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Old 12-11-2013, 09:38 AM   #61
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Again, all you need to know about reconditioning Krogen hulls in MD can be learned from Osprey or Washburns. Manatees are also the same closed-cell cored hulls as the original 42's. Currently, the highest priced Manatee on the market is one that was re-done by Osprey. It's arguable that an Osprey recon may be of equal or greater value than a very good survey on an original Manatee or 42' hull, if for nothing else, for its freshness. If there is a downside, it may be that the hull could need some time to properly dry out after opening, and neither of these yards are in a hurry to do it right. I'm a worry wart about such things, but I wouldn't even blink on a future Krogen purchase that had recon work done at either of these yards, and for hull alone, especially Osprey. This includes the subject vessel. It is a different philosophy to undertake the building of your dreamboat this way, but the only cheaper route is to find your dreamboat in better condition now, and get a better price on it.
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Old 12-11-2013, 09:42 AM   #62
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Some history on the KK42 cores:

The Krogen 42 started production in 1977 and ended in 1998 with 206 built. In 1993 they stopped coring below the water line only. The coring used was closed-cell PVC foamed core which does not deteriorate or absorb water. The Manatee of which 99 were built from 1984 to 1991 were also constructed the same way. My understanding is that a few of the early KK42's had adhesion failure with the core to the outer or inner skin. In some cases Krogen repaired these at their expense. I have heard of one 42 that had the outer skin removed plus the core and then had new core and outer skin layed up. These were early production runs.

Water in the core is another issue. If it's just wet core? How bad is that? It can be dried, we have done that once on another boat after we found where the water entered. The core won't rot or absorb water. I think if the buyer is carefull with management of the repairs, as others of said, he can end up with a one heck of boat.
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:07 AM   #63
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So how about blocking the boat up straight and level, and then stripping the outside skin of glass and the foam, and glassing it up solid from the outside to about 1" thick. It would take some time to get it fair, but would it be too expensive? Any guess to the cost ... $60K?
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:38 AM   #64
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So how about blocking the boat up straight and level, and then stripping the outside skin of glass and the foam, and glassing it up solid from the outside to about 1" thick. It would take some time to get it fair, but would it be too expensive? Any guess to the cost ... $60K?
Tricky but doable....it has to be done in sections so the hull doesn't twist/deform and that may get tricky unless you have the experience or can run the calculations...
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:45 AM   #65
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What construction does Meridian do today with hull bottoms, solid or core?

Respect him or not, Pascoe says, "Buying a cored bottom boat in my opinion is little more than a roll of the dice."
I do not know what they are doing today. Like many or most large boat manufacturers Meridian has had some challenges in recent times. Call it the economy, or call it shifting priorities, they are having to rethink the new boat market.

What I do know is that the 45 and 47 series Bayliner was produced from 1984 to 2003 when they took the exact same boats and branded them Meridian. Same plants, same workers, same boats. Production of the pilothouse models ceased in 2008, probably forever.

I do know that my boat has a foam cored hull, and that the foam is pretty thick. I think a couple of inches, but I'm not positive. I vaguely remember having to buy extra long transducers during the refit.

I do know that installing a new transducer in a location that was not set up for it was expensive. They had to sleeve the hole and seal it up with resin or something along those lines to properly install the transducer.

And yes, I have read Pascoe, and I agree with him on most things. I have two of his books, and found them to be very informational.
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:56 AM   #66
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So how about blocking the boat up straight and level, and then stripping the outside skin of glass and the foam, and glassing it up solid from the outside to about 1" thick. It would take some time to get it fair, but would it be too expensive? Any guess to the cost ... $60K?
That's an interesting question. I'm sure that's been tried, but a cored hull is made to withstand stresses as a unit. On Manatees and 42's, there is plenty of evidence of flexing at the cap rail over the years. Changing out the existing core for solid glass would change that flex, and comparing the cored hulls with solid glass hulls, the cored hulls seem to flex less. Since there is nothing wrong with a cored hull, I'd stay with the original design, and I'd bet ya Osprey would tell you that too. Besides, the core does provide temperature and sound insulation, and zero condensation.
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Old 12-11-2013, 12:09 PM   #67
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I'd stay with the original design, and I'd bet ya Osprey would tell you that too. Besides, the core does provide temperature and sound insulation, and zero condensation.
If the foam was firmly attached, and could be dried, I'm sure your right about what Osprey would recommend. Since we are all guessing at the condition of this KK42 hull, I was thinking more of a nearly worst case ... foam that is both wet and delaminated from both sides. Knowing the KK42 was built both in both solid and cored versions ... would the experts at Osprey replacing the foam?
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Old 12-11-2013, 12:25 PM   #68
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Since this is all theoretical anyway I'd sure like to find a KK42 in this kinda shape in ten years. That's when the admiral and I have agreed to cut ties to our dirt.

Hey Larry or Marty, any chance one of you can let your boat slip into disrepair around that time frame?
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Old 12-11-2013, 12:37 PM   #69
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If the foam was firmly attached, and could be dried, I'm sure your right about what Osprey would recommend. Since we are all guessing at the condition of this KK42 hull, I was thinking more of a nearly worst case ... foam that is both wet and delaminated from both sides. Knowing the KK42 was built both in both solid and cored versions ... would the experts at Osprey replacing the foam?
Yes, I see what you mean. True, if the foam were falling out of the hull (wow, would that be an extreme case), you may have a point. I have found dry-as-a-bone balsa coring that was de-laminated from the upper skin of my boat deck when holing for a davit crane. With the products used in these boats in the 70's and 80's, I suppose such a severe case is possible, but when I removed an original thru-hull earlier this year, even though I found moisture in the first 1/3 inch or so, there was no de-lamination and no spread of any moisture through the core. Frankly, I didn't understand how the foam and laminate would stay sealed against the spread of moisture, but the hammer doesn't lie. After seeing that example, I should say that I feel a lot more confident in the condition of my hull, and have a lot less worry about any water intrusion as long as I am careful to seal my thru-hulls correctly, paint the bottom when necessary, and deal with blisters when and if they appear on haul-out intervals of 2 years. Having a diver you can depend on helps a lot too.
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Old 12-11-2013, 02:21 PM   #70
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...Hey Larry or Marty, any chance one of you can let your boat slip into disrepair around that time frame?
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Old 01-04-2014, 07:58 AM   #71
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Old 01-04-2014, 09:17 PM   #72
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Old 09-24-2016, 09:11 PM   #73
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So how about blocking the boat up straight and level, and then stripping the outside skin of glass and the foam, and glassing it up solid from the outside to about 1" thick. It would take some time to get it fair, but would it be too expensive? Any guess to the cost ... $60K?
I was involved with a Nonsuch 30 that had that done about 15yrs ago. ...
the cost then for a 30 footer was $60k and what a freaking disaster. The work was competently done but she was a slug with all the extra weight.
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