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Old 05-30-2017, 02:25 AM   #1
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WTB - Cruiser / Trawler

Hi All,
Posting in the hopes that we can find a semi-local boat after TWO failed surveys/sea trials. At this point we're kind of back to square one and our budget is a moving target, depending on the boat in question....

We had finally settled on Bayliner 4588s, and have surveyed two now that ended up having MAJOR issues which would have added $30k-$60K to the boat in repairs, before the first "upgrade" could be considered. One had global issues....basically every system on the boat needed major repairs or troubleshooting. The other one sailed through the mechanical survey and sea trial....but ended up with 3/4 of the flybridge and the entire port stringer (and maybe/likely more) completely rotted. Disappointed does not begin to describe how we feel at this point (not to mention many thousands lighter in our pockets).

We had settled (after 5 years of looking) on the 4588s because, despite Bayliner's reputation, the layout of this boat really, really works for us. I am not a big fan of ladders, and we have two large dogs (one is a mastiff....) that we can not be heaving onto deck....so we loved the level entry, level salon, and small stairs to pilot house, flybridge, and staterooms, and some of the other creature comforts these big Bayliners offer.

Anyhoo, now we're back to the drawing board and hoping we can get more bang for our buck by dealing directly with folks instead of the broker route, since that hasn't seemed to help us in any way thus far.

What we are looking for:
Must Haves -
Budget: <$125,000 cash (and for $125,000 it would need to be turnkey)
36-50ft LOA
Twin diesels - prefer Cummins, Detroits, or Cats
<3500hrs on motors
DIY or fixer okay...hubby works for a boatyard...but needs to be seaworthy from day #1
NO MAJOR DEFECTS! We don't care about old electronics, ugly carpet/upholstery, bright work that needs help, etc.....but bad motors and rotted decks are a complete deal-breaker.
Must be insurable.......

Nice to have -
Level entry
3 state rooms, but 2 is fine
2 heads
Galley up
Recent electronics (within 5 years)
Tender (preferably NOT attached to the swim platform)
Full enclosures up & and down

We're open to a variety of boats but are definitely looking for something with "Liveaboard" qualities.

We are located near Bellingham / Anacortes / Everett, so local leads would be very greatly appreciated. Our house is already sold. We have cash burning holes in our pocket.....

Someone send a good boat our way, please!
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Old 05-30-2017, 05:04 AM   #2
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Hi

You mentioned being "many thousands lighter in the pocket" Think of how much you saved by NOT buying those boats. That was money well spent.

I don't have any advice for you but I expect someone who does will be able to give you better guidance if you can describe your intended useage once you have the boat.

Once you get the boat will you be doing day trips from your home marina, heading to Tahiti, or cruising for a week or two at a time. Do you think you'll always be tied up at night or will you anchor as well? Will you stay in Washington for winters or head south ?

Good luck in your quest.
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Old 05-30-2017, 06:21 AM   #3
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I'd suggest narrowing your size range down. What speed and where do you want to cruise? BTW, what does your mate do in the boat yard? These skills and contacts should be a real plus in a boat search.

A good 36' - 40' vessel may well be possible for less than 125K, a 45' vessel not likely. Lots of attractively priced fixer uppers out there, sounds like you found a few. Maybe your low priced haves and reality don't match. Eliminating brokers will take about 90 % of the vessels out of the running in the PNW. Anyway, seller pays the fee, not the buyer.

Wear out those shoes and look for quality over layout. Have you seen a Monk 36? Or Tolly 44? Don't forget the Portland area.
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Old 05-30-2017, 09:16 AM   #4
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We had the size narrowed down. We had the layout down. We had our intended use down.

Now that we're back to square one we're opening the possibilities up. We have physically walked HUNDREDS of boats in the past 5 years, and many dozens more in the last 3 months.

I'm not upset that I spent the money on surveys. I'm upset that we don't have a boat yet and out budget shrinks with every failed attempt (we have big, empty, slip we're paying for as well...).

We're not looking for advice on what to buy, as we have become very familiar with the various brands, layouts, quality, etc...we're looking for any boats for sale.

We are not opposed to using a broker (since we have one), but are not opposed to seeking out FSBO boats as well, which is why I'm here.

If you have a boat for sale that is between 36-50ft, is solid mechanically & structurally, and is insurable, please let me know.
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Old 05-30-2017, 09:19 AM   #5
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Btw, the two boats we surveyed were not marketed as "fixer uppers"....they were both priced at the high end. Neither appraised anywhere near that level...
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Old 06-08-2017, 08:17 PM   #6
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Not "twin engine" but located in Anacortes, my 40' Willard trawler is turn-key and loaded with exceptional equipment: recent repower, bow thruster, articulating rudder, high-end Kabola diesel furnace, new galley appliances...and more. Check it out: Home
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Old 06-08-2017, 08:34 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nwboater View Post
Not "twin engine" but located in Anacortes, my 40' Willard trawler is turn-key and loaded with exceptional equipment: recent repower, bow thruster, articulating rudder, high-end Kabola diesel furnace, new galley appliances...and more. Check it out: Home
If I was like the OP and looking for a nice boat in his price range, I'd be looking closely at your boat.

That is one nice looking Willard (from the photos)
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Old 06-08-2017, 08:37 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
Star

I'd suggest narrowing your size range down. What speed and where do you want to cruise? BTW, what does your mate do in the boat yard? These skills and contacts should be a real plus in a boat search.

A good 36' - 40' vessel may well be possible for less than 125K, a 45' vessel not likely. Lots of attractively priced fixer uppers out there, sounds like you found a few. Maybe your low priced haves and reality don't match. Eliminating brokers will take about 90 % of the vessels out of the running in the PNW. Anyway, seller pays the fee, not the buyer.

Wear out those shoes and look for quality over layout. Have you seen a Monk 36? Or Tolly 44? Don't forget the Portland area.
Great advice, Tom!

Work with brokers and expand your engine list. For the most part, diesel is more important than who made it. Ford-Lehman, Perkins, John Deere, etc are worth considering. Hours are less important than condition. Most importantly, have the engine(s) surveyed by someone you trust who really knows that engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nwboater View Post
Not "twin engine" but located in Anacortes, my 40' Willard trawler is turn-key and loaded with exceptional equipment: recent repower, bow thruster, articulating rudder, high-end Kabola diesel furnace, new galley appliances...and more. Check it out: Home
I was just going to recommend the same model! Didn't know yours was for sale. What a beaut!

Here's what I was thinking...nothing near as nice as yours.

1992 Willard Pilothouse Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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Old 08-06-2017, 12:02 PM   #9
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Crusing Tug-styled Trawler

Health issue force me to put my custom Tug on the market. She is 30' LOA, with a single BMW diesel. Less than 200 hours since new on boat and engine.

This boat has good living space, and can be trailered.

Asking $59,500.

Bob Gilliam
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Old 09-14-2017, 02:46 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nwboater View Post
Not "twin engine" but located in Anacortes, my 40' Willard trawler is turn-key and loaded with exceptional equipment: recent repower, bow thruster, articulating rudder, high-end Kabola diesel furnace, new galley appliances...and more. Check it out: Home
May I ask what she sold for?

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Old 09-14-2017, 08:02 AM   #11
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"but ended up with 3/4 of the flybridge and the entire port stringer (and maybe/likely more) completely rotted."

That's a surprise , I thought the Bayliners has better construction than 3rd world.
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Old 09-14-2017, 03:19 PM   #12
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I have a MarineTrader 36 sundeck 1987 completely renovated. Would you be interested? You can contact me via Trawler Forum.
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Old 09-14-2017, 04:18 PM   #13
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Need a bigger budget

Speaking from the informed position of owning a 1991 Bayliner, you will spend significantly more than $125K to return any 20 year old or older Bayliner 38 or 45 to Bristol condition. A good rule of thumb would be the original acquisition cost of the vessel if you want one in that condition. I've got more than $200K in my 38 and I'm still spending. Motor yachting is not a good hobby for the cash-constrained or budget-conscious buyer. Sailboating will be cheaper all the way around.

They say BOAT stands for bring out another thousand, but that really only applies to those 30' and less. After that it's bring out another $10,000. You'll never get your money back because boats are depreciating assets. And you'll never insure it for what you have in it because insurance is based on market value, not "investment" a.k.a. throwing money in a hole in the water.

I don't regret a dime of what I've spent, though. I'm living my dream. Safety first is my motto and that included all new through-hulls, new seacocks, new hoses, new clamps, new pumps, new wiring, new breakers, new electronics, new radar, new plotters, new deck coring, new bonding system, seating, dinghy crane, fenders, dock lines, multiple redundant systems, water heater, stripping both engines down to the blocks and replacing just about everything that hangs on them - turbos are about $4K each on Hino diesels, ceramic coated exhaust systems and stainless are expensive ... the list goes on and on forever seemingly. And those are just the expenses to get you going. On the water something will break every time because the boat is still over 20 years old. And those big boats get about 1 mpg going 8 knts. On a plane figure 25-50 gph at $3 a gallon for diesel where I boat.

Perhaps my experience is unique. I spared no expense buying the best to get the best results. I'm happy how mine turned out and I know every system on the boat intimately. But it came at a very high cost, one that was more than 10 times what my certified marine surveyor thought...and like I said before the spending more and continuously never ceases. All those rails on deck require polishing and waxing at least monthly in the Keys to keep up with the sun and saltwater.

If I haven't scared you off, and I don't mean to I'm just trying to help you see things Bayliner realistically, contact Earl Summerville the Bayliner Guru. He's out there in Washington and he knows Bayliners. His telephone number is 386-383-1872. You can tell him Ken from Key Largo referred you. He's top notch and I highly recommend him.

Good Luck!!
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Old 09-14-2017, 05:52 PM   #14
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Buy a 4588 cheap. As close to $10K as possible. Then put $125K into it.

Get the boat you want and make it your own. Bayliner makes a good hull in my opinion. That's why I bought one. Other than that it doesn't really have good bones...but it's affordable enough to buy and fix up. A new boat with similar amenities is over $1 Million.

Get to know all your systems intimately, and you'll be a better captain. You'll save money doing a lot of it yourself and know how stuff works. And you'll know what to do the next time it breaks.

I've been working on mine 3 years and still need an automatic fire suppression system for the engine room and for the guy in Key Largo to finish my new bridge canvas. Hydraulic steering blew a gasket making my run from Irma. It's always something.

I hope you buy a Bayliner and enjoy it as much as I do mine.

Cheers!
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Old 09-14-2017, 07:13 PM   #15
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As someone that repaired boats, Bayliner would be near last in my choice. Except for the basic hull, everything else is poorly done. It's like they have two crews. One to build the hull and another made of gingerbread men. They make it pretty, but no idea of the environmental issues a boat has. Almost all of their open power boats more than a few years old have a rotting floor. The bigger boats have bigger problems.
I love Detroit Diesels, my preferred, reliable, ocean diesel, and I usually buy boats that have them. But you'll mainly find them on bigger, older boats. Thanks to the EPA. If you don't know diesels and don't want to know, you'd be better off with common small yacht diesels. Most mechanics can't tune or repair Detroits, but they think they can. If you know only a little it's hard to screen mechanics. I do my own.
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Old 09-14-2017, 10:15 PM   #16
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As someone that repaired boats, Bayliner would be near last in my choice. Except for the basic hull, everything else is poorly done. It's like they have two crews. One to build the hull and another made of gingerbread men. They make it pretty, but no idea of the environmental issues a boat has. Almost all of their open power boats more than a few years old have a rotting floor. The bigger boats have bigger problems.
I love Detroit Diesels, my preferred, reliable, ocean diesel, and I usually buy boats that have them. But you'll mainly find them on bigger, older boats. Thanks to the EPA. If you don't know diesels and don't want to know, you'd be better off with common small yacht diesels. Most mechanics can't tune or repair Detroits, but they think they can. If you know only a little it's hard to screen mechanics. I do my own.
Well...

As a person that has owned 5 ocean going Bayliners (never owned a Bayliner ski boat though) I can say that the models I've been on ranging from 19-47' and age ranging from mid 90's to early 2000's, have been just fine.

Poorly made, as in your comment makes me ask you for specific issues you've noted on other than the ski boat you mentioned.

I do not note any more or less manitenance issues on my boats than other folks with similar vintage and sized boats.

So what specific things make for "poorly constructed". Possibly I can learn something here...
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Old 09-15-2017, 03:01 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Starchanger View Post
We have physically walked HUNDREDS of boats in the past 5 years, and many dozens more in the last 3 months.

I'm not upset that I spent the money on surveys. I'm upset that we don't have a boat yet and out budget shrinks with every failed attempt (we have big, empty, slip we're paying for as well...)
WADR, you may have issues around making decisions. And the words 'looky loos' comes to mind - brokers may have other descriptors.

Most boaters don't have near that much restraint, or far more confidence. Boating may be a little too risky for you.
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Old 09-23-2017, 10:15 PM   #18
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Run while you still can! Not to be discouraging but I, like you failed to close on two boats because they had major problems on survey. I finally bought not because I found the perfect boat, though I love her dearly and am delighted with the outcome, but because I found the perfectly incompetent surveyor who failed to spot the 100k or so that was needed to get this boat off the dock. You will never find a boat in your size and price range that doesn't have a host of problems if you look hard enough for them. Good news is that most of us don't know enough to see what's coming and most marine surveys, like terrestrial home inspections, are little better than a joke. Where's that hiding under a chair emoticon thingie??? Hire a crappy surveyor and hope he's hungover so you can stop spending money on the search and begin to dump it, in huge quantities, into a boat 'cause that's a big part of the fun! Do I wish I had known what was coming when I jumped?? Not most days 'cause if I had I would have missed the last, admittedly expensive, year on the boat and a priceless trip to Clayoquot in June. Good luck, and I really mean that.
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Old 09-26-2017, 01:02 AM   #19
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budgets & buying boats

Get the right boat the first time -- Up your budget & get one that is already ready to go & turn key.

I have nothing to do with this one, but think it is a good looking boat & may fill all your needs.

I like this one - just have it shipped to west coast.



1999 Hyatt 50 Voyager Fantail Trawler Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com


Good Luck.

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Old 11-21-2017, 05:03 PM   #20
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Our boat is a little more than your original budget, but if you're thinking about upping your price, she's still available, and located (relatviely) locally. She's listed with a broker at the moment, but he isn't really doing us any favors so I'd much rather just sell her myself. We're willing to negotiate on the price, more so in February when the listing agreement expires.

Grand Banks Alaskan 49
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