Biodiesel Fuel

I was reading a magazine the other night and I came upon an article on biodiesel for boats. The author seemed to think that biodiesel, at least blends, was the marine fuel of the future. This was fuel made from soy beans, not recycled restaurant frying grease. When I put the magazine down, I noticed that it was several years old.

I haven't seen biodiesel advertised in my area, either for marine use or vehicle use so it appears it hasn't taken the industry by storm as the author predicted.

There was a study published that I read somewhere that rated a 2% addition of biodiesel to standard diesel fuel as one of the best diesel fuel additives available.

So the question is, has anybody seen biodiesel blends in their area? Is anybody on this forum actually using a biodiesel blend in his or her boat? If so, any improvements, changes, or problems associated with biodiesel?

Hello RON

In Brazil we already have automotive biodiesel mixed 8% with the normal Diesel. The word is that nest year, all diesel will be mixed including the marine fuel. We'll see where all this will go. Remember that Brazil has been using ethanol for more than 20 years now. Today, our domestic car industry is mostly comfortable with hybrid gas/ethanol and newcomers, basically Japanese and Koreans are already bringing in hybrid models of the same mode. I have come across biodiesel public transportation buses. The only difference is that they smell like the back of a McDonalds restaurant, they smell like old French fries.

There are no registered complains that I know of.
Let's wait and see

Checkout : Alternative Fuels Data Center: Biodiesel Blends

We have cleaned tanks for FDOT and they really don't like BioDiesel but hey have to use it, gov mandated!

Colombia's diesel is said to be 15% bio-diesel. The local boats haven't said one way or the other but there is an influx of fuel polishing companies there. If you read the literature, it says you're OK to use a blend but the shelf life is not what I think we are all use to. If I had a choice, I wouldn't put it in my tanks and that is what I hear from the marine diesel engine people.

Here in NZ we have fuel available with 5% biodiesel.
My experience is that, although it's about 6% cheaper than straight diesel, we use about 10% more per hour at the same speed. Doesn't seem logical, I know, but I've checked it several times....anyone else?

Couldn't find it quickly...there used to be an online map of biodiesel stations on the Chesapeake bay...there was something like 10-15 of them. I know there aren't too many in NJ.

It was popular with the Chesapeake sailing crowd but for many years was almost 2x as expensive...but what did they care they only bought a few gallons at a time...

The problem I think with biodiesel is that at concentrations above 10 percent like ethanol gas...it is destructive to certain engine parts (rubber, etc) and diesel engine manufacturers were really against it a few years back. However an independent fuel test for lubricity improvement noted a slight mix of biodiesel with regular diesel was a great mix.

Bendit said:

Here in NZ we have fuel available with 5% biodiesel.
My experience is that, although it's about 6% cheaper than straight diesel, we use about 10% more per hour at the same speed. Doesn't seem logical, I know, but I've checked it several times....anyone else?

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I heard through the early reports that US biodiesel at 10% would result in a 5-10% increase in fuel consumption due to the stored energy difference.

Biodiesel use is on a rapid rise in China. There it is made from feedstocks that don't compete with food in terms of land, crops, or water. Their goal is to have all commercial aircraft in China flying on sustainable biofuel by the year 2030 and a good percentage of their trucks and diesel farm equipment run on biodiesel today.

Conversely, after a burst of interest in biofuel in the Puget Sound area the interest seems to have died away. There are people who " cook" their own for their own use but any efforts at large-scale production seem to have faded away. I've never met a boater who used it.

A friend bought a VW made for biodiesel and ran it that way for awhile. But biodiesel at the time was more expensive than other fuels and the places he could get it were few and a long ways away. So after a few months he gave up and switched to regular diesel.

In terms of commercial production the objectives in places like China, the Middle East, Australia, etc. seem to be near term feedstocks being trees like jatropha and soapberry as well as used cooking oil. The long term solution is algae.

I heat my home using used vegetable oil in my modified boiler. The problem I see with biodiesel is that the cost for the material to make it has skyrocketed. I was paying 50 cents a gallon about two years ago for the vegetable and my latest purchase was $2.10 a gallon. The problems I have heard of also is that the bio tends to be a cleaning agent so using it in an older tank could prove problematic. I have also read that there can be issues with compatibility with various rubber parts and hoses. Lastly I think below about 40 degrees the strait bio will gel up.

We've been using a 15% bio blend for the past 7 years (in the PNW). Other than replacing one small section of old hose (most of the system is copper) we've had no issues. Power is a D330 Cat (circa 1970) with just under 10,000 hrs. A recent mechanical survey uncovered no problems. For the older diesels - bio adds lubricosity that's not present in the newer low sulpher blends. Highly recommended if you can find a good source. It's not cheap any more.

psneeld said:

I heard through the early reports that US biodiesel at 10% would result in a 5-10% increase in fuel consumption due to the stored energy difference.

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It looks like you're saying that if you mix 10% stuff in with the fuel, you burn 10% more of the fuel/stuff mixture to get the same energy.

So consumers are paying for the stuff that doesn't provide any measurable energy when (if?) it burns.

Is this like the "new and improved" cookie that has 50% fewer calories, but it's 50% smaller than the original cookie?

Please, don't bring it here.

Bio problems that I know of.

1)It can gel in temps as high as 50 degrees depending on what the bio is derived from.

2)Engines usually require a straight diesel header tank to start and warm the bio fuel through a liquid to liquid coil inside the tank(s).

3)Tank(s) either need to be replaced,or modified,to accept the previously mentioned liquid to liquid warming coil.Old tanks will need to be cleaned out.Bio will break down sludge an clog filters.

4)Filtration on the bio tanks will need to be compatible with bio.

5)Older rubber fuel lines will need to be replaced.Some fuel lines have a tendency to become soft and collapse under the suction of the injection pump's lift pump.This is prone to auto installs,so marine application maybe different.I should note that this is on vehicles running standard fuel hose not fuel injection rated hose.

This the only issues I have noticed from my friends installs on their off road trucks and older cars.I am planning to run a VW based I/O in my boat with a bio tank.Locally I have access to enough veggie oil to run straight waste veggie oil.It's basically run through a system similar to a fuel polisher.

The States LOVE!!! Bio fuel and ethanol as you pay for 11 Gal to get 10 gal of fuel use.

And they tax by the gallon.

Biodiesel can cause problems , esp with old tanks as ALL the crap can come loose at one time.

Sadly the farm lobby loves burning food and ADS loves ethanol subsidies , so there here to stay.

Next down time its time to install those clean out plates in the diesel tanks.

Carry a case of filters and learn how to prime your engines.

Here is what I have found after running it up to 99% in my 2000 VW TDI.

1. Your 10% loss in consumption if figured on a 99% mix. I saw this in real world in my car going from 48 MPG to 42-43MPG.

2. B10 does not gel at 50f, B20 is safe to about 20-30f. B99 will gel at 58 or so.

3. B99 will scrub your tanks. Running this blend carry a case of filters with you. B10 and B20 not as much but be aware.

3. Any blend of Bio will add lubricity, good news for older engines not built for ULS.

4. B99 smells funny when burnt.

As usual, we have some pretty conflicting stories here.

I like the idea of the increased lubricity since the government has mandated ULS fuel with its decreased lubricity and I have an older engine not specifically designed for ULS. I think I would consider using 2% biodiesel for that reason, possibly even 5%. Or I would use small quantities of pure biodiesel as an additive. I just can't remember seeing it around here anywhere, water or road.

Good info here.
Biodiesel - America's first advanced biofuel!

For lubricity why not just add a bit of 2 stroke OB oil?
Seems to me there's a downside to that.

I think this is the study I read a while back:

Lubricity Additive Study Results - Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel Truck Forums

Of course, we don't know the qualifications of the people and equipment involved so we don't know how reliable it is.

We ran 20% bio in our previous boat and the Lehman seemed to love it. Ran smoother with less smoke and fumes. No problems with our old tanks. I like the stuff a lot. We would by it from the trucks so it was fresh.

This was written in April of 2010 and at the time, the official position of Northern Lights/Lugger, regarding Bio Diesel as written by Bob Senter:

“While biodiesel is certainly appealing in some ways, in its current
state of refinement it is totally unsuitable for long range cruisers,
sailboats, boats with very large tanks and standby generators. I will
post the chapter and verse technical background and recommendations
from John Deere, which are mostly in lockstep with other engine
builders.

Here's the short version:
1. Biodiesel degrades quickly, like milk. According to Deere, it must
be used within 90 days of manufacture, a near impossibility in marine
applications and standby generators.
2. Biodiesel's strong solvent-like properties do a great job of
cleaning normal accumulations of asphaltenes from tanks and fuel
lines; the freshly loosened debris plugs the filters.
3. Most of the flexible hose components, gaskets, seals, diaphragms
and O-rings will be gradually softened and/or dissolved by biodiesel.
The problem is insidious because the engine will run extremely well
until the problems begin.
4. Once the dissolved materials begin to enter the fuel system, fuel
injection system failures and upper cylinder failures can occur -
these materials were never designed to be burned in the combustion
chamber. External leaks and filter plugging are the least of your
worries. The longer term fuel system and engine component failures are
likely to be much more oppressive and expensive.

Without debating the merits or challenges of biodiesel, I hope that
these challenges are overcome in the not too distant future. The
reality for now is that it really only works well in some highway
vehicles and agriculture/ construction equipment where all the fuel is
consumed in a few days.”

Best regards,
Bob Senter
Northern Lights/Lugger Service Training
cell: 360-531-1444

Was it mentioned on what blend? It has been my road experience that in low % blends this is not an issue. Typically it is almost impossible to find blends above B20. Trust me if you start running B99 you will see some if not all of these symptoms.

Larry M said:

This was written in April of 2010 and at the time, the official position of Northern Lights/Lugger, regarding Bio Diesel as written by Bob Senter:

“While biodiesel is certainly appealing in some ways, in its current
state of refinement it is totally unsuitable for long range cruisers,
sailboats, boats with very large tanks and standby generators. I will
post the chapter and verse technical background and recommendations
from John Deere, which are mostly in lockstep with other engine
builders.

Here's the short version:
1. Biodiesel degrades quickly, like milk. According to Deere, it must
be used within 90 days of manufacture, a near impossibility in marine
applications and standby generators.
2. Biodiesel's strong solvent-like properties do a great job of
cleaning normal accumulations of asphaltenes from tanks and fuel
lines; the freshly loosened debris plugs the filters.
3. Most of the flexible hose components, gaskets, seals, diaphragms
and O-rings will be gradually softened and/or dissolved by biodiesel.
The problem is insidious because the engine will run extremely well
until the problems begin.
4. Once the dissolved materials begin to enter the fuel system, fuel
injection system failures and upper cylinder failures can occur -
these materials were never designed to be burned in the combustion
chamber. External leaks and filter plugging are the least of your
worries. The longer term fuel system and engine component failures are
likely to be much more oppressive and expensive.

Without debating the merits or challenges of biodiesel, I hope that
these challenges are overcome in the not too distant future. The
reality for now is that it really only works well in some highway
vehicles and agriculture/ construction equipment where all the fuel is
consumed in a few days.”

Best regards,
Bob Senter
Northern Lights/Lugger Service Training
cell: 360-531-1444

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Here is what Volvo Penta has to say about it:

Biodiesel

Concern for the environment is one of Volvo Penta's core values, and we are constantly developing our products in order to reduce emissions. Volvo Penta naturally takes a positive view of the introduction of renewable fuels ("biofuels") that can help to reduce the impact of diesel engines on the environment in the future.
Furthermore, the use of biofuels in the future may lead to a situation where the production of fuels is more sustainable than today. One of the recently introduced biofuels is RME ("biodiesel"), which is produced from rapeseed oil and methanol. Today, biodiesel is the most common alternative to diesel. According to the EU's EN 590 standard for diesel fuel, it is currently permissible to blend up to 5 % biodiesel into normal diesel. Accordingly, biodiesel might already be present in the diesel used in the marine sector.
Volvo Penta recommends its customers to operate Volvo Penta's diesel engines only on diesel fuel that conforms to EU standard EN590.
Volvo Penta's diesel engines can be operated on diesel fuel with a higher blend of biodiesel than 5 %- in other words, a higher proportion than stipulated in the EU standard EN590. If such a fuel is used, the engine's emission levels may increase slightly. The engine will also need more frequent service intervals to avoid excessive wear and shorter lifetime.


Volvo Penta's guarantees do not cover damage caused by too high blend of biodiesel.
Volvo Penta makes the following recommendations to customers who wish to use fuel with higher biodiesel content than stated in the EU standard EN 590:

• The biodiesel must be of good quality, which means that it must comply with the EU's EN14214 fuel standard.
• Biodiesel is an efficient solvent that can, when first used, dissolve constituents in the fuel system. The fuel filter should therefore be changed after a short period of usage.
• Biodiesel is not a fuel with long-term stability, it can oxidize in the fuel system. The entire fuel system must be emptied and operated on normal diesel before any extended period of still standing, such as during winter storage.
• Biodiesel has a negative effect on many rubber and plastic materials. Rubber hoses and plastic components in the fuel system must be checked regularly and changed at more frequent intervals than usual to avoid leakage.
• Biodiesel impairs the lubricating capacity of oil due to its higher boiling point. The intervals for changing lubricating oils and oil filters must be halved compared with normal.

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Note; Apparently diesel fuel purchased in Europe may already contain 5% biodiesel without consumers even knowing it. They approve of up to 5% biodiesel without any changes in operation or maintenance.

Interesting information. We have a late model diesel car (twin turbo) and the manufactuer only allows up to 2% biodiesel. That is particularly interesting since it appears from Volvo that in Europe they can run 5%, and our car is from Europe. However, our car has a urea system to reduce particulate emissions that is not required in Europe, so that may be part of it. I have heard about improved lubrocity with biodiesel, but can't recall the source. I've also heard it increases the cetane rating, which is woefully low in the US compared to Europe (40 at most stations here, 50 in the EU), but if people are seeing lower efficiency with bio, that would contradict the cetain being higher, as I understand.

I read Rwidman's post on this subject yesterday and was tempted to post my own Biodiesel experience and opinions but I was at 'lunch' reading not eating and I knew I couldn't compose my thoughts before my 'lunch' was over. Yesterday eve, I decided this was a subject that had more 'experts' that had read stuff that nobody's mind is going to be changed. This has been the case with ethanol blended gasoline since Christ was a pup.

Here it is a day later, and in spite of why get involved attitude, I'll take the plunge.

I live in the midwest. Ethanol or 'gasohol' has been commonplace since the late 70's. here in Iowa, Illinois, and Wisconsin. The doomsayers have been vocal since its inception. Due to tax incentives, it has been cheaper than regular gas since the gitgo. I like cheap, I have used it everytime it is available since in my vehicles and inboard boats. I tried to avoid it for use in my outboard motors, snowmobiles and 2 stroke tools, chainsaw, weed whacker, etc. but alas, I used it there too, due to poor product labeling or no other choice. The only problem I ever experienced from it was a chainsaw whose in tank fuel hose swelled up and fell off. and an old Chevy pickup whose plastic carburetor floats absorbed gas and sunk. Those problems were before 1980. I have had no more problems since. Does gasohol produce the same gas mileage? Informed sources say no, but in my experience the difference is less than the margin of error of the measurement.
My experience with Biodiesel is more limited. My boat came with roughly 300 gallons of biodiesel when I bought it, in January 2011. The PO said it was cheaper in Nashville at the time. He inquired about using it and was told to beware of rubber fuel hose. He said he changed out everything that was subject to degradation. ????? I obviously used all the fuel the boat came with. I haven't made an effort to find biodiesel since but have no doubt as to its availablity. I cannot tell any difference between the biodiese and the #2 offroad I have used since, without the use of lab grade instrumentation. My only subjective observation is that the biodiesel is supposed to smell like french fries, it doesn't to me. It smelled more like I remember as gas powered RC airplane fuel. In my mind I would rather smell petro diesel exhaust. The Biodiesel did fine in temps just above freezing when I bought the boat though.
I am an engineer working for John Deere. Deere makes money selling construction, forestry equipment, engines including marine, but needless to say the biggest part of the enterprise is agriculture. Anything that is good for Agribusiness is good for John Deere. My end of the business is crop harvesting. Ethanol can be produced with many other commodities than corn. Biodiesel can be produced with other things than soy beans. The economics are evolving. It doesn't take 5 gallons of diesel to produce 4 gallons of ethanol as the the critics would have you believe. The future probably centers around biomass. Deere is actively working on Biomass harvesting.
The following is Deere web information about biodeisel.
Biodiesel from John Deere
This is interesting reading for anybody who doesn't already know more than they need to on the subject,

Read the Biodiesel Brochure hyperlinked on the right side of the page. As well as the marine engine links on the left.

To be clear, my only interest in biodiesel is the possibility that a small amount may be the best additive to conventional diesel fuel. No politics, no environmental concerns although if it works as well, costs the same, and is better for the environment, that would be a plus.

Obviously, biodiesel hasn't caught on in a big way or it would be available at the corner gas station. Checking the link a few posts up, it looks like I would have to drive about 70 miles to the closest biodoesel source. And that's 20% biodiesel so I would have to haul a large quantity to end up with 2% in my boat.

I will keep an open mind,

rwidman said:

it looks like I would have to drive about 70 miles to the closest biodoesel source.

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Try this guy on Montague St. - Charles Fox 843.303.3334.

He has a biodiesel station and blends biodiesel that he gets from a local source (that won't sell retail unfortunately) but he is reported to sell "neat" biodiesel so you can blend what you want for lubricity enhancement. Price is reported to be about the same as petro-diesel.

Let us know how it works out.

RickB said:

Try this guy on Montague St. - Charles Fox 843.303.3334.

He has a biodiesel station and blends biodiesel that he gets from a local source (that won't sell retail unfortunately) but he is reported to sell "neat" biodiesel so you can blend what you want for lubricity enhancement. Price is reported to be about the same as petro-diesel.

Let us know how it works out.

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Thanks for the info. I have full tanks right now and the fuel has been treated but I'll keep this in mind. There may be a trip soon that will use some fuel up.

Carolena said:

I've also heard it increases the cetane rating, which is woefully low in the US compared to Europe (40 at most stations here, 50 in the EU), but if people are seeing lower efficiency with bio, that would contradict the cetain being higher, as I understand.

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The cetane rating (for all practical purposes) only effects engine starting characteristics and some emissions in some circumstances. It is a measure of how quickly the fuel will ignite at a certain compression ratio on a single cylinder test engine.

Calculation of the cetane index can vary considerably among testing labs. The standard method of calculation means that 95 percent of labs will rate the same fuel sample between 44 and 52. American diesel is required to meet a minimum cetane rating of 40, that doesn't mean that is as high as it gets. So called "premium diesel" has a higher rating of 47.

I think you will find that as long as the cetane number meets minimum specifications, any difference in engine efficiency will be so small that measuring it outside the lab would be difficult.

Europeans have higher standards for pollution control than we do and require a higher minimum cetane rating because they use far more diesel vehicles than we do and a higher rating means less pollution when starting a cold engine.

I ran from Norway to Africa on B100

An old diesel engine will run on B100.

Diesel engines was made in the late 1800`s by Rudolf Diesel. They originally ran on peanut oil, but since that was hard to come by in Northern Europe at the time, a waste product of petrol production (now called diesel because of the engine) was superb to use in a slow going engine. The diesel engine was priarily used for tractors and tanks. Things that at the time was ment to go slow with a relatively slow RPM who did not need the explosive power of gas.

I am not a mechanic, nor an engineer, but I wanted to make my 1999 Land rover defender run on B100 on the TD5 engine. All but a few told me they "knew a guy" who tried it and broke his engine, but none could name him.

I decided to try, and a local company named bio 8 (Bio8) funded the project. A friend of me who are going to live aboard an old landrover ambulance helped me do the project. We fitted a 300 liter truck fuel tank in the back of my car with a metal coil in it. We ran the coolant water from the engine through it and warmed up the biofuel that way to about 70 degrees. After the fuel was warm enough, I switched from regular diesel to bio fuel on my engine.

Norway is a cold country and B100 tend to get like wax when it is cold. The solution is to have two tanks. A small regular diesel tank to start the engine and warm up the biomass (and to "flush" out remaining bio fuel 5 minutes before i stop the engine). I start and stop my engine on regular fossile diesel, so there is a need for a two tank system for this to work in colder climate.
A friend of mine drives on b50 during the winter months (unmodified engine and fuel system) and b100 during summer months. I had a bio-fuelpump dedicated to my b100, so I turned off the normal diesel pump and used my biopump when using bio. I had a switch for that in the front seat of my car, and it would change seamless and actually reducing RPM when I changed to bio. Engine ran smoother on it.

To get FREE bio fuel, you just go to the local burger joint and get their old used frying oil for free. You prefilter it down to 10 microns (who is what most diesel filters filter). You can get washable filters on ebay for 10$.

We ran 10.000 km + on this. All across Europe, from Norway to Morocco in Africa.

There is no need to buy biofuel. The used vegetable oil is better than new oil, cause used oil contains less water as it has been boiled out. The fumes will smell exactly like the things cooked in the oil. If it was made chips in the oil, your car/boat will smell like chips while driving it, but hey... is the guy behind you that is going to smell that, not you

To make biofuel get it in cans, let them sit for a couple of weeks to let the gunk sink to the bottom, and then prefilter it. Thats it. Free fuel.

Downsides:

1. Hoses will crack after a while
Solution: Replace hoses with acid proof ones when they crack.

2. Filters will probably clog
Solution: Repace filters. Problem will only sustain while the biofuel (solvent) cleans out old carbon chunks of the engine. After 1 or 2 filter changes, your engine should be fine. Anyway, the price of a couple of filters are cheaper than diesel and a bit of acid proof fuel line when your fuel is free.
Another option is to have a dedicated bio pump and put a t-piece right where the engine block intake is and have diesel in one and bio on the other side of the inlet.

3. You loose about 10% power.
Solution: You can use additives to get more power. Recipes at youtube.
If power-loss is acceptable, you still get free fuel.

I want to eventually run my trawler on b100 that I make my self.