat is about 40 feet long.

I don't see him very often and I'm scheduled to head out to direct a five-country shoot in a week or so and won't be back in the US until later in November. But if I see him before we leave I'll try to remember to ask him what the engines are.

rwidman said:

Marin, Many of the posts on this forum are not much more than personal insults and your post does not dissapoint in this respect.

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The expression " the pot calling the kettle black" comes to mind here.....

For all we know, he is the villiage idiot who couldn't find a six pack in a convenience store.

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As you don't know him, you are in no position to judge him. I do know him, and I am.

You are asking us to believe that nowhere in the world is this engine part available, new, used, or rebuilt and that this is the fault of the engine manufacturer.

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Before jumping to the wrong conclusion (again) read what I actually wrote. I said so far he has not had any luck locating the parts he needs and Volvo has told him they no longer support that engine. He didn't say that he has given up nor did he tell me he believes the part doesn't exist anywhere. But finding it has so far proven to be unsuccessful and he is starting to think about alternatives to Volvo engines.

...it's hardly the fault of the manufacturer. Every piece of machinery and every living thing has an end of life. There comes a time when it's done and cannot be revived.

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Agreed. We no longer support the 707 with parts supplied by us although we do support the operators of 707s with operational, service, and repair information. But... I don't hear lots of tales of woe about parts availability and super high prices with Detroit 6-71s or 8V-71s or Lehmans or Cummins or Deeres or Cats or Yanmar or... Volvo seems to have cornered the market on disgruntled operators in this respect. Or are they all lying to get their 15 minutes of fame?

We have, on this thread, several people who own and operate Volvo engined boats and they report a high level of satisfaction with them.

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That's very nice for them but totally irrelevant to people who have had or are having the opposite experience.

On the other hand, we have some people who don't own Volvos, but know about "some guy" who has trouble getting parts or is replacing perfectly good engines because of fears of difficulty finding parts.

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Since the people reporting problems with Volvo parts availability and service and extremely high.prices are from all over the world, including "some guys" I know personally here and in Hawaii, and this is an issue that a hell of a lot of people seem to have, and it's not a new issue but one I have seen written about in a variety of places for a lot of years, I think I'm going to give these people credibility as opposed to deciding they're all wrong based on the opinion of one amateur boater on an amateur boating forum. Who I don't know and so far have no reason to give any credibility to on the subject outside of the fact that he has a Volvo (I believe Volvos are or were the standard engine in Camano Trolls) and has so far had good luck with it..

My only direct experience with Volvo engines has been fishing for several years on a boat that had one in Hawaii. I don't know the model but it was turbocharged and after cooled and it was an excellent power plant. Based on that experience I thought that a Volvo diesel would be a great engine to have in a boat.

Based on what I have learned by talking to acquaintences and reading over the years I no longer feel that way. When I hear a fellow club member say, as I did just a few weeks ago, that in preparation for extensive cruising for the next few years in the southwestern Pacific and beyond they are re-engining their sailboat from Volvo to Kubota based on their research which shows that Volvo parts, service, and support is poor to nonexistent in many of the places they are going, that tells me that there are smarter choices on the planet than Volvo, no matter how great their engines may be.

This is all strictly my opinion, which is based on what I have heard and read. Pretty much everything on this forum is based on opinion and I'm not going to change mine just because it's not in line with somebody else's. Forums like this can be helpful sources of information but using what's posted here in lieu of doing one's own research is really dumb in my opinion.

Art said:

....]t and think this post by Marin was not meant to be too invasive, just thought provoking. Right Marin??

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I simply meant that this particular guy has professional contacts throughout the marine industry, here and abroad, that go far beyond what is available through an amateur boating forum. While it may sound arrogant to some, i suspect he feels that if he can pick up the phone and call the top folks at the engine manufactures and parts distributors and yards and so on here and overseas he sees little value in bothering with a bunch of recreational boaters.

I don't know this fellow that well. We bump into him now and again in the marina which is how we came to learn of his current predicament.

I perhaps should add that should this fellow decide to re-engine his boat it I don't think it will be any sort of financial burden for him. I brought him up originally simply as an illustration of the tough time the owners of boats with older Volvo diesels can have in finding parts. But he'll get his problem solved eventually one way or another.

Marin said:

I don't know this fellow that well.

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London bridges falling down, falling down... err... Ring around the mulberry bush... err... One one-thousand, two one=thousand - - > I’m coming to find you!

This exercise of trying to assist a boater has become a child’s game we are playing with seemingly no real base provided for us to be enabled toward completion of our part-finding assistance offering. - Art
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Art said:

Come on Marin... contact your Volvo owning buddy and get the engine year and model... as well as the all important part number. Seems to me this Forum going after that part is the best bet your friend has to solve his Volvo part problem!

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Art said:

- Art
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Marin said:

I suspect there is nothing this forum has to offer my acquaintance that he has not already thought of or tried. As I said he has a lifetime career in the marine industry with connections in most or all of the marine diesel manufacturers including Volvo. I do know from when he showed us around the boat after he bought it that they are standard issue Volvo marine diesels from that era, the 1970s I believe, but while he told us the model it was a few years ago and I don't remember. I don't even remember their power. The boat is about 40 feet long.

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Marin – No matter how much one person knows about a topic there is always a chance that a group of concerned, thinking persons (other boaters in this case) can solve a problem that said person cannot. To think otherwise is irrational. - Art

Marin said:

I don't see him very often and I'm scheduled to head out to direct a five-country shoot in a week or so and won't be back in the US until later in November. But if I see him before we leave I'll try to remember to ask him what the engines are.

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Marin – How could you forget after so many here have offered assistance? - Art

Marin said:

I don't know this fellow that well. We bump into him now and again in the marina which is how we came to learn of his current predicament.

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Marin – Do you know his name for phone call, can’t you get contact to him via harbor master of your/his Marina, can’t you leave note in a baggie with small weight inserted for wind protection aboard his boat with this forum’s offer of assistance?

Marin said:

I perhaps should add that should this fellow decide to re-engine his boat it I don't think it will be any sort of financial burden for him. (Sooo! – Art) I brought him up originally simply as an illustration of the tough time the owners of boats with older Volvo diesels can have in finding parts. But he'll get his problem solved eventually one way or another.

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Marin – This guy exist, or was this exercise “... simply [used] as an illustration...”??? - Art

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Marin says, "most of what is on this Forum is opinion and not fact," or words to that effect.

A few years ago I was giving testimony in a contract case where the opposing council maintained I had no facts but only opinions. The Judge asked me a few , what I thought, simple questions and then said I was stating fact due to my expert credentials and invovlement in the case. Large sums changed hands based upon a dispute where issues of fact vs opinions were argued. So,

Therefore, I maintain, based upon the facts presented in this case, that the owner of the vessel and engine in question, is incapable of finding a suitable camshaft for this unknown to the courts, vessel and engine. Further the court rules, no facts have been presented to show the engine in question was built by Volvo. Further, the fact that the engine cannot be demonstrated to be built by Volvo does not mean it it was built by Perkins, Kubota or BMW.

Please chime in Bruce K!!

sunchaser said:

Marin says, "most of what is on this Forum is opinion and not fact," or words to that effect.

A few years ago I was giving testimony in a contract case where the opposing council maintained I had no facts but only opinions. The Judge asked me a few , what I thought, simple questions and then said I was stating fact due to my expert credentials and invovlement in the case. Large sums changed hands based upon a dispute where issues of fact vs opinions were argued. So,

Therefore, I maintain, based upon the facts presented in this case, that the owner of the vessel and engine in question, is incapable of finding a suitable camshaft for this unknown to the courts, vessel and engine. Further the court rules, no facts have been presented to show the engine in question was built by Volvo. Further, the fact that the engine cannot be demonstrated to be built by Volvo does not mean it it was built by Perkins, Kubota or BMW.

Please chime in Bruce K!!

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So when I call a Volvo dealer for a part and he says "Volvo no longer supports that product" it is the dealer's opinion and not fact?

ancora said:

So when I call a Volvo dealer for a part and he says "Volvo no longer supports that product" it is the dealer's opinion and not fact?

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Depends on the dealer...

Northern Spy said:

Originally Posted by Marin
I don't know this fellow that well.

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In that he's not a "boating buddy" as Art suggested. We know him well enough to talk to him when we see him and visa versa. But he's not someone we see all that often. Particularly now since his boat's been inop for months.

Art said:

Marin – How could you forget after so many here have offered assistance? - Art

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Art-- You guys are the ones making a mountain out of a molehill here, not me. Right now my primary concern is getting 1,000 pounds of video equipment through customs into Qatar in a week or so. On the list of things that are important to me this guy's engine issue is right down at the very bottom of the list. What he does or doesn't do is not anything I spend time thinking about other than the few minutes I've spent responding to this thread.

He mentioned it in passing in a conversation awhile back and I brought it up here as an example of the kinds of issues people have with Volvo engines, or at least older ones. He didn't ask me if I had any ideas or if I knew anyone who knows anything about these engines or where to get parts. He simply expressed frustration at the time it was taking to locate the parts and the lack of interest or information forthcoming from Volvo itself and that he was starting think about re-engining the boat. How serious he is on the latter I have no idea.

I doubt I'll see him again for months by which time he will most likely have long since dealt with the problem with his engine one way or another and I will have forgotten he even had the problem unless he happens to bring it up again. He's dealing with it and he has the means to deal with it any way he sees fit.

To be blunt Art, I'm not interested in other boaters' problems. I can be sympathetic and I might share our experience if we've had the same issue, but that's as far as it goes. Our two boats are the only ones we're interested in and we do what we can to solve the issues that come up with them. I'm not a boat "fan" like yourself, Eric, and some of the others on this forum. I like our two boats and what we do with them, but with a couple of local exceptions I have no real interest in other people's boats or what they do with them.

Yes, the fellow with the Volvo Pentas we've been talking about is real. Whether anyone here chooses to believe that or not is not my concern. I related his experience the same as ancora and others have related theirs. How you choose to interpret these experiences as they relate to the wisdom of buying a boat with Volvo engines is totally up to you.

I get it now...it is a conspiracy by Volvo dealers not to sell Volvo parts and make money. How sneaky of them.

Does anyone need to "know" more???

I think this thread needs to be deleted.

If someone had the time to pick out 4 or 5 of the best posts and delete the rest that would be better but would it be worth it?

On a positive note a lot of you guys are pick's on Marin and he may deserve it. Another positive is that every one seems to be so nice about it. But I know Marin and you're not going to change his mind. So let's vote or delete.

manyboats said:

Does anyone need to "know" more???

I think this thread needs to be deleted.

If someone had the time to pick out 4 or 5 of the best posts and delete the rest that would be better but would it be worth it?

On a positive note a lot of you guys are pick's on Marin and he may deserve it. Another positive is that every one seems to be so nice about it. But I know Marin and you're not going to change his mind. So let's vote or delete.

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I vote that I place great thanks to all contributors... I received some good input to my inquiry about Volvo diesels... seeing as I am this tread's OP, i.e. Numero Uno!! And, it would have been a nice (hopefully successful) exercise to let us all join forces in helping locate the cam shaft for the one in need (Marin's "non" boat-buddy), but, Marin could care less of that boat owner’s need at this time, as per his posts clearly state; but, that is fine too!

That said, I bid you all a fine ado and wish all the best to those who own Volvo diesels. Depending on circumstances as they unfold... I too might even become a Volvo owner, after more careful research that is - - > regarding part availability for specific year/model engines that are at hand.

Cheers! – Art

PS: Eric, although you seem to be bothered by this thread and ask it be deleted, why I’m not sure, I respectfully advise that this thread stay available for the good of any person who may need to delve into TF archives re Volvo diesels. Northern Spy placed a comprehensive listing to Volvo dealers/repair shops on his # 69 post (I copied it into my boat folder, just incase need may arise). Others also posted useful info. Have a heart for thems that may need to read bout Volvos in the future! Soooo – For anyone who owns Volvos and is acquainted with this thread, if you have problem locating a part start a thread and list the year, engine model, and part number... you might have a plethora of TF boaters come to your assistance – except Marin, that is! Just kidding Marin.

So Volvo no longer supports a 40 year old engine. That's a surprise? Can you go to a Chevy dealer and buy a camshaft for a 1970 Vega? If not, would GM corporate be willing to help find one?

I think it's important to realize that for every disgruntled owner who posts his complaints on Internet message boards, there are hundreds of satisfied customers who just went to their supplier, bought the parts they needed, installed them, and went boating.

rwidman said:

I think it's important to realize that for every disgruntled owner who posts his complaints on Internet message boards, there are hundreds of satisfied customers who just went to their supplier, bought the parts they needed, installed them, and went boating.

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Which, of course, is totally irrelevant to someone like ancora and others who may be having a tough time trying to keep an older engine going.

Good post and good points Art. Perhaps I was seeing mostly the Marin v/s the horde act. And the only small diesel engine that I thought was sweet and nice was a Volvo. But when I re-powered I passed on Volvo entirely because of the never ending comments on Volvo's very expensive parts.

rwidman,
Vega is a very bad example. Most people on this forum won't even know what a Vega is. I'll bet I can get a camshaft for my 73 Buick though. But I agree re the "hundreds of satisfied customers" comment. Also you made a very good post earlier that I can't see now.

The main thing I'd like to know is if the quality of the Volvo engine better than average? I suspect they are all basically just engines and ther'e is scarcely anything really better about Deer's, Lugger's or all the rest. Kinda like Chevrolets and Cadilac's. The only engines that I know of that is really better is a blueprinted engine. And I know of no bad engines either. But for me it's much easier to think of a bad engine than an engine significantly better than average.

Eric--- The only experience I've had with Volvo Penta marine diesels was in the 70s in Hawaii when a good friend I fished with a lot ordered a custom-made PNW "trawler" styled fishing boat from a shipyard in Lake Union to replace the 28' Uniflite he and I had fished with for years. He was getting out of the flying business and into commercial fishing.

He ordered the boat with a Volvo Penta turbocharged, aftercooled diesel (straight six as I recall) because his research, which included talking to a lot of professional engine folks and commercial fishermen in the Seattle area, convinced him that the Volvo of that era was a better designed, better built, more reliable and, most importantly, longer-lived engine than the competition.

His experience in later years seems to have born this out. He currently runs a small fleet of longline tuna boats that go out for a month or so at a time, come back, unload, and go back out. He showed me through one of his boats in Honolulu several years ago and it, like the others, was equipped with a Volvo Penta diesel and a big Northern Lights generator.

On his orders, his captains operate the engines at 1500 rpm throughout every voyage and the engines are never shut down unless there is a problem. And he told me that he gets really pissed off if these engines go anything less than about 30,000 hours TBO, which apparently they rarely do.

His subsequent dissatisfaction had nothing to do with the engines, their efficiency, their reliability, or their longevity. It has to do with the increasing difficulty of getting parts in a timely manner and the cost of those parts.

How today's Volvo marine diesels compare with the Cats and Cummins and Deeres, and so forth of today I have no idea. Nobody I respect in the marine industry has told me one way or the other. But in the late 70s and 80s, I do think Volvo made a superior marine diesel based on the reputation I saw them earn in Hawaii.

manyboats said:

rwidman,
Vega is a very bad example. Most people on this forum won't even know what a Vega is. I'll bet I can get a camshaft for my 73 Buick though. But I agree re the "hundreds of satisfied customers" comment.

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re: Vega, true and I started to post something to that effect. The engine that Marin is talking about is older than many of the members here, How long should a company be ecpected to produce and stock parts for a discontinued product? This support costs the company money and in the end, they will be storing and then disposing of expensive, unsold parts.

You can get that 73 Buick camshaft, but probably not from a Buick dealer. More likely aftermarket, rebuilt or used. There were many, many more of those engines built than a particular Volvo marine engine.

Marin said:

Which, of course, is totally irrelevant to someone like ancora and others who may be having a tough time trying to keep an older engine going.

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And you are helping these folks locate parts how?

ancora went to a junkyard and found the part he needed but he got into an argument with the owner over the price and left without the part. He needs a different kind of help.

Seriously now, what's better, an engine that lasts 40 years and has to be taken out of service because parts aren't available or one that blows up after twenty years and has to be replaced?

In defense of Marin's post, Volvo indeed has its higher than normal share of complaints. That is his thesis, way more than a wayward camshaft intended as illustrative. Sure there are happy campers like R Cooke who really use and know and their Volvo equipped vessels, but a perusal of boatdiesel's Volvo archives is illuminating.

The Volvo IPS drives successfully bury one of Volvo's striking complaint issues, "smoke." Since none of us have IPS though, Volvo "smoke" complaints will continue. For a really troubled engine, check out stories on the Cat 3116.

By the way, a war of words with Marin is not going to improve your batting average, he's good.

sunchaser said:

In defense of Marin's post, Volvo indeed has its higher than normal share of complaints. .

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Compared to the number of units in service? Facts, please. Documentation is needed.

R Widman

Anticipating your crying need for facts and documentation and as I said - boatdiesel.com but it will cost you $25.

One fact I can provide right now, Volvo has successfully made us believe they manufacture all their marine engines. Not so (and as pointed out by others on this thread), unlike DD, MTU, Cummins, Cat Perkins and JD.

The essence of this thread is Volvo cannot stock spare parts for all their branded engines because of Volvo Marine cost reductions (check out Volvo's financials) or the original builder is kaput and has discontinued any parts servicing. I really like the Volvo Penta gas engines - who makes those? This re-badging though is not a negative and is commonly done - check out Cruasader, Mercruiser, Northern Lights and Lugger.

Correction: you can join boatdiesel.com for nothing and engage in the forums only.