Racor Filters

Marin said:

We have no polishing system on our boat and have never had any water, dirt, growth, etc. in our fuel. None of the people we know and boat with have fuel polishing systems and none of them have had any problems with fuel, either. If a boat needs to have a polishing system run on a regular basis to prevent growth in the fuel I would suspect a problem with the boat's fuel system.

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Or the fuel source.

Like you, I have never had water, dirt, growth, etc. in my fuel. I keep the tanks topped off to minimize condensation and I add a treatment that's supposed to take care of water and any growth.

psneeld said:

Seems like a lot of people might have missed this to say his tanks are contaminated....

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There is only one way for contaminates to get into the filter and that is from the fuel source (the tanks).

markpierce said:

I'm clueless. Some of the fuel was from China. The filter lasted about 1.5 years of use.

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Mark, I am with Marin on this one I can't believe the condition of that filter on a basically new boat. I put a few hundred hours a year on my IG and the filters I take out look new.

Does the Coot have a fuel polishing system? You might want to run all your fuel thru it a few times.

JohnP

rwidman said:

There is only one way for contaminates to get into the filter and that is from the fuel source (the tanks).

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They may be in the fuel but the conditions aren't right for the issue to form...especially the filter that is sitting unused.

I've run a lot of boats with clean tanks, clean fuel (by sight and engine performance but maybe at the microscopic level not perfect) and dirty filters...never a problem....

There's a BIG difference between crap forming on the inside of the filter bowl and what is being picked up in the filter element.

rwidman said:

There is only one way for contaminates to get into the filter and that is from the fuel source (the tanks).

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I will second that. If the filter is full of rust and crud and biologicals, it came from rusty, cruddy, biologically infected tanks.

A new boat should have perfectly clean fuel tanks. Part of the process of building is flushing and cleaning of tank interiors and all associated plumbing. There should not be a speck of dirt or a grain of grinding dust or weld slag in the tank or anywhere else. Are the steel fuel tanks coated internally?

...I can't believe the condition of that filter on a basically new boat...

Does the .... have a fuel polishing system? You might want to run all your fuel thru it a few times.

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Fuel polishing systems are great and changing the Racors when they get clogged or look dirty is easy, but how often do we change the filter (s) on the engine?

A few thoughts concerning fuel polishing might be relevant?

I assume that when you polish you are pumping fuel through a large depth type filter (eg Gulf Coast Filter) back into the tank whence it came. If you are recirculating fuel in this way you need many passes to obtain "clean" fuel. Statistically you can never polish all the fuel because you are always diluting the "clean" fuel with "dirty" fuel remaining in the tank. You need to calculate your fuel polishing rate (gph) and figure on recirculating your fuel about 10 times in total (10 x fuel volume / gph = time to polish) to get relatively clean fuel. A single pass will not achieve much of anything!!
Another approach that might be possible depending on your filter set-up would be to pass the "dirty" fuel through the polisher then feed directly through your Racor en route to the engine. Then a single pass should remove the dirt before it hits the Racor.

If you have the ability (half empty tanks) to pump from one tank to the other, then you can simply pump fuel into one tank then back into the other via the polisher before redistributing evenly to both tanks, though I would only do this while at the dock -- with your amount of fuel it will certainly tip your boat to one side.

Rick, I didn't do a very good job of telling you I agree with you, my issues are just limiting it to Chinese builds, and by claiming that only oversight by an "American" will assure quality. Your premise is correct, only it applies to boats built anywhere. And quality oversight could by anyone with the right abilities looking out for the buyer's interest.

Your caution to a new buyer is good. A boat is a complicated assembly of materials and systems, and it's best to have a qualified advocate involved in the build process.

My comment about the flag was "prideful" nationalism with the economic motive to buy local whenever I can, we just unfortunately don't have many choices when it comes to the kinds of boats most of us enjoy.

I owe you a beer on the aft deck some day.

What is interesting is that the Racors on the side I'm using are a pretty pink after 200 hours having taken the same fuel that is currently sitting in the standby filters. That is what originally lead me to believe what growth I was seeing was developing in the standbys and not coming from the tank. If it was coming from the tanks, wouldn't the filters being used show that same growth trapped?

We do have a Gulf Coast filter, but unfortunately we are sitting almost full. It is plumbed to independently pump from tank to tank, but as you said we can only do that when we can create an empty tank in which to pump the clean fuel. I can separate it to draw from center and send to one side, then draw from center again and send to the other side.

The polishing system is plumbed independent of the fuel/ engine delivery plumbing, so I cannot polish in-line to engine delivery. Generally I like this set up as it allows us isolate and to polish while underway.

I have learned much from this group, thank you for your willingness to help!

Racors

I would not be concerned about the build up on the top of the racor cone, it is most likely asphaltines, also keep in mind that the fuel in the bowl is just in the first stage of the filters process.. the turbine effect that spins water and large debris out of the fuel... if there is no water in the bowl and the element is clean on removal you dont have a issue. If it looks like Mark's element you have a issue ( especially on a boat as new as his ). I ran a double racor setup and always changed the main filter once a year.. and switched to use the secondary filter for the next year. My filters never looked as bad as Mark's... but they would have SOME build up on them. The statement that contaminants only get in with bad fuel is incorrect, remember that air is also drawn into our tanks as fuel is drawn out...and if that air is humid ... we get moisture into our fuel.
So there are really only two concerns:
1- water in bowl
2- clogging of the Primary element

HOLLYWOOD

hollywood8118 said:

The statement that contaminants only get in with bad fuel is incorrect, remember that air is also drawn into our tanks as fuel is drawn out...and if that air is humid ... we get moisture into our fuel.

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Fuel with moisture in it qualifies as "bad fuel" in my book. My statement was that the contaminants can only enter the filter with the fuel. There is only one inlet.

rwidman said:

Fuel with moisture in it qualifies as "bad fuel" in my book. My statement was that the contaminants can only enter the filter with the fuel. There is only one inlet.

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ok... what I Was trying to point out was that even if you get good fuel...even if you polish it... you CAN get moisture into the fuel system through the vent system. the racor should handle this... but the fuel may get " buggy" because of the induced moisture.
HOLLYWOOD

JohnP said:

Does the Coot have a fuel polishing system? You might want to run all your fuel thru it a few times.

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Yes, it has a polishing system and move the fuel from one of the "raw" fuel tanks to a polished-fuel tank. Problem is, the polishing system moves fuel so slowly that I often send raw fuel directly to the engine. Think I need higher-capacity filters and/or pump on the polishing system.

The two filters to the right (the Griffin is a Chinese equivalent of a Racor and their filters are interchangeable) are on the polishing circuit. Its pump is below the Racor on the left.



Anyway, the Racors are doing their job.

Mark:
Last comment!!!
Given the amount of fuel you carry your filter system looks a bot on the light side.
We carry 900 gallons but use 2 Racor 900's (not 500's) and use the big F1 Gulf Coast (not the small one). Perhaps your polishing system is a bit marginal?

Good luck. Let us know if you ever work out what is really happening!!

As others say,a biocide is an obvious first step,something is growing in there. It is hard to accept it is only in the filters, has to be coming from somewhere upstream.
If you decide to add biocide,to get an even mix, put the amount required to treat the tank volume into 5 or 10 litres of fuel and add it to the tanks just before filling. BruceK

a lot of guessing going on......maybe send a fuel sample out for analysis to see if the fuel is even the problem????

or like I said from the vey beginning...if your fuel is clear and bright and the filter element of the used filter is bright pink...I wouldn't worry and just wipe clean the standby filter clean if it bothers you.

5 Micron is way to fine for the first fuel filters. A really good size is 20 micron and the final filters on the engine are the 5 or 2 micron depending on the engine manufacturer. Using 5 micron on the 1st filter just begs for a clogged filter on the 1st rough passage when you shake the crude loose in the tank.

Another issue that has happened to me is that the engine has a very good fuel lift pump and when the Racor element plugged, the suction was enough to rupture the filter element and let the muck through to the final engine filters. Glad the engine had its own filters.

Totally disagree with using 20 micron Racor. We use 2 micron and could see using a 5 micron but why go bigger. The 2 micron on the engine is much more difficult to change when underway. We only change it occasionally always at the dock. The possibility of an air lock after changing is real and not something to risk unnecessarily underway. If you have a back-up secondary Racor ready to switch, then changing out a clogged primary Racor is simple.

20 Micron

Not sure on other engines, but on the Yanmar & Westerbeke that I had in the boat for 30 years never had a problem. Originally I used the same logic of a 5 micron as the 1st filter and the factory 2micron on the engine.

What I found is that you needed to change the Racor often, specially when rocking and rolling in a bad weather in the lower Caribbean. When I changed into the 20 / 2 combination I found that I could change every 400 hrs both filters and never had a plugged filter after making that change.

Also on the Yanmar the engine filter has a manual pump on it, so pumping up the fuel system is only a few moments. Again, not sure on other engines .... some could be a problem I guess.

Chrisjs said:

Totally disagree with using 20 micron Racor. We use 2 micron and could see using a 5 micron but why go bigger. The 2 micron on the engine is much more difficult to change when underway. We only change it occasionally always at the dock. The possibility of an air lock after changing is real and not something to risk unnecessarily underway. If you have a back-up secondary Racor ready to switch, then changing out a clogged primary Racor is simple.

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I have been to a Mack Boring engine class and in that class it was stated that Yanmar wants a 30 micron first stage filter for all of their engines and then the factory final 2 micron. My guess is that the factory knows best so why not comply. It really doesn't cost anymore to do it their way.

Just so happens we have a Cummins!! And with a couple thousand hours under our belt (and braces) will still stick to 2 micron!! Also used to work in the microfiltration industry for a couple of decades.

The head mechanic at the local shipyard, which sells and services Cummins among others, recommends 30 micron first stage Racor with the factory 2 micron on engine filter.

Greetings,
I think we've been down this path before. I'm in the 2 micron Racor, 2 micron CAV crowd. Others are in the graduated camp.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
I think we've been down this path before.

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Yup.

The key to keep the engine running is not the size of the initial filter , rather its weather you have an alarm that lets you know when the filter is plugging and a fast easy switch over to a second filter.

Then the first can be swopped out and returned on line.

Filters are cheap by the case , and if located outside the engine room can be changed with ease.

Mark - For whatever reason you have lots of crud on your primaries. My guess is steel dust from all the steel floor grinding - I've been in Chinese steel fabrication shops and observed the house keeping, not always the best recipe for steel boat building. For a new vessel this indicates a good tank cleaning is in order (not a big deal if ou have access), not just a fuel polishing.

FYI, my 9 year old China steel tanks have thus far been pristine. DeFever though had a QC guy following things pretty closely. My primaries (30u of course!) are relativley spotless after a year, supporting Marin's earlier point.

RIck's point on PAE is worth noting, they offer superb long after sale coverage on workmanship issues. In this case, I guess you get what you pay for.

I like Tom's post. I worked in a machine shop/fab shop for years and there's a lot of black steel floating around in the air. You can sweep it up off the floor.
The description of where the black stuff was and the proximity of the "turbine" part of the filter suggests that heavy stuff would indeed be found there.
My Racor had a 2 micron when new but I switched to 10. I have been getting my engine mounted secondary filter from NAPA and don't know it's rating. My Racor element has come out w a grayish hue color near the bottom. I've thought it was a black mould growth or similar. My tanks are aluminum and 7 years old. I don't think my engine failure this summer was related to any of this. I'm thinking hose and fitting or weak pump now.
Too bad diesel engines are so clean fuel dependent.

Fuel with moisture in it qualifies as "bad fuel" in my book.

By your standards there is no place in the world to fuel up , as moisture (WATER) is present in all fuel .

Fuel to be sold must meet a spec on the quantity of water that is permitted , but for sure its in every gallon you purchase.

"Too much" water in the fuel can be prevented with a Baja filter , but its a slow process to load 1/2 ton of fuel.

Ummm, 5 years on my (Baldwin, I think) filters so far. Maybe I need to get around to changing them. Never a problem and they "look" OK.

Such a PITA location to get at though.

BaltimoreLurker said:

Ummm, 5 years on my (Baldwin, I think) filters so far. Maybe I need to get around to changing them. Never a problem and they "look" OK.

Such a PITA location to get at though.

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Sounds like a good Winter project. Move the fuel filters to more accessible location. Like I did... (Thread: http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s6/fuel-system-upgrade-project-episode-ii-3761.html )