Noobie Hello!

While having no mortgage on my home and boat, the government (e.g. fellow citizens) collect rent/property taxes on them, so it looks my ownership is only nominal.

Having trouble finding Bayliners in the Northeast. May go check out that Chris Craft this weekend. Thx for advice on Volvos. Any other "brand" boats I should look at? So far the Bayliner looks to be a good choice, if I can't find a trawler...

veprjack said:

Having trouble finding Bayliners in the Northeast. May go check out that Chris Craft this weekend. Thx for advice on Volvos. Any other "brand" boats I should look at? So far the Bayliner looks to be a good choice, if I can't find a trawler...

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The most economical "trawler" you can find is an old sailboat. They are very efficient, single engine usually (lightly used to boot), and usually very cheap. Especially if you don't really want to sail much and the sails are trashed.

Search the internet and there are several trawler yacht conversions of sailboats. One that I remember was "Winnie the Poo".

I thought of doing it myself when I was having trouble finding trawlers in my price range. Good news...pretty seaworthy...bad news, not as much storage space.

I do not recommend boats as a lot depends on your likes/dislikes and area. I assume since you own a sail boat that you know the weather in you area, Massachusetts? Most boats are not live aboard ready for the colder/wet/snow/windy climate. Boats have very little insulation, so the boat should have a good/reliable heating besides the AC dock power. Also moisture/condensation is a big problem. Then there is water, waste, refrigeration and creature comforts to consider. If you plan on being a live aboard make sure it live abord ready, and you have the funds. While looking at boats also look at marines and talk to the Live A Boards.

Might want to read some of the other discussions under live a board.

Trawlers call to me! Roomy, sturdy, etc. Did you have other suggestions?

Sure , Most (but not all) trawler folks are interested in going slow , displacement speeds , and burning as few gal/hour as can be done.

There are many style boats that have room and are efficient at modest speed.

Take the square RT of the lwl (length on waterline) , and plan on that in K as your base speed.

In other words a 40 ft boat , say 36 on the lwl will run 6K (7 lubber mph) on very tiny fuel. 1.5 to 3 GPH.

So look at everything that is the right size , sport fisherman , 'MOTOR YACHT'
what ever , as the space in some will amaze you.

The key is that an over sized engine will frequently give problems from being underloaded (assuming diesel power).So look for boats 40 ft with well under 200hp advertised. Any 40 ft with 200-500 hp is off the list.

Gas engines do not have the under loading problems , so a 36 Uniflite with gas engines might just do the trick.

A friend sold a Hatteris 40 for about $20K , a fairly inexpensive way to travel.

The majority of NON TRAWLERS (made in USA) may have solid GRP, so the horror of leaky teak decks , over plywood does not usually exist.

Good hunting.

FF

Considering a 27' Albin as minimum. Will have to board one to see if I like it. The 30' version or the 28' Cape Dory would probably be good, but my budget is so tiny at $30K.....

veprjack said:

Considering a 27' Albin as minimum. Will have to board one to see if I like it. The 30' version or the 28' Cape Dory would probably be good, but my budget is so tiny at $30K.....

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If your budget is $30K, I have to ask if you've considered ownership costs?

Dockage? Insurance? Personal Property taxes (in some states)?

All the above does not even consider using the boat or maintenance or repairs, just owning it. This could easily be $5K or more each year.

TY - the budget is for the purchase costs only, which is why I am I am looking @ one this week listed at $24K - PLENTY of extra $ for taxes, etc. And we all know that a listing price is rarely what one pays.

The costs of ownership should not exceed those I already experience with my Pearson 303; my dock fees alone will go down by $180. I will obviously burn more fuel than I do now, but that is a cost I can control.

Welcome vprjack!
I share your excitement and frustration. I'm another noobie not willing to spend over a hundred thousand on a boat, whether it be a toy/lifestyle/hobby/investment. I think I finally found mine though, after a year of searching. Be patient, there are thousands of boats out there. Many of the older, lower priced boats are selling due to the owners having problems maintaining them. Beware. The taiwanese trawlers are beautiful, but many lower priced ones have had water leaking into the core via the teak decks or windows. Repairing them may equal the cost of your purchase price. There are very good ones out there, but they are in demand.
Buy a style of boat to suit your needs, whatever that may be. Rather than a boat that requires a refit, I would suggest looking for a boat owned by someone who has invested many hours into and is complete, but outdated (preferably butt ugly). Perhaps owned by a older couple, with the original decor from 1972, with mauve upholstery and curtains. Trawlers are fairly trendy right now so anything that is really eyecatching sells for a good price (considering the overall market).
Also shop outside the normal brokers and websites. Talk to as many people as possible. You will find it eventually and you'll know it when you do.

Few folks can do ALL the repairs a fixer will require.

A crap fuel tank requires the engine to be removed on some boats , to R&R the tanks.

Rotten plywood "teak" decks require different skill sets.

You will easily blow your budget if purchased labor is required.

Be realistic on how many months /years work you are willing to do to "save" money.

Someone suggested a Bayliner - they have an interesting 32' twin diesel with a unique queen berth which is more center than aft. Even a noob like me knows it won't handle rough seas like a trawler, but maybe I have to compromise a little sea worthiness for something that would be comfortable to live aboard, and that I could AFFORD. Check this out and let me know what you think. Used 1989 Bayliner 3288 Motoryacht, Chesapeake City MD - 101830901 - BoatTrader.com

I know nothing about Bayliners regarding the need to fix them up as one must with leaky Taiwan trawlers. IF they usually require fewer repairs than affordable trawlers, maybe I'll have to downsize my dream and take a look at them? I was even considering a 27' Albin w/aft cabin, but that might be too small - beautiful and surprisingly sea worthy boat though.

Bottom line is my puny budget and limited skills are going to mean patience and compromise. THANK you for your thoughtful and very helpful responses. I am all over the place and hope I don't drive you guys nuts! Lol...

veprjack said:

Someone suggested a Bayliner - they have an interesting 32' twin diesel with a unique queen berth which is more center than aft. Even a noob like me knows it won't handle rough seas like a trawler,

----snip---

Bottom line is my puny budget and limited skills are going to mean patience and compromise. THANK you for your thoughtful and very helpful responses. I am all over the place and hope I don't drive you guys nuts! Lol...

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Not all trawlers are created equal and the vast majority of the under 42 crowd out there aren't passagemaker's either. While many can comfortable cruise around the entire Western Hemisphere...it should only be done with gaining MUCH experience.

And some of those smaller bayliner models if memory serves me correct (a few good friends had them)...they probably suffer neglect WAY better than the 80"s Taiwanese crowd of trawlers.

TY

psneeld said:

Not all trawlers are created equal and the vast majority of the under 42 crowd out there aren't passagemaker's either. While many can comfortable cruise around the entire Western Hemisphere...it should only be done with gaining MUCH experience.

And some of those smaller bayliner models if memory serves me correct (a few good friends had them)...they probably suffer neglect WAY better than the 80"s Taiwanese crowd of trawlers.

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Agreed-didn't mean to imply anything with a "trawler label" could weather "A Perfect Storm", (which took place not far from my mooring-lol). Just wanted members of this forum to know I wasn't putting Bayliners in the same class.

An experienced mariner at my dock told me that Bayliners can SWAY back and forth like a cork in 4'+ seas compared to most trawlers. But when I look at the primary use of my next purchase, in MY budget, it's important for me to minimize initial repair/upgrade costs. I do plan to take some 100 mile "coast hugging" excursions so it would be great if I could find one ready to go. But it will primarily be used as my home, so...

Am I understanding you correctly - in general, a Bayliner would probably show less "damage" from neglect than a trawler in my budget? Still assuming caveat emptor when bringing out my checkbook!

veprjack said:

Agreed-didn't mean to imply anything with a "trawler label" could weather "A Perfect Storm", (which took place not far from my mooring-lol). Just wanted members of this forum to know I wasn't putting Bayliners in the same class.

An experienced mariner at my dock told me that Bayliners can SWAY back and forth like a cork in 4'+ seas compared to most trawlers. But when I look at the primary use of my next purchase, in MY budget, it's important for me to minimize initial repair/upgrade costs. I do plan to take some 100 mile "coast hugging" excursions so it would be great if I could find one ready to go. But it will primarily be used as my home, so...

Am I understanding you correctly - in general, a Bayliner would probably show less "damage" from neglect than a trawler in my budget? Still assuming caveat emptor when bringing out my checkbook!

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Correct and people who speak poorly of Bayliners usually do from ignorance. They have their place and yes a poorly maintained Bayliner is probably a cheaper, maybe even better start than a poorly maintained older taiwan boat.

And I'd be careful about speaking of seakeeping ability, the 55 Viking motoryacht I ru for a guy every now and then is so bad without her stabilizers, that the pro captain from Charleston wouldn't bring her home last year in just a few foot following seas.

psneeld said:

Correct and people who speak poorly of Bayliners usually do from ignorance. They have their place and yes a poorly maintained Bayliner is probably a cheaper, maybe even better start than a poorly maintained older taiwan boat.

And I'd be careful about speaking of seakeeping ability, the 55 Viking motoryacht I ru for a guy every now and then is so bad without her stabilizers, that the pro captain from Charleston wouldn't bring her home last year in just a few foot following seas.

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That looks like an interesting boat at a good deal. A good survey for hull and engines will tell the story. I would check out parts availability for the engines. It looks like it could be a deal.

Yes it does look like a lot of boat for the money. They have a poor reputation for perhaps little reason. Probably because they are so common. That makes for good value buying.
I have heard that the issue with the BL 3288 isn't so much the lack of seaworthiness, but with the soft chines there can be a fair amount of rocking at rest. There is an Bayliner owners forum that would be worth researching. BAYLINER® OWNERS' CLUB
It has a livaboard forum section as well.

TY

AusCan said:

Yes it does look like a lot of boat for the money. They have a poor reputation for perhaps little reason. Probably because they are so common. That makes for good value buying.
I have heard that the issue with the BL 3288 isn't so much the lack of seaworthiness, but with the soft chines there can be a fair amount of rocking at rest. There is an Bayliner owners forum that would be worth researching. BAYLINER® OWNERS' CLUB
It has a livaboard forum section as well.

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Awesome - will check it out.

Not too long ago there was a blog I read where a Canadian couple took their Bayliner motoryacht to the Keys then on to Belize....I think it may have been a 38 footer.... so cruising one pretty hard is not out of the question if you have the experience.

A 27' Catalina circumnavigated successfully too! And some "rowboats" have crossed the Atlantic. Experience and luck play a part.

But it IS encouraging to hear "seaworthiness" stories about a boat I may end up with. Thanks for the encouragement. I just joined the Bayliner forum, so that should help me!

veprjack said:

............... Or maybe I just don't have enough $ to be thinking about a toy, ER-I mean trawler, that would be my 24/7/365 home? It's possible that a $30K budget isn't enough to purchase one in a condition I could "live" with and fix up?

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Honestly, I think you would have to come across a very unusual and lucky deal to find a safe, operable trawler (or any boat) that you could live on for $30K or anywhere near that figure.

Of course,I don't know your standard of living. There's a guy living on a derelict sailboat with no mast in Charleston in the middle of the river. He comes and goes in a canoe wih an electric motor. I assume he poops in a bucket and dumps it overboard at night.

A 1978 marine trader next to me just went for $20,000. The engine was 10 years old with 900 hours and the hull was excellent. It probably needed $3K in repairs, but I test drove it with no problems. I just simply didn't care for the boat. Maybe I shouldn't be fussy on my budget, but - But, there are certainly nice boats out there which don't require pooping in a bucket...

My neighbor just bought a 1979 Marine Trader for $5,000. He will put a lot of sweat equity into it, but claims he will only spend $8K on materials. He IS handy.

veprjack said:

A 27' Catalina circumnavigated successfully too! And some "rowboats" have crossed the Atlantic. Experience and luck play a part.

But it IS encouraging to hear "seaworthiness" stories about a boat I may end up with. Thanks for the encouragement. I just joined the Bayliner forum, so that should help me!

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Experience whittles the luck part down quite a bit...

Maybe most people you are probably talking to don't have that kind of experience.

There are PLENTY of boats that can be comfortably cruised and lived aboard if all you are talking is coastal cruising with the occasional 100-150 mile offshore passage. I'll be the first to admit that the run to Belize for that couple was truly an adventure...but being Canadian...they did hop along the Cuban coast.

So don't let anyone convince you that there aren't boats out there that can do what you wan't even for 30K, they may not be trawlers, they may not be diesel, they may not have all the bells/whistles or creature comforts...but they are just as safe and liveable as many other boats out there.

I've made the run back and forth to Florida many times as a delivery Captain (not as many as some ) and I would say 90% of the time I've made the run in the Spring and Fall you could have done the run (safety wise) in a 20' bowrider (yes you might have gotten spray a few times ).

In all those trips I've only lost one 1/2 day due to weather...granted I've adjusted departure dates to hit wx windows but nothing major and all the runs were pretty milk run like.

Bruce Kessler (some consider him the father of powerboat cruising) said at one seminar I was teaching with him something that I would never forget and always pass along. When asked how did he handle heavy weather after 50,000 miles of global cruising he replied with something like "I don't know, I really haven't been in any and there's no reason to"...wiser words were never spoken from an experienced cruiser.

PSneeld

Agree with you! And, I remember that quote too. I appreciate all the help from the kind and knowledgeable people on this forum, especially in light of the fact that I will probably not end up with a trawler.

If anyone can think of other options for me, given mt budget... I am encouraged by some Bayliners - but that is only from Internet viewing AND, they seem to be rare around here as opposed to out west and the PNW. The Albin would prob be too small, but I KNOW there is a boat out there with my name on it!

veprjack said:

PSneeld

Agree with you! And, I remember that quote too. I appreciate all the help from the kind and knowledgeable people on this forum, especially in light of the fact that I will probably not end up with a trawler.

If anyone can think of other options for me, given mt budget... I am encouraged by some Bayliners - but that is only from Internet viewing AND, they seem to be rare around here as opposed to out west and the PNW. The Albin would prob be too small, but I KNOW there is a boat out there with my name on it!

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I would think most people here could really care less aout the word trawler and feel cruiser is way more appropriate...not trying to insult anyone's boat but I would hope it's about being underway rather than tied to the club float for all to see...not to say that some appreciate looks...it's just that is wide open for interpretation anyhow.

Next is how does the boat meet your needs to travel? Many have found their sailboats just fine except for the lack of a protected helm...in many geographic areas that can be fixed with a large, hard dodger.

Not for me...stil can't get use to living in a sailboat hull ...but that's me. However, a sailboat without a mast meets many peoples requirements of a trawler, just not the living spaces...you decide...what can you and what can't you live with? Could you keep your sailboat, add a hard dodger and lose the mast or change the rig? may be cheaper in the long run and the result is a way more seaworthy boat than many of the older trawlers you'll find. But that "real seaworthiness" isn't that important if you are just coastal crusin'.

The other extreme is a houseboat...I just ungrounded a 50 foot Gibson houseboat that had more trips up and down the ICW between NJ and Florida than many "cruisers" ever will. And I don't know the exact purchase price, but a quick seach produced 10 that were asking less than $60K and I'll bet most go in the 40's. That meand there's many more out there that are rougher and didn't make the yachtworld cut that would be in the 30's. I came very close to buying one but my marina at the time didn't allow houseboats....

Good idea!

I like to consider options, and you have mentioned a good one I hadn't thought of. But I need to make a clean break and I want something faster than 4 or 5 knots, even if only going up to 8.

Right now, I am considering a Bayliner 32', which will mean more power, liveaboard ability, storage, etc for a little compromise on my preference to keep it simple with one engine, etc.

psneeld said:

I would think most people here could really care less aout the word trawler and feel cruiser is way more appropriate...not trying to insult anyone's boat but I would hope it's about being underway rather than tied to the club float for all to see...not to say that some appreciate looks...it's just that is wide open for interpretation anyhow.

Next is how does the boat meet your needs to travel? Many have found their sailboats just fine except for the lack of a protected helm...in many geographic areas that can be fixed with a large, hard dodger.

Not for me...stil can't get use to living in a sailboat hull ...but that's me. However, a sailboat without a mast meets many peoples requirements of a trawler, just not the living spaces...you decide...what can you and what can't you live with? Could you keep your sailboat, add a hard dodger and lose the mast or change the rig? may be cheaper in the long run and the result is a way more seaworthy boat than many of the older trawlers you'll find. But that "real seaworthiness" isn't that important if you are just coastal crusin'.

The other extreme is a houseboat...I just ungrounded a 50 foot Gibson houseboat that had more trips up and down the ICW between NJ and Florida than many "cruisers" ever will. And I don't know the exact purchase price, but a quick seach produced 10 that were asking less than $60K and I'll bet most go in the 40's. That meand there's many more out there that are rougher and didn't make the yachtworld cut that would be in the 30's. I came very close to buying one but my marina at the time didn't allow houseboats....

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If you are like me and want to keep fuel costs down...even my 40 footer is only gonna get pushed to 6.5...MAYBE 7 knots most of the time.

Your sailboat should be able to motor that fast easy and burn probably half to 2/3 of what my trawler will.

Again I can relate to the limited and to me not very livable spaces on a 30 foot sailboat (I lived on a Cape Dory 30 Ketch for 3 years in Ft Lauderdale- nice weather made it possible). So I can see where you would like to change styles...but if it meant cruising or not...I'd be slapping together a hard dodger and hacksawing that mast before I sat at home thinking about it!!!!

Sawing my mast!

You DO make a valid point, but I may seriously consider one like this. Used 1987 Bayliner 3288, Delran NJ - 101690048 - BoatTrader.com

Pictures can be deceiving, but it APPEARS to be a lot of boat for the money. If nothing else, it shows you what I am considering - it may burn 6 or even more gals per hour, but I think it cruises at 12 knots,so...

Good looking boat. If it passes your inspection make an offer contingent on you getting a good survey report.

Crap - its gas...

Bayliners are probably the most numerous production brand in the PNW, not surprising since a lot of their models were built here. Owners take them everywhere--- BC islands, SE Alaska, etc.

All boat makes have their strong and weak points. But the reputation of boat brands is, I think, more about the owners than about the boats. Bayliners tend to be less expensive than many other brands which means they are affordable to a larger market. Which in turn means that some or many are purchased by more casual boaters than the sort of people who participate in forums like this.

I've met people with Bayliners who use them as dock queens and people with Bayliners who go to Desolation Sound, Alaska, Haida Gwai, and the west coast of Vancouver Island in them. I've also met Gand Banks owners in each of those same camps.