Need serious opinions on buying an old trawler

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For those of us with not greatly constructed 1980's vintage trawlers...it may be the way to go...It's a way we can inspect and improve stringers and ribs or whatever structure you wish to call them in a glass boat if they are saturated/rotten.

The resulting patch if done correctly will be way stronger and if epoxy or vinylester used be more resistive to hydrolysis/blistering than the original hull.
 
I was looking at Defevers for a while and nearly all had badly rusted if not leaking tanks. There was a place in Ft L'dale that "specialized" in iron tank replacement. They charged $15K and that covered everything. They took them out through the side and supposedly you weren't able to tell the side had ever been altered. I can't remember if they included painting/gelcoating the hull in the $15k or not (for some reason I want to say it did up to a certain size).
I agree that I'd pull the engines before I shelled out that kind of money to have the hull chopped on. Then you can spruce things up in the ER a lot easier. I'd probably go back with 2 75 gal tanks and a 40 gal day tank if I didn't plan to use the boat for passagemaking.
 
old trawler question

The Marine Trader trawler referred to is mine. It has recently been surveyed by a prospective buyer who was not able to complete the deal. The boat needs interior walls replaced and cabin-deck seam sealed. The survey indicated "evidence of fuel weepage from the port tank"; however, there has never been fuel in the bilge and no odor of fuel in the engine room. I have a surveyor coming for a second opinion. I believe this "evidende" is rain water leakage around the fuel filler hose. The decks are solid, the lectrical system was rated excellent, the keel and running gear are perfect, the cutlass bearing is perfect, the main engine runs flawlessly all the time, I recently had the starter rebuilt, the genset runs flawlessly and I just replaced the fresh water pump ($1100.) because I didn't like the way it looked or sounded and didn't want to sell the boat to someone with a potentially faulty pump. The canvas was all new last year. The refrigerator was replaced last year with one made in Italy, which is fantastic, the hot water heater was replaced last year. There is an 8 ft dinghy on deck with a 10 hp Nissan outboard with 10 hours on it. So, you ask, why the low price? I am retiring in 3 months due to health reasons and need to seel the boat to pay off debt. The low price is a reflection of work needing to be done, and for a quick sale. I am nothing if not brutally honest about my boat. Check it out on craigslist. Great buy for someone with skills which I do not have, and with the energy to do the work which I do not have.
 
After all is said and done: The ONLY reasons I purchase any used product of substantial expense (with or without cash):

1. Its design fills my needs and desires
2. It has upside value
3. It will not take too much effort, time, further-investment to be made correct if it has items needing attention

As it apperas you know little about boats and other marine doings: I recommend that you had better get people who know boats to fully check out the one you buy before you buy it... and... follow 1 thru 3 above - - IMHO! :thumb:
 
Fedarcyks said:
...., leaks where the topside mounts to the deck, so that walls will need to be torn out, and replaced. Supposedly, $5k will do the trick........also, heard about iron tanks, but $5k ish will get me a alt to pulling tanks thru a hole in the hull. Where does the 50-150 numbers come from, assuming good hull core????
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I think you are being very optimistic in your "5k" assumptions. If you want a boat rebuilding project, this could do it for you. If you want a boat you can start using right away, I'm thinking you need to keep looking.

For every obvious problem in an old or "needs work" boat there will be a bazillion hidden problems you'll find when you start fixing the obvious ones. Very easy in these cases to end up spending more in time, effort, and money than you'd have spent getting a decent boat you could have been using from the outset, as opposed to perhaps years of "restoring" your bargain boat.
 
If it's truly going to be a dock condo only, some of the stated issues go away. On the other hand, as stated earlier, there are some very cool older Chris Craft, Hatteras and the like that would make much better live aboards. I'd forget the "trawler image" if the objective is to tie it fast to the dock most of the time. Twins, gas, who cares if it's only going to travel from the launch basin to the slip once in a while. I'm not sure if this is a trunk cabin boat, but if dock condo is the objective a trunk cabin boat with virtually no outside living space might not be the best choice...
 
"Ghetto approach is to POR15 the interior of the tank."

The small aircraft folks have internal tank coatings, as do many motorcycle dealers , that are designed for fuel .

Plastic replacement tanks are probably best choice as they are smaller , so only required fuel can be kept aboard . Cheap too.
 
The challenge to using the internal tank coating, or "sloshing compound" as it's called in the aircraft industry, is that it's called that because of the way it's applied to the inside of the tank. I have used this coating material myself and it works as advertised. BUT.... the method to apply it is to pour it into the removed tank and then turn the tank in every direction including upside down to distribute the sloshing compound to every nook, cranny, and seam in the tank. As I recall the directions said to continuously turn the tank for five minutes to make sure the compound coated every single bit of the inside of the tank.

Be hard to do this with a tank mounted in a boat.
 
I haven't read all of the posts so maybe someone has already covered this before.


I had a surveyor check out a CT42? I think, and a MT 40. Both were rejected in under 30 minutes for pretty much the same reason. The tanks were rotting away. The CT was originally listing for 49K then slowly dropped down to 24K. My offer/acceptance was $19K. The CT was rejected in 12 minutes of the survey. The tanks were the first biggie inspected because this is a common problem. The surveyor said it would be a minimum $15K job. The engine would have to be pulled first so the tanks could be removed. This however was not the problem, it was the result of the problem. The deck above was leaking onto the tanks which caused the corrosion. So, the leaking teak decks and fittings were the problem and they would have to be addressed. Cutting a hole in the side to remove the tanks still doesn't address the problem. We kicked around the idea of the possibility of trying to get a better price and doing the work myself. After about 10 minutes the surveyor convinced me to walk. Even if the boat was free, it would be a liability. When you come up with major problems in less than 15 minutes (I think it was actually 12 minutes) imagine what you will find in a full 4 to 5 hour survey - and that;s just the in the water survey. I have owned 2 project boats in the past and did not want to do it again. It was just soooooooooo tempting because I loved the CT - but I walked. Want to go inland cruising next year and the boat would not be ready in a year.
The real question is - what is your hobby? Spending money and working for the next several years or longer or do you want to go boating.

BTW, I am also in the 'not being a perfectionist is a plus' camp. I used to be a perfectionist and like most perfectionists, we never finish anything. But, that's a different subject.
 
skidgear said:
If it's truly going to be a dock condo only, some of the stated issues go away. On the other hand, as stated earlier, there are some very cool older Chris Craft, Hatteras and the like that would make much better live aboards. I'd forget the "trawler image" if the objective is to tie it fast to the dock most of the time. Twins, gas, who cares if it's only going to travel from the launch basin to the slip once in a while. ...
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I would not be really comfortable living on a gasoline powered boat, especially one with fuel tank issues. Leaking diesel smells bad. Leaking gasoline goes "boom". :eek:
 
Marin said:
The challenge to using the internal tank coating, or "sloshing compound" as it's called in the aircraft industry, is that it's called that because of the way it's applied to the inside of the tank. I have used this coating material myself and it works as advertised. BUT.... the method to apply it is to pour it into the removed tank and then turn the tank in every direction including upside down to distribute the sloshing compound to every nook, cranny, and seam in the tank. As I recall the directions said to continuously turn the tank for five minutes to make sure the compound coated every single bit of the inside of the tank.

Be hard to do this with a tank mounted in a boat.
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Marin - Is this a sealant you might recommend, "CS3204 fuel tank sealant"? Thanks for posting it Larry!

This post is in relation to your mention and firsthand experience of internal tank coating, i.e. “sloshing compound” (I’m always weighing cost, effort, and durability factors regarding the potential eventuality of fuel tank repair/refurbishment or replacement):

The two 100 gal aluminum tanks in our 1977 Tolly appear to be in perfect condition. Far as I can determine by close inspections neither has ever had dormant-water/moisture setting on their tops' or against their bottoms' exterior (water-moisture held against aluminum for long periods will eventually make it corrode through). Many have told me the tanks seem to be replacements as they look like new... I agree that they do look new, but, I cannot locate any insignias on the tanks that may assist in determining date of build or install... I also can find no sign of work ever undertaken in engine compartment that would be necessary to replace them; so I have to go on the premise that they are simply well kept, good looking originals. I maintain the gasoline water free by consistently placing ample Soltron per volume fuel. My filters bear me out in that I’ve had not a drop of water for four years. Upon purchase I did find a bit of water in the filters... before adding Soltron (which works great on many levels in all fuels).

Soooo – My “Sloshing Compound” questions - - > Simply in your opinion - - > Especially seeing as it is recommended a tank needs to be continually turned for five minutes to get the compound into every nook and cranny:

1. What type of internal tank cleaning is needed to remove gunk from every crevice before the sloshing compound is applied?
2. What do you feel might be the durability factor of the compound in regards to years of service it may last?
3. What is the compound’s cost?
4. Would it be wise to do a double or even triple slosh coating of the compound while tanks are out of boat?
5. If tanks only leak on bottom or at bottom edge... would the compound work without removing tank for the turn-around sloshing and would double or triple coats be wise in this case?

I’m not so concerned in getting tanks out (do one at a time by off hooking each engine and hoist aside, out of the way - tanks on outside in picts) as I am in being sure to put long-term durable replacement tanks back in. Expense of new tanks or economy of refurbished/repaired tanks that will esily slip back in place??? That question runs through my mind! :facepalm:
 

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Art: From what I understand, the Flamemaster CS3204-B2 is the consistency of warm peanut butter. These pictures were taken from the inside of a black iron 350 gallon diesel tank. They found the leak/pin holes on the inside at the low spot of the tank at the seam. After cleaning, a layer of cloth tape was epoxied at the seam and then coated with the CS3204-B2. I have heard the stuff has been used to repair a bullet damaged fuel tanks and to coat new tanks.
 

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Art--- It was a long time ago that I used the stuff and I have no idea who made it or what the product number was. I bought it at an aviation supply house and it came in quart cans. It was tan in color and had the consistency of milk.

Personally I feel that if you can take the tanks out of the boat it would be far better to replace them than to "slosh" them. Nobody I talked to viewed the sloshing compound as a permanent fix. I was told it was an approved way to get more life out of a fuel tank but it was not as ideal a solution as a new tank. The compound can over time separate from the tank wall, particularly if there is residue, corrosion, etc. on the inside of the tank.

From your description of your tanks I don't see any reason to do anything to them at all unless you are saying they are leaking at the bottom. If functionally the tanks are fine but there is a buildup of sludge in the bottoms of them you can have this cleaned out (or do it yourself with the right equipment). Also, if your tanks have inspection ports (which ideally they should have) using the sloshing compound will seal these shut from the inside, another reason not to use it.
 
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Larry and Marin

Thanks for further input on interior coating fuel tank repair products... will keep it all in mind. :thumb:

If my tanks became a problem requiring removal it would be brand new tanks for me! BTW: Tanks seem perfectly OK right now! :popcorn:
 
"Tanks seem perfectly OK right now!'

Tanks will rot from the outside at the bottom if they get wet , also from the top if the deck rains.

Time to inspect the tanks is after a heavy 3 day rain.
 
FF said:
"Tanks seem perfectly OK right now!'

Tanks will rot from the outside at the bottom if they get wet , also from the top if the deck rains.

Time to inspect the tanks is after a heavy 3 day rain.
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Fred - Been there done that several times. And checked tanks top to bottom and to rear side. No signs of water ever being in contact with tanks. No water on top or bottom of tanks. So far so good. But... if they are original, even though they look like new... they still may be 35 yrs old. Good thing is Tolly was kept under cover for approx 27 of her 35 years. Covered now when berthed at base YH. - Art
 
I've read a number of tests (while searching for a product for my E-type) that indicate that none of these gas tank sealants will hold up with ethonal in the fuel. That includes the epoxy based products. Many will say alcohol/ethonal "resistant", but that's as far as they go. No problem for diesel or straight gasoline.
 
. if they are original, even though they look like new..

Keep them that way and they should be good for 350 years.
 
FF said:
. if they are original, even though they look like new..

Keep them that way and they should be good for 350 years.
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At least that long!!! :rofl:
 
A too old boat give to you 2 cheers when you buy and when you sell
 
My boat has 22 years old and I'm instaling and fixing all the time, but its my pleasure.
 
:eek:) Angeline appears like a nice girl, you have to take care but not so much :eek:)
 
JohnP said:
Project boats intrique me. However if you are going to put all this time and effort and $$$ make sure this is pretty much your forever boat. Otherwise you will lose interest as things become difficult or you determine the boat is not for you.

At that point you will have to give it away along with everything you bought for it.

As far as tanks go you should cut them up and clear them out, removing as much crap from the engine compartment as possible. Clean it completely and paint it fresh and new. At that point you can reinstall any equiptment that proves to be usable--replace as much as you can with new. Wiring, plumbing, pumps, waterheaters whatever.

You can use smaller tanks, leave room to double them up later if you need more range.

If the boat has leaks and damaged wood work all over, it will be a long time before it becomes a liveaboard and not a workshop.

If I were doing this much work on a boat I would perfer to have one with a more consistant build quality, such as a Grandbanks, There are lots of 42s on Yachtworld and some are priced low. It would seem you could get one for 50 or 60k.

Although you could still have a project boat, I don't think the interiors get anywhere near as bad as some of the Marine Traders. If you buy a quality boat the money you spend restoring may not be wasted.

My 2cents-- JohnP
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Are the grand banks regarded as bullet proof.
 
trekker said:
Are the grand banks regarded as bullet proof.
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Maybe by people who don't own them.:)

GBs are no different than any other kind of boat in that they can be terrific if looked after and absolute dogs if not.

What American Marine brought to the table starting in 1966 with their Grand Banks line of boats was consistency of quality. There are better built boats out there, there are better looking designs out there, but the one thing you can count on with a GB is that every one of them was built in the same yard by the same people (figuratively speaking) to the same set of high-quality specs.

None of which accounts for what owners do to them over the years. However GBs tend to be purchased, new or used, by fairly discriminating, dcedicated, and loyal owners. As such, GBs tend to be looked after very well as the years go by. The owners I know who have woodies from the 60s keep their boats in a condition that rivals or betters most new boats today. But it's a lot of work to accomplish that.

Our 1973 boat is one of the first batch of fiberglass GB36s ever made. In the slip next to us is the last GB36 ever made. While the original molds for the GB36 were replaced with new molds in 1988 which made the boat a wee bit longer and wider, and noticeably taller, our boat and the last boat look at first glance to be identical (other than the rainforest of external teak on ours and the almost total lack of external teak on the last one.) That's a long time to be building essentially the same boat, and the folks who did it got real good at doing it.

GBs in fact are fairly care-intensive. While the fiberglass boats are "fiberglass," the interiors are not. They are as wood as the 1966-1973 woodies--- wood bulkheads, floors, cabinets, inner wall bracing, window frames, etc., etc., etc. So there's painting and caulking and brightwork and all the "stuff" that goes with maintaining a wood boat on the inside.

They have the same subdeck construction under the teak planking as most other boats--- a fiberglass-marine ply-fiberglass sandwich--- and if the teak deck is not maintained correctly a GB can be susceptible to subdeck rot just like all the other boats. One difference is they used really good quality wood in the subdeck so it will resist rot longer than many, but not forever.

And all the boat's systems--- engines, electrical, plumbing, galley, electronics, lights, pumps, switches, windlass, etc--- use the same components as other boats. They tend to be of high quality but it is all off-the-shelf stuff, so it is crapping out on a GB just like it is on every other boat.

So no, the name Grand Banks is not synonymous with "bullet proof." If there is a bullet proof boat I don't know what it is, but I do know after 14-plus years of living with one it's not a Grand Banks.
 
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