Other: offer - but no answer

[BandB]

He's earned distrust with his actions. Can you tell what bank account the check was deposited in? How was the check made out, to whom? I would demand the money immediately and be at his door every day until I got it. When he says "start the process of generating your check," I get concerned. What does he mean process. It's write a check and hand it to you.

All states need to regulate boat brokers. Unfortunately only two do. You need to be very firm.

 

[markpierce]

Gee, I've purchased two new boats, sight unseen, during the last four decades directly from the manufacturers (Bluewater out of Texas and Seahorse Marine in China) using the phone, snail mail, and internet, and haven't had a problem. One needs to research the seller first.

 

[BruceK]

For the future, a word about offers.
Limit the period of an offer to expire on a specified day at a specified time.It applies some pressure and means the offer is not open ended. If you do that, I suggest you add to the offer "I reserve the right to withdraw this offer at any time". Otherwise someone may claim you are committed to keeping it open to the end date. (What if a better deal on another boat suddenly appears, etc?)
A counter offer is not just a counter offer, is also a rejection of your offer. When your offer is rejected, be it by a "No" or a counter offer, it is gone/finished/exhausted. The counter offer is a fresh offer from the seller to you.
Keep onto them for the deposit refund, B&B`s comment is spot on, it`s not a "process".

 

[utazo89]

The check was made out to the brokerage and the money went to a deposit only trust account for the brokerage.

 

[dhays]

The check was made out to the brokerage and the money went to a deposit only trust account for the brokerage.

You are in good shape at this point. Don't be infected by the general TF paranoia.

As was mentioned before, there is a standard offer used by WA boat brokers that has a date for acceptance as well as a list of provisions. You will get your deposit back and you will find another boat to make an offer on.

 

[Art]

I just read this thread... fully. Good luck fellow. IMO - First thing tomorrow morning pin that broker's ears to the wall. Demand your money immediately transferred to your account or a check in your hand right then. Then, drive directly to the bank and have your bank call his bank to make sure the check is covered... as you deposit it.

Better luck next time. Be careful!!

 

[BruceK]

You are in good shape at this point. Don't be infected by the general TF paranoia.

As was mentioned before, there is a standard offer used by WA boat brokers that has a date for acceptance as well as a list of provisions. You will get your deposit back and you will find another boat to make an offer on.

Indeed. No panic required, just courteous persistence to be sure the $ come back without delay.

 

[Hawgwash]

The check was made out to the brokerage and the money went to a deposit only trust account for the brokerage.

Looks like you are ok now. His "process" probably means writing a cheque requisition, handing it to Katie at the next desk; Katie writes it and hands it to the manager beside her, for signature. It then finds it's way back to your boy.

If he has any smarts at all, he will realize he is the one looking bad here and will expedite the "process." Like, have it ready by noon today.

Stay on him.

 

[Shrew]

The timeline doesn't seem that outrageous. You singed papers and turned over a deposit on Sunday. By Thu. the broker had a sick day, and on Friday still hadn't reached the seller. He expected some feedback when the seller was in the office on mon. Now its Tue. This is 7 business days. The check was deposited in the brokers escrow account.

This all seems a little knee jerk.

 

[Hawgwash]

Sick day?
Knee jerk?
Oh, ok.

Any brokers I know are 7 day operations and they are in the communication business, not the obfuscating, lame excuse business.

The broker wrote a sloppy contract and missed several promised deadlines. A substantial deposit was in play and I think utazo89 showed reasonable poise under the circumstances.

Baseball bats to knee jerks is quite a typical TF range though, I guess.

 

[oscar]

I have never written a deposit on a boat until there was a (signed) agreement of sale. Only in real estate have I seen checks with an offer, for a nominal amount. These checks were never deposited until there was an agreement.

 

[Baker]

I have never written a deposit on a boat until there was a (signed) agreement of sale. Only in real estate have I seen checks with an offer, for a nominal amount. These checks were never deposited until there was an agreement.

When a broker representing a buyer brings an offer to a seller(or broker rep a seller), it is done via a purchasing agreement. When that purchasing agreement is filled out, it is accompanied with a deposit...usually 10% of the offered price. It is not an "agreement of sale". It is an agreement to purchase the boat. You are backing up your offer with the intent to buy based on your own conditions. Those conditions usually include financing, a survey(both hull and mechanical if you wish), and sea trial and pretty much anything you want to include within reason. If those conditions are met, then you are bound by contract to follow through with the purchase or lose your deposit. Obviously, you can find anything you want in those conditions to get out of the deal. But, to reiterate, when you have an intent to buy a boat, that intent is in the form of a purchasing agreement with a 10% deposit. At least that is how it is done in my part of the world(Texas). An offer don't mean sh*t if there is not money to back it up.

 

[BandB]

You are in good shape at this point. Don't be infected by the general TF paranoia.

As was mentioned before, there is a standard offer used by WA boat brokers that has a date for acceptance as well as a list of provisions. You will get your deposit back and you will find another boat to make an offer on.

The fact it was deposited in a separate account, if done, relieves a good bit of worry. Still when I can't get responses or answers I do get worried and start to sense game playing. The fact no date was entered for expiration of the offer is sloppy on the part of the broker and the start the processing of the check part disturbing. The money is supposed to be sitting, unused, and should be available for immediate refund.

I'm not saying panic, but yes I am paranoid when people aren't responding. Not returning calls and not getting answers makes me paranoid. That's avoiding me and I don't like it. I don't know why they're doing it.

And I do find the time unacceptable. Broker should have answer within no more than 48 hours and if he doesn't have it in that time, should let customer know why. Call and tell me the seller is in France and flying home on Wednesday, promises answer by Thursday, I'm fine. Give me no answers, I'm not fine.

I am saying, don't allow it to linger. Seek an immediate resolution. If he says, we'll send the check to you, ask when you can pick it up and don't accept "we prepare checks once a week." That may be their business account they do so, but not escrow and just because they normally do doesn't mean they must.

 

[Art]

If he does not return your money immediately - Book Em Dano! - LOL


Just to keep a little humor in play on this thread!

 

[Hawgwash]

The fact it was deposited in a separate account, if done, relieves a good bit of worry. Still when I can't get responses or answers I do get worried and start to sense game playing. The fact no date was entered for expiration of the offer is sloppy on the part of the broker and the start the processing of the check part disturbing. The money is supposed to be sitting, unused, and should be available for immediate refund.

I'm not saying panic, but yes I am paranoid when people aren't responding. Not returning calls and not getting answers makes me paranoid. That's avoiding me and I don't like it. I don't know why they're doing it.

And I do find the time unacceptable. Broker should have answer within no more than 48 hours and if he doesn't have it in that time, should let customer know why. Call and tell me the seller is in France and flying home on Wednesday, promises answer by Thursday, I'm fine. Give me no answers, I'm not fine.

I am saying, don't allow it to linger. Seek an immediate resolution. If he says, we'll send the check to you, ask when you can pick it up and don't accept "we prepare checks once a week." That may be their business account they do so, but not escrow and just because they normally do doesn't mean they must.

+1

 

[Pau Hana]

The timeline doesn't seem that outrageous. You singed papers and turned over a deposit on Sunday. By Thu. the broker had a sick day, and on Friday still hadn't reached the seller. He expected some feedback when the seller was in the office on mon. Now its Tue. This is 7 business days. The check was deposited in the brokers escrow account.

This all seems a little knee jerk.

Nope.

The broker is a CPYB. Being so, he is a professional that has promised to adhere to standards. The broker should have had the offer (correctly executed to include performance criteria) to the seller Sunday, and been back to the buyer no later than Wednesday of the same week. 8 days is a lifetime in this business. The broker earns his keep by being timely and attentive to all the details.

Further, I've known the broker personally for over a decade, and unfortunately, I would be quick to recommend another.

 

[bayview]

All offers should be subject to a deadline, survey report satisfactory to the buyer and another things you need such as financing and insurance.


A counter offer should include all the term of your original offer because the counter offer over rides the initial offer otherwise.

 

[BandB]

Nope.

The broker is a CPYB. Being so, he is a professional that has promised to adhere to standards. The broker should have had the offer (correctly executed to include performance criteria) to the seller Sunday, and been back to the buyer no later than Wednesday of the same week. 8 days is a lifetime in this business. The broker earns his keep by being timely and attentive to all the details.

Further, I've known the broker personally for over a decade, and unfortunately, I would be quick to recommend another.

Glad to hear it confirmed from a professional who knows of the broker. When you run into things like this either they are being very sloppy and inattentive or they're being dishonest, but either way you don't want to deal with them.

Another reason for a buyer's broker, you get to select them and if there is dealing then with another broker, they have to do it. They know who is easy and who is hard to deal with and what they have to do. They know who to trust and who not to. If good, they wouldn't let you submit the offer without a time set.

When there's a delay it can be just laziness. But the other thing I've seen it be is the broker working on another deal on the same boat, trying to delay yours until he see's if he can get an offer there. Then after two weeks, he tells you, someone else beat you to it or had a better offer.

 

[Hawgwash]

Nope. The broker is a CPYB. Being so, he is a professional that has promised to adhere to standards. The broker should have had the offer (correctly executed to include performance criteria) to the seller Sunday, and been back to the buyer no later than Wednesday of the same week. 8 days is a lifetime in this business. The broker earns his keep by being timely and attentive to all the details.

Further, I've known the broker personally for over a decade, and unfortunately, I would be quick to recommend another.

Great comments Peter, especially the last one which you thoughtfully chose to make.

It is a pity the less than professional ones are out there to cause very bad feelings among the green buyers like Lazlo. As you saw, the paperwork on this deal was sloppy in the extreme and as stated earlier, I would encourage use of a buyers broker by this purchaser, at least this time around.

The reverse is the unreasonable purchaser, like one on here not long ago, who cause brokers grief, stirring up unjustified internet negativity.

 

[dhays]

The timeline doesn't seem that outrageous. You singed papers and turned over a deposit on Sunday. By Thu. the broker had a sick day, and on Friday still hadn't reached the seller. He expected some feedback when the seller was in the office on mon. Now its Tue. This is 7 business days. The check was deposited in the brokers escrow account.

This all seems a little knee jerk.

I understand your point, but a week is a lifetime when an offer is on the table. A week would not have been a long time if the broker was able to provide consistent and reasonable explanations as to why. It doesn't sound like this was the case.

I think it is perfectly reasonable for the buyer to withdraw the offer under these circumstances.

When I purchased my current boat, the broker was able to tell me when he expected to hear back from the seller. In my case, the seller was out of town after the offer was made and the broker got right back to me the next day apologizing and explaining the delay. It took a couple days for the seller to counter and during that time the broker was emailing me a couple times a day. When I countered the counter offer, and it was lower than the seller wanted, the broker told me the seller wanted to think about it for a couple days. The idea was that the broker was on top of the negotiation and communicating with me daily.

BTW, in this case the broker also happened to be the manufacturer of our boats and was handling this while he was traveling to boat shows etc... If he can do it, some broker with a local office should be able to provide much better service than what utazo89 experienced.

 

[utazo89]

Hello Gents.
So many great comments! I really appreciate all the opinions.
At this point, I am just focusing on the refund check, the way all of you recommended. I believe, it will work out just fine.
I might not be the best candidate for business dealings, and I know I should be more firm occasionally. I just don't have the taste to be confrontational, when my knowledge is lacking substance. Maybe by not having English as my first language, gives me confusion about the legalities of this process. I know it is not a good excuse, but it is there. So, I will play nice and see, if we can still settle this matter as gentlemen. If I am wrong, I will certainly update you on the process.
I have learned tremendously from this thread, so far. Thank you All!

 

[pearlwindham]

Thanks to All.
It seems that I have made a very stupid mistake, as a first buyer. The offer form does have a section for deadline on the offer, but it was left empty. I don't know, if the offer was already presented to the seller by the broker, or not? I am getting excuses for the last 8 days from the broker. Different reasons, why the seller did not say anything, yet, solidly. What options do I have now? Shall I go back to the broker's office and demand a deadline date to be put on the form? Or, shall I insist on cancelling the whole thing?
Originally, I was told that I will get an answer within a day or two. It did not happen. I don't want to list the excuses publicly by the broker and I don't feel comfortable to give his name out here. He is in the Seattle area. I can send it in PM, if anyone wants to know.
Thanks again.

If you are having this kind of trouble now....Why are you ignoring the signs of future dealings with these people withdraw in writing give a time in days for deposit return in writing and go to next deal....Period. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Hawgwash]

Hello Gents.
So many great comments! I really appreciate all the opinions.
At this point, I am just focusing on the refund check, the way all of you recommended. I believe, it will work out just fine.
I might not be the best candidate for business dealings, and I know I should be more firm occasionally. I just don't have the taste to be confrontational, when my knowledge is lacking substance. Maybe by not having English as my first language, gives me confusion about the legalities of this process. I know it is not a good excuse, but it is there. So, I will play nice and see, if we can still settle this matter as gentlemen. If I am wrong, I will certainly update you on the process.
I have learned tremendously from this thread, so far. Thank you All!

Nothing at all wrong with your stance, especially if it is one you are comfortable with. It will work out, I'm sure.

Now, what are you looking for and how well did Gypsy Star fill your needs?
Maybe we can help you find your new boat.

 

[utazo89]

Pearlwindham
I did put it in writing. It was accepted and I am in the process of getting back my deposit. Hopefully, today or tomorrow.

 

[dhays]

Further, I've known the broker personally for over a decade, and unfortunately, I would be quick to recommend another.

That is a very nice way of saying it.

 

[Art]

Pearlwindham
I did put it in writing. It was accepted and I am in the process of getting back my deposit. Hopefully, today or tomorrow.

YEA!!

Now, go forth to conquer your boat buying need!

 

[utazo89]

Hawgwash

The Gipsy Start was attractive, because it had low hours on the twins, it all looked clean, it had one stateroom (I am single), a dual bunk for my visiting daughter, single head. Space is my weakness, so this configuration was giving it enough for me, despite that the boat is a sport fisher (I am not into fishing, yet) and had a large cockpit for that purpose. I had no info on the generator, but everything else looked fine to me. Surveys were not done, though. I liked the size of it 48' (51' total) and I could get figured out the missing davit/dinghy later on. Top speed was 22 knots, but with significant gallon/mile consumption, which is not my desire, but a little push can be life saving sometimes.

If I could find another, more fitting boat, it would be more comfortable in the salon space, perhaps a single screw, slower speed/less consumption, different diesels not Cats something cheaper to maintain, cruising 9-10 knots, bow thruster?, LRC type with larger tanks. (I do plan to learn enough to make longer cruising few years from now) After reading a lot, it seems that wood hull would not work for me and fiberglass is the way to go. When I was a seaman at young age, I did deal with steel a lot, scraping and painting constantly. So, still would be ok, but not with lot of work. I like the older dutch build boats, but there are not many around here. DeFever is wonderful, but I cannot afford it. Same with Nordic Tugs. Chris Craft yes, if there is no serious repair needed, A boat from another State is very expensive to deliver, so I cannot tell, if I should even look out there. I also try to find something which is 1986 or younger, as the banks do not like to finance boats older then 30 y. So do the insurance companies. I am trying to stay around the 100K price range. As you see, my options are quite limited. But here are the few I was looking at yesterday:
55 Florida Bay Coaster 1991 Bobbie Lee For Sale in Kemah, Texas, US | Denison Yacht Sales

54 DeFever 1971 RUFYANNE For Sale in Bremerton, Washington, US | Denison Yacht Sales

53 Canoe Cove 1983 Crescent Moon For Sale in West Vancouver, CA | Denison Yacht Sales

52 Jefferson 1997 For Sale in Ft Lauderdale, Florida, US | Denison Yacht Sales

52 Cheoy Lee 1987 Reelax For Sale in , Pennsylvania, US | Denison Yacht Sales

51 Tiger Marine 1988 For Sale in San Diego, California, US | Denison Yacht Sales

50 Kha Shing 1991 BOBATO For Sale in Newington, New Hampshire, US | Denison Yacht Sales

I think I should stop now, not to overwhelm the audience...lol
Thanks.

 

[Pau Hana]

That is a very nice way of saying it.

I do like the broker personally, but this marine market is small, and reputation based on performance will make you or break you. I just know more professionally reputable brokers in the area that have pride in doing the right thing all the time.

 

[Ted]

If this is a certain "trawler broker" in La Conner, get hard nosed.
A purchaser in this area put on offer on a GB subject to the usual conditions.
On personal inspection found it to be not in the stated condition, but a floating
container of dry-rot. Purchase rejected.
It took a prolonged time and considerable legal fees to get the deposit returned.
Be careful.

Ted

 

[dhays]

utazo, I would stick to boats in the PNW. There are plenty around and the cost of transport for boats that size would be significant.

Definitely decide on if you want to go fast (ie over 12 knots). If you do, then that will limit the boat choice. If you don't, then there are lots of options.