Winter Covers

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The co-worker who owned the sailboat I race-crewed on in the early 80s used a 60w lightbulb in the cabin in the winter. He wasn't trying to keep the interior warm, just keep the humidity at bay. And it worked.

So much so that when we bought our 17' Arima several years later I did the same thing in the little forecabin of that boat on its trailer in the backyard. But the bulbs would burn out on a regular basis so we eventually switched to a pillbox heater/fan unit from West Marine and we've been using that in the Arima
ever since.

I wouldn't do the lightbulb thing today nor would I advocate it. But it does work if the space is not very large.
 
Ron:

Insurance works like this;
The innocent party (third party) is always covered by the "third party liability" coverage of the "at fault" party. Then the small print of his policy permits the insurance company to recover from him what they have paid out, if he was "in breach" of the policy by, eg. committing a crime, such as DUI.
That is exactly the same in the US and in Canada.
 
How about this? :socool:


New Heater Technology

Amazing Breakthrough in Engine Compartment Heater Technology.
Buy yours today at FoodLion, BiLo or WalMart only $2.95 + an empty can of Pork & Beans.
 
The light bulb works in small enclosed (non vented) spaces. A lot of farmers I know hang them in their wellhouse to keep the pump head from freezing. Farmer logic can't be wrong. NOTE: There isn't any fules in the welljhouse
 
If anyone thinks an average lightbulb will keep a typical, older trawler engine room from freezing....I have some great real estate just east of Altantic City I'll let go for a song...:D

When I lived aboard for years on the Chesapeake, I tried those 300 watt magnetic block heaters on my 3208 cats....not even 1 degree rise on the engines...that 600 watts total in the engine room, directly applied to the bottom of the oil pan, vents blocked off and insulating blankets on top of the engines. So keeping pipes from freezing would have been a mistake without the heavy duty normal heating of the boat by living aboard.
 
psneeld said:
Hey does it work???? :D

Will 100 watt light bulb really keep a 1500 pound engine/tranny and another 2000 pounds of steel tanks/fuel warm???? :rofl:
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100watts ... probably not but I have not winterized my 1600lb diesel in 15 years of living aboard (just west of Toronto). A 250watt heat lamp keeps my engine/fuel compartment warm all winter.
 
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boatpoker said:
100watts ... probably not but I have not winterized my 1600lb diesel in 15 years of living aboard (just west of Toronto). A 250watt heat lamp keeps my engine/fuel compartment warm all winter.
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let the rest of the boat go cold and then tell me if that 250 watts would keep anything from freezing....:socool:

when I lived aboard on the Chesapeake, I didn't have ANY heat in the engine room and nothing froze...even when temps fell into the teens...but my cockpit storage, where there was no heat above and that's where my water tanks were, they froze off and on.
 
rwidman said:
re: Denied insurance claims - If insurance companies could refuse to pay claims because someone did something wrong or stupid, they would never pay out a cent. They pay. They might drop you later, but they must pay.

Think about it - can your car insurance company refuse to pay a claim because you drove drunk and had a accident? Because you had a bald tire?
Click to expand...

A direct quote from my policy:

General Warranties Section

In order to keep this policy in effect you must make and must keep certain promises. These are known as warranties, and shall not be interpreted as temporary conditions. If any of these promises are violated, the Policy becomes void in its entirety. No claims will be paid after the violation, whether or not the violation is connected with any claim. Subsequent correction of the violation will not reinstate the coverage.

6. Only UL or CSA approved heaters will be used aboard the Watercraft.
 
Conrad said:
A direct quote from my policy:

General Warranties Section

In order to keep this policy in effect you must make and must keep certain promises. These are known as warranties, and shall not be interpreted as temporary conditions. If any of these promises are violated, the Policy becomes void in its entirety. No claims will be paid after the violation, whether or not the violation is connected with any claim. Subsequent correction of the violation will not reinstate the coverage.

6. Only UL or CSA approved heaters will be used aboard the Watercraft.
Click to expand...


Wow! if your policy has that exact language, what other language does it have that could cause you to have a uninsured loss?


My policy (seaworthy) does not have ANY restrictive language.
 
ksanders said:
Wow! if your policy has that exact language, what other language does it have that could cause you to have a uninsured loss?


My policy (seaworthy) does not have ANY restrictive language.
Click to expand...

The good news.....

6. Only UL or CSA approved heaters will be used aboard the Watercraft

That's about 99% of the heaters you can buy (UL approved) or at least what I would buy....and there's nothing mentioned how they are used/hooked up.

So it seems restrictive buy holy cow...useless to even put it in there except for the really daring folks...you know those...how was it put before????

Oh yeah the... anti marine specific product people .... the ones that might use a Weber charcoal grill to heat the engine room of a gas powered Motor Yacht....:D:D:D



 
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ksanders said:
Wow! if your policy has that exact language, what other language does it have that could cause you to have a uninsured loss?


My policy (seaworthy) does not have ANY restrictive language.
Click to expand...

Mine does not either.
 
psneeld said:
Oh yeah the... anti marine specific product people .... the ones that might use a Weber charcoal grill to heat the engine room of a gas powered Motor Yacht...
Click to expand...



"anti marine specific product people" or Darwin theory prover people?
 
rwidman said:
Yea, they've been known to do that from time to time. CFLs will last longer and use less energy. ;)
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Don't think they'd do much of a job of combatting humidity and holding the temperature up a bit, though. But at least you wouldn't have to pay much to accomplish nothing. :)
 
rochepoint said:
Or you could get a cover custom made, this is our local guy. Boatcovers
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Roche, based on your recommendation, I contacted Chris and will be getting a full cover made for our 49. I've wanted a full cover for years, but could never find anyone to make one for a reasonable price. We have one really good canvas guy in Juneau, but he's way too proud of his work and recently raised his prices to $110/hr :eek: I got an estimate a few months back but couldn't justify the price. For less money, I'll fly Chris up to measure the boat and then he will make the cover in his shop in B.C. Hopefully, I'll get a few years out of it, Thanks for the tip...........Arctic Traveller
 
ksanders said:
Wow! if your policy has that exact language, what other language does it have that could cause you to have a uninsured loss?


My policy (seaworthy) does not have ANY restrictive language.
Click to expand...

I'm travelling at the moment but will reply in a couple of weeks. If memory serves, the other language was also reasonable. My preference is to know ahead of time what might be excluded.

I do know that I eliminated a couple of heaters that were not UL/CSA approved when I was looking for a heater, a number of years ago.
 
Marin said:
Don't think they'd do much of a job of combatting humidity and holding the temperature up a bit, though. But at least you wouldn't have to pay much to accomplish nothing. :)
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I was hoping that most folks in the know would catch the "wink" smiley. Or, someone would bite and ask what size CFLs to get.

Of course, in the USA, the current administration is trying to outlaw incandescent lightbulbs so in a couple of years, CFLs may be your only option. Except for a purpose built heater.
 
Well, incandescent or CFL, a lightbulb isn't going to do much to actually heat anything so a purpose-built heater is the way to go in my opinion. Boat heaters have caused a lot of fires over the years but I believe this has more to do with overloading the boat's (or boathouse's) wiring, heaters that have aged well beyond their sell-by date, careless installation or placement, and so on as opposed to some generic inherent danger with heaters on boats.

Simply "taking the edge off" and keeping moisture at bay doesn't require much heat at all. The heaters we run in the aft cabin and engine room are kept at their lowest settings with the thermostats halfway up. Most people would not consider the boat "warm" if they got on board.

Heating the boat to be comfortable to live or be on can require a lot more heat but the risk can go up along with the temperature. It's the reason the 20-slip boathouse burned to the water in Bellingham this past spring sinking all 20 boats and burning to death the live-aboard couple on one of them.

While I believe there are non-marine heaters that are effective and perfectly safe to use on a boat, I think one has to select and use them intelligently.
 
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I bit the bullet and ordered up the Xtreme 600W heater. Unless we get a ton of snow I'm not really sweating this anymore.

So, I think winterization is now draining the house water and running the pink stuff through. Maybe change the oil & filters, but I may wait for Spring for that. My sea strainer is set up with a valve to a hose I stick in a 5 gallon bucket of anti-freeze and suck through the system and out the exhaust. I'm guessing I'll just run some through, close the seacock and be done each time I take her out for a winter run. Even with a heater I'm going to run the anti-freeze through.

Maybe I'll have to drain the water lift muffler too? Hmmmm. I'll have to think on that one. It's not as easy to get at as the seacock. Running anti-freeze through is probably adequate even if diluted by the water sitting in the muffler. And it's not like the boat will sink if the muffler is damaged by freezing.

I'm open to ideas. Especially easy inexpensive ones.

Canvas? Take the bimini canvas in for the winter?
 
If you determine you can keep sufficient heat on the boat--- and it doesn't take much--- to keep the fresh water system from freezing I'd suggest forgoing the "pink stuff." We used to do this and it took all summer to get the taste and smell out of the water. Plus we had to keep potable water in jugs in the galley since we use the boat year round.

After talking to a friend who kept a 60' converted steel fireboat on a mooring at an island with no groundpower hookup, no power on the boat at all, and no heat and never had a problem with freezing fresh water we abandoned the whole fresh water winterization process and have never had a problem. No more pink stuff, no more awkward jugs of water.

Of course our boat sits in the water year round so that mitigates the temperature inside the boat, and our winter temperatures seldom dip below freezing for a 24 hour period or a period of several days. If the forecast in Bellingham calls for several days of below-freezing temperatures we'll turn on a small pillbox heater we keep in the lazarette with the water tanks during the winter as insurance against freezing but in reality I suspect we would not even have to do that. The rest of the fresh water system--- hoses, pump, water heater, etc.--- are kept from freezing by the heaters we keep in the aft cabin and engine room.
 
I'm beginning to feel more and more like an overwrought, belt-and-braces, hand wringing old woman! OMG, what if .. what if .... :eek:
 
rwidman said:
Do it now to get rid of any acid or other contaminants in the oil. Don't let this stuff sit in your engine for six months or more.
Click to expand...

Will that be a problem if I use the boat a few times during the winter?
 
Man is it realy that time of year again.

I prefer the boat outside to be left to deal with the enviroment. But I did build the aft cabin on the conversion under the Invader Dome. I used plastic pipe and duck tape under a bunch of tarps. I found for added strength through wind and snow load, adding rope works very well. Rope inside running in a way that increased the structure strength. Then I always had rope over the structure to help in over all strength but to stop the tarps from ballooning , flaping, and then tearing. Rope tite over the tarps realy works.

With the old Grenfell we had a custom canvas cover for the boat. We called it the cave and it sure helped keep the boat warm along with dry but very dark. If the ropes where not under and over it in a big wind or snow load life turned not so much fun. But the custom tarp was very easy to remove and install so made using the boat through the winter a breeze.

I have found the insurance underwritters react to the survey more than any internet web forum hear say. I use the oil filled radiator style heaters for my primary heat source. Insurance seemed fine with such. But I also live aboard and needed to have the insurance company grant that on my policy. Just like I had the marina adjust there policy to allow for the dikinson pot oil heater that is my primary heat source for when it gets very cold and or power goes out. My thought is to be honest with the surveryor and insurance undwritter for best results.

I also use the 100 watt light bulb in the lazzeret. To heat the water line that runs along the hull from the tank itself. It has to get very cold and the tank has to be low on water but I can have that line freeze up when there is ice on the river. The ER compartment vents are sealed off for winter and that keeps the area warm with zero condensation or moisture.

I dont change oil for winter as I do use the boat from time to time through the winter. Even if thats just to move for some reason. Changing the oil is not a seasonal event for me.

Winter can be a tough learning curve for new live aboards. But it brings on different challenges scenary places to visit and fun, depending on ones mind set.

All that being said not very many folk would live the way we do but we seem to love it.
 

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BaltimoreLurker said:
Will that be a problem if I use the boat a few times during the winter?
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Not really if you keep bringing the engine up to temp.

If you are going to go through the process of pinking everything...there's really no need for the heater in the Chesapeake unless you expect temps in the teens for a few days...our rule of thumb for our assistance towing fleet is 3 days of freezing temps night and day...when that's expected we winterize the engines/seacocks.
 
BaltimoreLurker said:
I'm beginning to feel more and more like an overwrought, belt-and-braces, hand wringing old woman! OMG, what if .. what if .... :eek:
Click to expand...

Gee, why not bite the bullet and buy a 25 grand Webasto Diesel heater, which will keep the entire boat at dry and warm? :thumb:

In the past two weeks, I have put the pilot house and stern canvas back on, put the plex a glass salon window cover back on, re sealed the deck, another coat of vanish on the weather areas, and in two weeks will put the rest of the canvas/tarps back on for the winter.

I change the oil in the fall, and the little we might start/use the engines has not added much acid/containments. Since we use the boat so little, 4 whole hours this year, we have been taking oil samples, but I still change the oil every other year. :D

Well, I know for sure that I have become a hand wring woman! I refuse to admit I am old. :oops: Live was a lot simpler and less worrying, being an air heads metro sexual that did know as much about boats I know now. My wife says she does not need to worry, as I do enough worrying for both of us. Which makes me worry more as she is so confident in me to handle the situation. Did I check that? What if? I need to double/triple check! What have I forgot? Gees, I am a nervous wreck! :confused: :eek: :banghead:
 
Like a lot of folks, we started out winterizing with the pink / nontoxic antifreeze, but it's expensive and messy. Instead, I bought an inexpensive air compressor and plumbed it into the water pump circuit. Now, if were going to be gone for a while I just hook up the quick connect and open all the faucets and shower heads. The entire process takes about 10 minutes and costs nothing. I do use the pink stuff in the engine raw water system though. I simply close the seacock on the strainer, open the top, start the engine and poor the stuff in until it comes out the exhaust. This does two things, it fills the pump, lines and heat exchanger, and blows most of the water out of the water lift muffler.

Depending on heat to prevent freezing is a risky strategy here in Alaska since winter storms love to knock out the power on the dock at the worst possible time. I'd rather know were safe. In all the years I've been doing this, the worst thing that happened was that a bottle of vinegar froze and when it thawed the whole boat smelled like battery acid. At least that's what my neighbor said when he went aboard to check on the boat while we were on vacation. That one caused me some worry until I got back.....Arctic Traveller
 
re: potable water system winterizing, filling a water heater with antifreeze takes quite a bit of it and it's very difficult to get it all out in the spring so water will continue to taste and smell like antifreeze.

The water heater should have a drain so it's easiest to just drain it. Any residual water can freeze and thaw over the winter without damaging the heater. You may find that a check valve creates a vacuum and prevents draining the tank. Opening the TP valve will relieve the vacuum.

On many boats, the water lines can be blown clear of water with an air compressor. Also, flexible piping such as PEX can withstand some freezing without bursting so if small pockets of water remain there should be no damage.. Leave all the faucets open to relieve any pressure.
 
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