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Old 11-20-2018, 03:57 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Bkay View Post
Thank you. We are in the final stages of layout and cutting files should be built within a few days.

Regarding the rating - of course you are right that it wouldn't cost me anything in terms of fuel to rate at M3 and I'd have some additional speed. But my logic is I could rate at M3 and have 200 hp at 2500 RPM - but I don't really need that speed.

Alternatively, I could rate at M1 and only be able to turn up to 2300 RPM and hit my target speed. But at the same time, we will also increase propeller pitch so the engine was fully loaded at 2300 (I honestly don't know if they go for 100% load at WOT or something slightly less; but it will be more pitch than if I were in an M3 engine that was fully loaded at 2500 RPM).

So at any RPM up to 2300, I will be more fully loaded and will travel faster on essentially the same fuel burn as an M3 engine. Your right, I can't go OVER 2300 RPM with my engine - but not going over 2300 because I don't want to or not going over because I can't is immaterial.

In reality, if the John Deere 150 hp engine was still available I would have chosen that. Overall you are probably right in that I might have been better off with M3 or M4 rating - but I'm not one to pine over speed I don't have and we optimized the hull shape for this speed then found the best engine that would produce the required HP.
Interesting post, and I can appreciate you reasoning.

For M3 or M4 rated to 2500 you could only operate continuously at 2100, so M1 does give you a higher shaft speed if you want/need to operate at those rpm for very long periods. I had not realised that before! I suspect that in reality you will run mostly at +/- 1800 rpm, or maybe lower if max torque is lower.

For sign-off on the engine warranty, when we commissioned my 6068TFM75 engines, the dealer wanted to reach WOT when the boat was fully loaded with fuel/water/supplies etc. That way they know the engines will not be overloaded in normal conditions. Tweaking the prop pitch is the way to do it if the calculations are a bit out.
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Old 11-20-2018, 04:12 PM   #22
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Brian, you nailed the reality - I'm mostly running at lower RPMs. My current boat is a 14 knot WOT boat and I spend 75% of my time at 8 knots and 25% at 12 knots. I hit WOT a couple times a year for sea trials and testing just before storage.

I appreciate your comments. You seem well versed in this boat-driver stuff.
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Old 11-20-2018, 05:25 PM   #23
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With all this talk about M1, M2 or M3 ratings do you know if there is any mechanical differences among the three. I know that for Cummins engines there isn't any and it is all done with chip changes.


That means you can buy the engine that gives you the most hp you ever plan to use and then run it at the lower M1 speed or below for continuous use.


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Old 11-20-2018, 05:49 PM   #24
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It gets a bit complicated. JD have 5 variants of the 4045 engine. There are 4 with turbos, then its injector pump, aftercooler (or not) and common rail variants etc

-DFM70: M2 82hp (no turbo)
-TFM85: M1-M2 100-125hp
-TFM50: M1-M4 105-150hp
-AFM85: M1-M4 160-225hp
-SFM85: M4-M5 275-315hp

My understanding is that within a series the M ratings are programmable by the dealer. So you can readily change if you want. But between series the injector pumps/turbo are different. However, I'm just a JD owner/user, not an expert on this!

The SFM85 spec surprised me - targeting a niche in smaller planing boats I guess.
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Old 11-21-2018, 08:19 AM   #25
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My understanding is the same as Brian's. Different configurations between the various 4045 engines. But the M ratings are set by programming the engine for one of 4 levels. Some have different options available, but an M1 is the same engine as an M4, but programmed differently.

I was told if I changed mine from M1 to, say, M3 in the future, my shaft, mounts, and reverse gear would probably be adequate and I'd only need to change the wheel(s).
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Old 11-21-2018, 08:22 AM   #26
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Layout has been approved and cutting files have started arriving. Now the process is to take big pieces of aluminum and cut them into small pieces of aluminum so they can then be welded back into big pieces of aluminum.

Here's a couple more shots. The bow on view doesn't really tell you much, but I just think it's bada** looking.
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Old 11-21-2018, 08:59 AM   #27
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What is the purpose of the aft helm? Maybe for docking? I would think that the forward helm would give you more all around visibility and with on extra crew on board to catch lines, being forward wouldn't be much of a problem. Even single handed it wouldn't take more than another couple of seconds to get aft.

I think those second helm stations are mostly redundant.

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Old 11-21-2018, 09:09 AM   #28
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David, you are right, the aft helm is definitely redundant and I contemplated leaving it out. But after sea trialing a similar boat I decided it made sense to add it.

I single hand frequently and it can be a great aid in docking solo or backing into a slip. In all but the worst conditions you can put your stern quarter against the dock and get a stern line out, then put your outside engine in forward idle and nuzzle up against the dock and secure the remaining lines at your leisure. That's often much easier to do and maintain visibility from an alternate steering station. At least, that's my theory and I'm sticking with it.

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Old 11-21-2018, 04:19 PM   #29
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I think the most common use for aft helms is when fishing, trolling in particular.
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Old 12-21-2018, 09:02 AM   #30
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I made a stop by the builder yesterday. We got somewhere around 8 of 13 frames tacked into place. Thought I'd post a couple photos for those who like that sort of thing.
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Old 12-21-2018, 09:04 AM   #31
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So they are in the process of taking big pieces of metal and cutting them into small pieces of metal then welding them back into big pieces of metal.

Here's a CNC router if you've never seen one.
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Old 12-21-2018, 09:29 AM   #32
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This is one of 2 watertight bulkheads. This one is the forward end of the engine room(s). A well known drawback of cats is chopped up engine rooms - but they have done a good job designing ER space within the constraints.

I'll have well over 5+ feet overhead clearance under the deck and large hatches to give unlimited overhead room in the cockpit plus we pushed the ER bulkhead forward to give plenty of room forward of the engine.

I'm getting old and crusty and don't really want to contort to do maintenance.
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Old 12-21-2018, 09:42 AM   #33
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The frames and skin are all 5086 and the design is IAW Lloyd's Special Service Craft Rules.
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Old 12-21-2018, 12:21 PM   #34
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Since the guys at USWB were kind enough to send me an updated shot from the model I thought I'd share that as well.

Besides, she kinda classes up the joint...
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Old 01-07-2019, 09:05 AM   #35
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So what do you do when you are Type A, it’s a rainy holiday, you don’t have a boat in the water, and your builders are moving like pond water? You restore a dinghy – that’ll burn up a couple weekends. I got this old girl from a fine gentleman in Annapolis a few weeks ago – I have not rowed her yet – but she looks like she’ll row just fine!

I had an interesting exchange via email on this subject and figured I’d share it with anyone who cares. First, all the common boat building materials have their strengths and weaknesses and if you play to the strengths and mitigate the weaknesses you can produce a great boat from any of the common materials. With aluminum, one of the major weaknesses is avoiding contact with dissimilar metals. In the case of the dinghy, it had a number of old, bronze fittings and an ablative bottom paint that surely had copper in it. To keep water from washing out small particles of bronze materials or copper bottom paint (both are more noble that aluminum), I removed all of that and replaced most of the screws and garboard drain plugs with stainless steel and I will repaint the bottom with a paint appropriate for aluminum hulls. I'm thinking red bottom paint.

If you have any questions, ask. I probably won't know the answer, but ask anyway.
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Old 01-07-2019, 09:07 AM   #36
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Turning rope into dockline is another good way to kill a few weekends. Cutting, splicing and whipping took about 1 beer per line. For some reason I can only do one or two lines at a time...
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Old 01-07-2019, 03:25 PM   #37
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I got a couple update photos. Looks like transom, both watertight bulkheads, and all 11 frames are in place with a few stringers tacked into place. These aren't great pictures, I'll see how they upload and delete them if it's too hard to tell what they are. I'll try to get some better pics my next trip down there.

The first shot is the transom with the propeller pockets visible. The second shot is the pointy end.

I've only had a couple questions and comments via PM. Maybe I should ask if anyone has an opinion on what anchor to use? JK - I'm using a 10lb mushroom anchor with 35' of 1/4" nylon.
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Old 01-16-2019, 09:28 AM   #38
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I got an email asking for an update so I figured I'd do it here.

We anticipate hull flip will be around 1 Feb. That's a little bit behind schedule - but the biggest hold up seems to be that one of my two John Deere engines is being held hostage in Mexico. More accurately, they are having issues getting it through customs. I don't know whether that's tied to the government shutdown or simply because my engine's asylum claim is being reviewed.

I'll try to get some more photos posted. BTW - if anyone knows how to get an engine from Torreon, Mexico to North Carolina, I'm all ears!
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Old Yesterday, 01:29 PM   #39
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I'm not sure who is reading this besides my mom, but on the off chance anyone is watching her come together, here's another update.

Framing is complete in the first shot. Those pretty bits of aluminum running fore and aft are the engine stringers.

Since the engine is delayed, they are constructing out of sequence a little and starting on tacking the house together in the next two shots. I'm still hoping the hull flip will be in a few weeks. They will flip the hull once the majority of the hull skin plates are installed. I understand the last couple skin plates get put in place after she is right side up.

If anyone is still awake, let me know. (actually, I just wanted to practice putting in an emoji; I don't have kids to show me how these things work.)
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Old Yesterday, 01:50 PM   #40
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Hey, I'm reading them. Thanks for posting and keeping us updated
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