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Old 01-09-2017, 07:59 PM   #101
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City: Willsboro Bay Marina
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Hello Eyschulman! and Thank you for sharing your experience as a Pilgrim 40 previous owner.

Your testimony has veracity and I am in full agreement with you. I have discussed the rolling effects with a Nordic Tug 37 owner who mentioned the same challenged.

Unfortunately, wakes are wakes even in a no wake zone...

Pilgrim owners tend to accept this inconvenience as the Pilgrim 40 are great coastal and inland waters. The Admiral and I are quite used to it since 2009 and we do not regret owning one.

If our Pilgrim 40 do not choose new owners in this coming spring, the admiral and I are anticipating cruising the Cheasapeake Bay and the Bahamas then return to beautiful Lake Champlain either on NY or Vt side.

Once again, Eyschulman, thanks for your learned opinion on this beautiful and comfortable canadian made vessel!
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Old 01-10-2017, 06:37 AM   #102
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Dear Mountie & Ed,
Have either of you had experiences on other similar size vessels with hard chines?

I had made in the past the suggestion that modifying the below water hull shape of the Pilgrim might make lessen some of the rolling tendencies,...and might also make construction cost slightly less with a hard chine hull shape (in steel).
Redesigning the Pilgrim 40 Trawler / Canal Boat
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Old 01-13-2017, 05:40 PM   #103
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City: Willsboro Bay Marina
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Dear Brian, I hope you are well. Thank you for your comments.

I would like to refer to our esteemed member RT Firefly quotes*: «*EVERYTHING rolls at sea, cats included...*under various conditions and experience … Oh, and don't let anyone talk you into a vessel that does not pick you. (You really don't pick the vessel-trust me)...I know that some people have ventured successfully into open waters with the boat but so have rafts and many others that should not....»

I also refer to Ted Gozzard statements to Jim Elliot our Pilgrim 40 past owner, that to build a Pilgrim 40 with todays material and labor, he would have to retail it over a million dollar... It would be fair to say that custom construction project would cost at the minimum 500K.

This being said, as mentionned by Ed, all Pilgrim 40 (may be except "PAPILLON"*with stabilizers) as any sail and trawler boats do roll underway, I might add also the rolling motions abeam (unless you cut the wake) after a slow or fast pass from a imprudent cruising captain and at anchorage with any wake created by disrespectful skipper at the helm.

I wanted to consider flopper stoppers at anchorage but made the choice not to complicate my life as to reduce the actions in doing manoeuvers.

If you can find the appropriate place in the vessel, maybe a gyroscope (designed to eliminate only 95% of boat roll) ( and consuming AC or DC power) could work well.

At the same time, I estimate this project opportunity cost for over (32,340.00$usd + taxes + Installation which is not not included).
Here are the specifications for the gyroscope*:
Rated Speed 10,700 RPM
Angular Momentum 5,000 N-M-S at Rated RPM
Anti-Rolling Torque 13,089 N-M at Rated RPM
Spool-up Time to Rated RPM 50 minutes (10,700 RPM)
Spool-up Time to Stabilization 35 minutes (9,035 RPM)
Spool-up Power AC Motor 2000 Watts
Max DC Control 180 Watts
Operating Power AC Motor (sea state dependent): 1500-2000 Watts
DC Control: 180 Watts AC
Input Voltage: 110-230 VAC (+/- 10%), 50/60 Hz, Single Phase
DC Input Voltage: 12 VDC @ 15 Amps
Sea Water Supply 30 LPM (8 GPM)
maximum to Heat Exchanger 15 LPM (4 GPM)
minimum Ambient Air Temperature 0°-60° C (32°-140° F)
Weight 358 kg (790 lbs) bolt-in installation
Envelope Dimensions 30.1 L x 29.8 W x 24.7 H (inches)

I almost forgot... The Noise Output At full operating RPM, steady state noise measured in the factory at a 1 meter distance measures 70-72 dBC and the sound levels may be higher during spool-up!.

From my 7th boating season and over 4000 statute miles cruising experience our Pilgrim 40 is still a great inland/coastal 20 miles vessel. It is a slow boat to enjoy cruising and enjoy the sceneries.

My opinion is if you need an open sea boat with hard chine, I would suggest to forget the Pilgrim 40 and consider a Downeaster or Passage maker type vessel equipped with a gyroscope that fits your cruising needs.
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Old 01-13-2017, 08:23 PM   #104
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I agree all boats will roll but some do roll more than others. I have spent time on both the round bottom pilgrim and hard chinned boats and the difference is notable. My present boat hard chinned is good and if I were using it in the ICW I would want a gyroscopic stabilizer. The Pilgrim was a problem in the ICW with all the close wake of boats in the narrow shallow marked channels and some days it was one wake roll after another weekends the worse time to travel. Where my boat is now in the PNW there is only one area with a long narrow two way waterway, otherwise there is not that much close wake. The winds in the PNW where I cruise are also commonly on the nose or tail. So given the concept of a new pilgrim I would ditch the round bottom besides in steel it is a lot easier to build with chines. I would do a relatively heavy steel chinned SD hull(even if used only at displacement speeds) with a wide butt and sharp waterline chines aft. If draft where not a big issue I would have a big protected prop with 5ft of keel. If $ were not a big issue a gyroscope as icing. The pilgrim design as is on the used market is in my opinion an excellent boat for those who will use it in protected waters as intended by its designer a good blend of boat and cottage on the water.
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Old 01-15-2017, 09:52 PM   #105
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City: Willsboro Bay Marina
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Here is a video on what to expect using Deploying Flopper Stoppers on Nordhavn 62:



Interesting comments from TF members on the subject:

Paravanes, Steadying Sail or Both
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Old 02-22-2017, 06:44 PM   #106
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Admiral Lise on board REAL MOUNTIE - Oil Painting by CARO

REAL MOUNTIE painted by our artist friend Serge Caron (CARO)
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Old 02-23-2017, 09:12 PM   #107
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Waiting for the Lock

Waiting for entering one of the Erie canal lock... Admiral Lise enjoys to be at the helm and she did over 100 locks during our last season from Lake Champlain to Oswego then to North-Tonawanda and back. Quite a memorable 1,000 statute miles round trip...

https://youtu.be/agaCXfbCuf0
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Old 02-23-2017, 09:42 PM   #108
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Another lock on the Erie canal...

https://youtu.be/cXcHxmdUp5Q
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Old 02-23-2017, 09:51 PM   #109
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Admiral Lise is passing by a Canal dredge operation on the Erie Canal.

https://youtu.be/BMQmCrQi_Uk
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Old 02-24-2017, 09:24 AM   #110
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Place where REAL MOUNTIE cruised:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?m...eq1ju9qEAYVNQE
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Old 02-24-2017, 08:24 PM   #111
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REAL MOUNTIE Pictures summer 2016 - Fly bridge

Here are some pictures from last boating season in Willsboro Bay Marina before our departure for cruising the Erie canal.
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Old 02-24-2017, 08:39 PM   #112
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I like everything I see Normand,
Espesially you're deployed fenders.

What's that on the bottom of your VHF ant? A filter?
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Old 02-24-2017, 08:51 PM   #113
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RM, what is that "whale exhaling" sound, on your videos?
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Old 02-24-2017, 08:55 PM   #114
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15 db Omni Wi-Fi Antenna

Hello Eric,

Thank you for your kind comments. This is a long range wifi antenna and it paid for itself since I bought it... Complete System with 15 db Omni Wi-Fi Antenna Ubitiqui Bullet M2 Station/Router, AirGateway Onboard Hot Spot.

With this, I can share my Internet Connection with any onboard Navigation Systems, iPads & Android Tablets, Smart Phones,Windows Computers, Apple Computers,Notebooks and Printer. In Burlington Vt, there is free wifi!

Nice to hear from you Eric, and kindest regards! Normand

Source: Wi-Fi for Boats
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Old 02-24-2017, 09:13 PM   #115
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Exhaling sound on the videos...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceK View Post
RM, what is that "whale exhaling" sound, on your videos?
Hello Bruce!

The video showing the dredge has the sound of their generators while passing.
The video showing the dropping lock gate, has the sound of the side wet exhaust system where there are two pipes (one wet exhaust from the water lock with minimal spit) (and a small direct pipe where excess of the water in the heat exchanger goes out direct). I get used to the water exhaling sound and it gives me indication that the raw water filter is not clogged with weeds...
The video made from our friends where you heard the birds singing is evidence that our exhaling sound is quite minimal... kayaks don't notice us and this is why we have installed a air toot toot which is less agressive that the horn and portable air horn...

I hop this is the appropriate answer to your question, Bruce! Kind regards, Normand
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Old 02-24-2017, 09:21 PM   #116
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Waterhall, NY - Lock

We had the mast lowered in order to have 15 feet air draft for the New-York canal.
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Old 02-24-2017, 09:37 PM   #117
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Can't get the Admiral of the helm...

Admiral Lise has great skills at the helm... And on radio communications (She got 100% in her class which is exceptional) She understands the rules of the road and the Law of the jungle: The Elephant has always priority in a narrow trail...
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Old 02-24-2017, 09:46 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REAL MOUNTIE View Post
Hello Bruce!

The video showing the dredge has the sound of their generators while passing.
The video showing the dropping lock gate, has the sound of the side wet exhaust system where there are two pipes (one wet exhaust from the water lock with minimal spit) (and a small direct pipe where excess of the water in the heat exchanger goes out direct). I get used to the water exhaling sound and it gives me indication that the raw water filter is not clogged with weeds...
Thank you for the reply. I was intrigued, now I`m sure it is the wet exhaust sound.
Your posts of Real Mountie`s travels are much appreciated, the river scenes are pretty. Happy cruising!
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Old 02-24-2017, 10:44 PM   #119
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Cruising at 7 mph at 1625 rpm - We idle speed in No Wake zones

We take the time to see and smell the flowers and enjoy the sceneries...

We do not make as much wake as a semi-displacement or planning vessel being a full displacement vessel.

We enjoy the walk around as it is safe and convenient.
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Old 02-24-2017, 11:00 PM   #120
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The marina owner needed a Canadian Flag...

Admiral Lise gave one of our spare Canadian Flag... as a friendly gesture.
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