Volvo Penta V-6 diesels
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Third-Reef
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I have 2 1988 TMD41A turbocharged volvo straight 6 diesels in my trawler with 1400 hours on them. Seem like nice motors except for replacement parts. I can buy piston sleeve rod sets to rebuild it in place but they are like $1200 each. Taken care of they should make 10K hours. They smoke cold but run clean with not smoke or soot at 2500 rpm. The MS4A reversing gears on them are another story. I have been told i will be lucky to get 2K hours out of these.
Hi TR
Thanks for input. I've never dealt with Volvo before. So... while I make ready for sea test of an older used boat my learning curve is straight up on Volvo diesels.
1. Do they always smoke under 2500 rpm, or just when cold at lower RPM?
2. Is it OK to run them at trolling speeds for long periods, or do they need bursts to keep them cleared out?
3. You mention "lucky to get 2K hrs" on MS4A reversing gears. You mean in separate from engine transmissions... or... do you mean reverse gears that are part of the Volvo diesels themselves?
4. Your Volvo able to meet the newer EPA and other orginizations' standards/restrictions/requirements?
Again, Thanks! – Art
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Art
I also have TAMD41A Volvos. Mine are about 1990, so no different. Mine have 3000 hours on them. I bought mine and repowered at 1500 hrs. since then they have run mostly at 2100 rpm. I recently had an issue: my on engine fuel filter on the port engine clogged (after 1500 hours) so I had to replace it. I am thinking of doing the one on the Starboard engine soon.
I hear all the time about how expensive Volvo parts are. Frankly, that information is flagrantly inflammatory, as these engines are so reliable, they never need the parts. I think that is why the parts cost so much....nobody keeps them in stock, so they have to be ordered from the factory, if ever actually needed.
Smoky at startup? sure, for a minute or two, then clean running. This is just a measure of injection pressure. Look at any boat that puts out smoke at startup and quiz the owner about the age of his engines. You will find a correlation between the year of the engine (hence the injection pressure) and the amount of smoke. You will not find a correlation between the make of the engine and the amount of smoke. They all used to be smoky. Now they are all required to be smoke free. Injection pressures have risen over the last 40 years from under 1000 psi to over 25000 psi, all in search of cleaner burning.
No, I have no financial interest in Volvo, I just like a quality product.
I also have TAMD41A Volvos. Mine are about 1990, so no different. Mine have 3000 hours on them. I bought mine and repowered at 1500 hrs. since then they have run mostly at 2100 rpm. I recently had an issue: my on engine fuel filter on the port engine clogged (after 1500 hours) so I had to replace it. I am thinking of doing the one on the Starboard engine soon.
I hear all the time about how expensive Volvo parts are. Frankly, that information is flagrantly inflammatory, as these engines are so reliable, they never need the parts. I think that is why the parts cost so much....nobody keeps them in stock, so they have to be ordered from the factory, if ever actually needed.
Smoky at startup? sure, for a minute or two, then clean running. This is just a measure of injection pressure. Look at any boat that puts out smoke at startup and quiz the owner about the age of his engines. You will find a correlation between the year of the engine (hence the injection pressure) and the amount of smoke. You will not find a correlation between the make of the engine and the amount of smoke. They all used to be smoky. Now they are all required to be smoke free. Injection pressures have risen over the last 40 years from under 1000 psi to over 25000 psi, all in search of cleaner burning.
No, I have no financial interest in Volvo, I just like a quality product.
With the rapid transformation of Volvo--- they recently acquired Nissan Diesel and Renault Trucks (which includes Mack Trucks), and Renault has since become Volvo's largest shareholder---- one wonders how long support of it's older products will continue.
No question the company makes quality products. But I would be leery today of buying an older Volvo product. A long-time friend of mine operates a small fleet of longline tuna boats out of Honolulu. I used to sportfish with him in the 1970s. His boats have always had Volvo diesels in them, at least up through the early 2000s. He gets excellent service out of them but from what he's told me the cost and difficult availability of parts has become a major problem to the point where the last I heard from him on the subject he was considering re-engining his boats simply to get away from the cost and delay factors of operating these engines in commercial service.
Recreational service is not nearly as demanding so perhaps the cost and availability issues are not that much of a factor. On the other hand, the owner of the marine electronics shop we use has a cruiser with a pair of older Volvo diesels in them and he told us last weekend his boat has been out of service now for three months waiting for a part for one of his engines.
Likewise a couple in our yacht club is preparing their sailboat for a trans-Pacific cruise and then some. They are replacing the boat's Volvo engine with a Kubota. The Volvo runs just fine, but their reasoning is that their research has shown the availability of parts and service for Volvo engines in anything other than large metropolitan areas is slim to none. Where with Kubota, Yanmar, etc., parts and service are available virtually everywhere on the planet. Or at least everywhere they are planning to go.
No question the company makes quality products. But I would be leery today of buying an older Volvo product. A long-time friend of mine operates a small fleet of longline tuna boats out of Honolulu. I used to sportfish with him in the 1970s. His boats have always had Volvo diesels in them, at least up through the early 2000s. He gets excellent service out of them but from what he's told me the cost and difficult availability of parts has become a major problem to the point where the last I heard from him on the subject he was considering re-engining his boats simply to get away from the cost and delay factors of operating these engines in commercial service.
Recreational service is not nearly as demanding so perhaps the cost and availability issues are not that much of a factor. On the other hand, the owner of the marine electronics shop we use has a cruiser with a pair of older Volvo diesels in them and he told us last weekend his boat has been out of service now for three months waiting for a part for one of his engines.
Likewise a couple in our yacht club is preparing their sailboat for a trans-Pacific cruise and then some. They are replacing the boat's Volvo engine with a Kubota. The Volvo runs just fine, but their reasoning is that their research has shown the availability of parts and service for Volvo engines in anything other than large metropolitan areas is slim to none. Where with Kubota, Yanmar, etc., parts and service are available virtually everywhere on the planet. Or at least everywhere they are planning to go.
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Thanks, koliver... Volvo ought to hire you as their web promoter!
You've got humor and fact combined to produce a huge thumbs-up for these engines. I will move further into review of the sport fisher that contains these Volvo Diesels. 
- Art 
Third-Reef
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To answer your questions above
They only smoke cold, after a good run the are clean at idle
The trolling speed thing is kind of a myth from what i have read. Look at tony Athens articles on Boat diesel.com and make your own decision
The MS4A transmissions (reversing gears) are the stock setup on these motors at the time. They have cone clutches known for having issues.
Also the A series of the TMD41 engine had lower compression ratio and smoked more. the B and up have less smoke cold.
They only smoke cold, after a good run the are clean at idle
The trolling speed thing is kind of a myth from what i have read. Look at tony Athens articles on Boat diesel.com and make your own decision
The MS4A transmissions (reversing gears) are the stock setup on these motors at the time. They have cone clutches known for having issues.
Also the A series of the TMD41 engine had lower compression ratio and smoked more. the B and up have less smoke cold.
Agreed!
TY for follow up!
FF
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"You will find a correlation between the year of the engine (hence the injection pressure) and the amount of smoke."
The COMPRESSION pressure if low will give white smoke till the cylinders get warm and everything expands and fits better.
With Bosch style fuel injection low pressure simply will not be enough to open the injector and get the squirt of fuel.
Bosch style injectors are fairly cheap to have rebuilt, new nozzle and springs shimmed to correct pressure is maybe $65 each . R&R no big deal.
"Injection pressures have risen over the last 40 years from under 1000 psi to over 25000 psi, all in search of cleaner burning."
Your Volvo will be about 15 -1600psi to operate,The 25,000 lb units are a grand each! Plus a $10,000 black box.
"I hear all the time about how expensive Volvo parts are. Frankly, that information is flagrantly inflammatory, as these engines are so reliable, they never need the parts. I think that is why the parts cost so much....nobody keeps them in stock, so they have to be ordered from the factory, if ever actually needed."
Somewhat unique concept as piston miles , time om the engine or gallons of fuel burned wear out ALL engines.
If Volvo never wore out the commercials would ALL install Volvo, instead of avoiding them like the Plague!
Having repaired and replaced most type engines under 300hp , A Volvo would never be specified in any new build of ours.
Even normal PM parts are seldom in stock , pay to fly in a fuel filter ? no thanks.
The COMPRESSION pressure if low will give white smoke till the cylinders get warm and everything expands and fits better.
With Bosch style fuel injection low pressure simply will not be enough to open the injector and get the squirt of fuel.
Bosch style injectors are fairly cheap to have rebuilt, new nozzle and springs shimmed to correct pressure is maybe $65 each . R&R no big deal.
"Injection pressures have risen over the last 40 years from under 1000 psi to over 25000 psi, all in search of cleaner burning."
Your Volvo will be about 15 -1600psi to operate,The 25,000 lb units are a grand each! Plus a $10,000 black box.
"I hear all the time about how expensive Volvo parts are. Frankly, that information is flagrantly inflammatory, as these engines are so reliable, they never need the parts. I think that is why the parts cost so much....nobody keeps them in stock, so they have to be ordered from the factory, if ever actually needed."
Somewhat unique concept as piston miles , time om the engine or gallons of fuel burned wear out ALL engines.
If Volvo never wore out the commercials would ALL install Volvo, instead of avoiding them like the Plague!
Having repaired and replaced most type engines under 300hp , A Volvo would never be specified in any new build of ours.
Even normal PM parts are seldom in stock , pay to fly in a fuel filter ? no thanks.
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Fred - TY for input. Of the posts you seem most cautionary about Volvo diesels. I've a couple questions and highlighted your areas pertaining to same:
"The COMPRESSION pressure if low will give white smoke till the cylinders get warm and everything expands and fits better." - Due to same reasons as with most diesel engine brandss - correct?
"With Bosch style fuel injection low pressure simply will not be enough to open the injector and get the squirt of fuel." - Is Bosch fuel injection standard on Volvo? Other types available that might be more conducive to higher pressure?
"Bosch style injectors are fairly cheap to have rebuilt, new nozzle and springs shimmed to correct pressure is maybe $65 each. R&R no big deal." - At $65 plus easy R&R to rebuild Bosch seems OK. How long do Bosch last with good pressure between rebuilds?
"Your Volvo will be about 15 -1600psi to operate,The 25,000 lb units are a grand each! Plus a $10,000 black box." - Yow! 25,000 lb units a grand plus $10,000 black box. Please define "back box"???
"If Volvo never wore out the commercials would ALL install Volvo, instead of avoiding them like the Plague!
Having repaired and replaced most type engines under 300hp , A Volvo would never be specified in any new build of ours.
Even normal PM parts are seldom in stock, pay to fly in a fuel filter? no thanks." - Fred, I'd say you are in general thumbs down toward Volvo Diesels. Any upside at all to Volvo that you see?
Again, Thanks, Art
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capt jerry
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a freind of mine had to wait 5 weeks for a oil cooler and the cost was 2400$ for volvo engine no one had one in stock?
hollywood8118
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one of the things that always amazes me is that a lot of boat owners think that there are not alternatives to some of the extraneous parts on our engines. Oil coolers, fuel filters, transmission coolers, heat exchangers many times do not need to be replaced with the exact original part. Most times they can be replaced with a " universal" part that will function as good or better than the stock part. There will be the need to fab up additional brackets/mounts but is can be done with little hassle in most cases. Granted it may take some thought and trial and error but just about anything is possible
HOLLYWOOD
capt jerry
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the oil cooler was part of the engine block and could nort be jury rigged with another cooler, or it would have been done.sometimes you have to bight the bullet?
Ouch!
I wonder why Volvo parts are as such... just reduced parts sales due to low numbers of engine sales... I guess???
True!
Another black mark toward Volvo diesels.
hollywood8118
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Most of the time a little " Macgyver" engineering can remedy the stock configuration.
We were headed out of one of the southern passes in Fiji on our passage to New Zealand in 1994 when I the bilge alarm went off. A quick assessment was that the heat exchanger had blown through a couple of tubes. We pulled back into the lee of a reef, removed the exchanger... JB welded the offending tubes shut and continued the passage south. When we sold the boat a couple years later the same heat exchanger was in service. Many times yacht owners will ONLY use the " stock" setup as they are led to believe ( a lot of the time by marine trades mechanics ) it is the only way.
HOLLYWOOD
capt jerry
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when you get a chance take a look at a 41TMD volvo nd look at the oil cooler and you might change you mind the casting in the block has two holes that have o rings that the cooler gets hooked on to.the whole deal sucks you cant even plug the holes up and run without the oil cooler
Art, I hope by now you've learned to take what you read on an Internet forum with a grain of salt. In this case, the whole shaker.
You've read about what some guy heard about, you've read speculation that Volvo won't be supporting it's products because it bought another company, and you've read that someone heard about someone who is replacing a perfectly good Volvo engine because they are afraid they won't be able to get repair parts.
Interspersed in the middle of all this crap are a couple posts from folks who actually own and operate a Volvo powered boat. Like these people, I have a Volvo (TMAD41P built in 1999 with over 3K hours). I have had no issues with it and it runs just fine.
Volvo has been around for a long time and it appears it will be around for a long time to come.
My suggestion - If you like the boat and the engine checks out OK, buy it
There are plenty of times jury rigging or substitution will keep an engine going. But if something in the core engine breaks or fails--- which apparently is the case with the engine in our electronics supplier's boat--- you have no choice but to get an original part from the engine manufacturer.
hollywood8118
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Ok.... but your not thinking far enough out side of the box. With the proliferation of cad/cam programming you can walk into a machine shop that can scan the mounting surfaces of the oil cooler to the block, and design a adapter that can then connect the new adapter to the engine block ( with the o rings ) then connect that to a aftermarket cooler. Even the podunk little town I live in ( pop. 9000 ) has a shop that can do this. will this adapter cost less than $ 1000... probably, add aftermarket oil cooler, mounting bracket... back in business.
Ok, I will admit this is out of reach for folks that cannot even change the oil in their boats ... but as I have seen on this forum there are plenty of members that would not even blink at this task.
HOLLYWOOD
That's all very nice, but it's totally impractical for 99 percent of recreational boaters. AND-- if that's what it takes to keep an engine running, then it's not an engine I would want in anything I owned, and I would think it would not be an engine that any manufacturer would want to put in their products. The ideal engine--- particularly one stuck down in a crowded and awkward engine space--- is reliable and long-lived but when it does need repair the repair should be as dirt-simple as possible to make. Not something that requires a frickin' cad/cam shop.
Boeing, whose products make our boats look like single blocks of wood, spends bazillions of dollars on what we call maintainability. The objective being to make the product as easy and as fast as possible to fix. Requiring a customer to break out the cad/cam mill to fix something they ought to be able to remove and replace in 30 minutes is an unacceptable solution, not only to us but to our customers.
On a much smaller scale, a marine or automotive engine is no different. If I have to cobble up or manufacture solutions to overcome an engine problem, I'm not going to figure out how to do that. I'm going to figure out how to get rid of the damn engine.
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CPseudonym
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With a machining and fabrication background I completely agree with the above statement. The factory engineered it and had it fabricated in a machine shop. A competent machinist can reverse engineer it and make it serviceable again. Happens all the time with classic out of production cars and machinery equipment.
Is it pricey? Yes and no, it can be. But not always as pricey as you may be led to believe.
Eventually it will be needed for almost any currently available engine/equipment to keep it running. It is what aftermarket companies step in and do all the time if enough demand is there.
hollywood8118
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Really.. you of all people should notice the vast difference between marine and aviation products and more important their support. In aviation parts, the engineering design/support is a quantum leap ahead of what we get in our boats... not to mention the process of AD's ( airworthiness directives to the non fliers ) to get necessary repairs implemented prior to a critical failure. But even with that govt. mandated program in place a reputable company like Boeing has still unexpected flight control issues in it's 737, and has had 747's lost in flight . But the program catches most issues.
We don't have the luxury in the marine industry of having design changes that are not correct implemented by direction of either the mfg. or the coast guard. And Boeing does regularly do the engineering to make fixes that show up in it's aircraft... they just do a large scale version of what I am referring can be done , engine mounts, door hinges, literally 1000's of changes keep our airplanes very safe. Just imagine if Ford/Lehman had a program in place... fuel pumps, oil pumps would have had fixes done to correct their shortcomings. Just because a mfg. makes something doesn't mean that it is the best, or the only way to do something. It is too bad that just about every boat I have ever seen built prior to 1990 has had to have it's fuel system " cobbled" up with those horrible aftermarket Racor filters... or do you not have one of those cobbled up boats?
HOLLYWOOD
capt jerry
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i never said that the engine wasnt any good all that i said was the parts were hard to get and very expensive,ill take a DD any time,you buy parts in any corner drug store LOL
hollywood8118
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Capt Jerry,
The volvo's do appear to be good base motors, I think one of the issues is that Volvo seems to reinvent the wheel on every new series of marine engine they build, then they discontinue production of parts destined to fail, oil coolers, heat exchangers, exhaust parts. In the recent past I have been researching on one of these engines as a boat I am interested in has a out of production volvo. I have already been looking at the issues with having some of these parts fabricated when/if they fail. On my last trawler the John Deere never needed anything other than raw water impellers after the first season when I had to replace the exhaust elbow/riser.. and I fabricated the unit up myself for a fraction of the John Deere replacement part, but I do know most owners don't want to take on projects like that.
HOLLYWOOD
Art, I hope by now you've learned to take what you read on an Internet forum with a grain of salt. In this case, the whole shaker.
You've read about what some guy heard about, you've read speculation that Volvo won't be supporting it's products because it bought another company, and you've read that someone heard about someone who is replacing a perfectly good Volvo engine because they are afraid they won't be able to get repair parts.
Interspersed in the middle of all this crap are a couple posts from folks who actually own and operate a Volvo powered boat. Like these people, I have a Volvo (TMAD41P built in 1999 with over 3K hours). I have had no issues with it and it runs just fine.
Volvo has been around for a long time and it appears it will be around for a long time to come.
My suggestion - If you like the boat and the engine checks out OK, buy it
TY, Ron - LOL
Although I love to hear actual experiences, opinions, guesses, hear-say and what-ifs, If it all checks out on boat... I'll refill my salt shaker...
That said - There has been plenty input to this thread to chaw-on re Volvo engines!
Art
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