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Old 01-09-2017, 08:59 PM   #101
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City: Willsboro Bay Marina
Country: BROMONT, QC CANADA
Vessel Name: REAL MOUNTIE
Vessel Model: 1986 PILGRIM 40 HULL No 28
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 188
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Hello Eyschulman! and Thank you for sharing your experience as a Pilgrim 40 previous owner.

Your testimony has veracity and I am in full agreement with you. I have discussed the rolling effects with a Nordic Tug 37 owner who mentioned the same challenged.

Unfortunately, wakes are wakes even in a no wake zone...

Pilgrim owners tend to accept this inconvenience as the Pilgrim 40 are great coastal and inland waters. The Admiral and I are quite used to it since 2009 and we do not regret owning one.

If our Pilgrim 40 do not choose new owners in this coming spring, the admiral and I are anticipating cruising the Cheasapeake Bay and the Bahamas then return to beautiful Lake Champlain either on NY or Vt side.

Once again, Eyschulman, thanks for your learned opinion on this beautiful and comfortable canadian made vessel!
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Old 01-10-2017, 07:37 AM   #102
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City: St Augustine, FL
Country: USA & Thailand
Vessel Name: RunningTide
Vessel Model: 37 Louisiane catamaran
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 836
Dear Mountie & Ed,
Have either of you had experiences on other similar size vessels with hard chines?

I had made in the past the suggestion that modifying the below water hull shape of the Pilgrim might make lessen some of the rolling tendencies,...and might also make construction cost slightly less with a hard chine hull shape (in steel).
Redesigning the Pilgrim 40 Trawler / Canal Boat
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Old 01-13-2017, 06:40 PM   #103
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City: Willsboro Bay Marina
Country: BROMONT, QC CANADA
Vessel Name: REAL MOUNTIE
Vessel Model: 1986 PILGRIM 40 HULL No 28
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 188
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Dear Brian, I hope you are well. Thank you for your comments.

I would like to refer to our esteemed member RT Firefly quotes*: «*EVERYTHING rolls at sea, cats included...*under various conditions and experience … Oh, and don't let anyone talk you into a vessel that does not pick you. (You really don't pick the vessel-trust me)...I know that some people have ventured successfully into open waters with the boat but so have rafts and many others that should not....»

I also refer to Ted Gozzard statements to Jim Elliot our Pilgrim 40 past owner, that to build a Pilgrim 40 with todays material and labor, he would have to retail it over a million dollar... It would be fair to say that custom construction project would cost at the minimum 500K.

This being said, as mentionned by Ed, all Pilgrim 40 (may be except "PAPILLON"*with stabilizers) as any sail and trawler boats do roll underway, I might add also the rolling motions abeam (unless you cut the wake) after a slow or fast pass from a imprudent cruising captain and at anchorage with any wake created by disrespectful skipper at the helm.

I wanted to consider flopper stoppers at anchorage but made the choice not to complicate my life as to reduce the actions in doing manoeuvers.

If you can find the appropriate place in the vessel, maybe a gyroscope (designed to eliminate only 95% of boat roll) ( and consuming AC or DC power) could work well.

At the same time, I estimate this project opportunity cost for over (32,340.00$usd + taxes + Installation which is not not included).
Here are the specifications for the gyroscope*:
Rated Speed 10,700 RPM
Angular Momentum 5,000 N-M-S at Rated RPM
Anti-Rolling Torque 13,089 N-M at Rated RPM
Spool-up Time to Rated RPM 50 minutes (10,700 RPM)
Spool-up Time to Stabilization 35 minutes (9,035 RPM)
Spool-up Power AC Motor 2000 Watts
Max DC Control 180 Watts
Operating Power AC Motor (sea state dependent): 1500-2000 Watts
DC Control: 180 Watts AC
Input Voltage: 110-230 VAC (+/- 10%), 50/60 Hz, Single Phase
DC Input Voltage: 12 VDC @ 15 Amps
Sea Water Supply 30 LPM (8 GPM)
maximum to Heat Exchanger 15 LPM (4 GPM)
minimum Ambient Air Temperature 0°-60° C (32°-140° F)
Weight 358 kg (790 lbs) bolt-in installation
Envelope Dimensions 30.1 L x 29.8 W x 24.7 H (inches)

I almost forgot... The Noise Output At full operating RPM, steady state noise measured in the factory at a 1 meter distance measures 70-72 dBC and the sound levels may be higher during spool-up!.

From my 7th boating season and over 4000 statute miles cruising experience our Pilgrim 40 is still a great inland/coastal 20 miles vessel. It is a slow boat to enjoy cruising and enjoy the sceneries.

My opinion is if you need an open sea boat with hard chine, I would suggest to forget the Pilgrim 40 and consider a Downeaster or Passage maker type vessel equipped with a gyroscope that fits your cruising needs.
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Old 01-13-2017, 09:23 PM   #104
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City: Seattle
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Moon River
Vessel Model: Devlin 48
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,065
I agree all boats will roll but some do roll more than others. I have spent time on both the round bottom pilgrim and hard chinned boats and the difference is notable. My present boat hard chinned is good and if I were using it in the ICW I would want a gyroscopic stabilizer. The Pilgrim was a problem in the ICW with all the close wake of boats in the narrow shallow marked channels and some days it was one wake roll after another weekends the worse time to travel. Where my boat is now in the PNW there is only one area with a long narrow two way waterway, otherwise there is not that much close wake. The winds in the PNW where I cruise are also commonly on the nose or tail. So given the concept of a new pilgrim I would ditch the round bottom besides in steel it is a lot easier to build with chines. I would do a relatively heavy steel chinned SD hull(even if used only at displacement speeds) with a wide butt and sharp waterline chines aft. If draft where not a big issue I would have a big protected prop with 5ft of keel. If $ were not a big issue a gyroscope as icing. The pilgrim design as is on the used market is in my opinion an excellent boat for those who will use it in protected waters as intended by its designer a good blend of boat and cottage on the water.
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Old 01-15-2017, 10:52 PM   #105
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City: Willsboro Bay Marina
Country: BROMONT, QC CANADA
Vessel Name: REAL MOUNTIE
Vessel Model: 1986 PILGRIM 40 HULL No 28
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 188
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Here is a video on what to expect using Deploying Flopper Stoppers on Nordhavn 62:



Interesting comments from TF members on the subject:

Paravanes, Steadying Sail or Both
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