For Sale: '98 Carver 355 twin diesel for sale

[smitty477]

"How so?"


6 months ago I sold my Bayliner 4788 and 11 years ago I sold a 1988 Bayliner 4588 both of those deals without a broker. I see huge differences between the two time frames here are just a few of the big ones.
- before the economic downturn of 2008 or so there were more buyers and much easier financing for the larger used boats
- the internet has now become the key tool used by many buyers replacing visits boat shows and the like. I believe this does a disservice to buyers but it greatly affects sellers as well, not realizing this can be a barrier to sell.
- Many of the potential used boat buyers in the past were very 'handy'. That is they came from trades and/or had mechanical or electrical skills or similar skills and had no issues with evaluating and or correcting boats deficiencies. Back then a used boat would attract many technical questions about the engines, running gear and the like. Today you can expect many questions about things like blenders, bedding and requests for pictures or the blinds and shades. Many new buyers know very little about these used boats and even less about the mechanicals that make them work.


The potential buyers are not lese intelligent, and in most cases very sharp - its just that they know about software, or accounting, or maybe investment management but not about boats and the things that TF members speak about every day. Yes- there are a few trade-up buyers that are boaters that may answer an add , but not like 10-12 years back.
All in all I have sold at least a dozen boats above the $50K line in the last 25 years and 3 in the past 3 years and the landscape today is quite different than 10 years back.
At least with the dozens and dozens of inquiries that I fielded over the past few years.

 

[BruceK]

I agree with Baker about distinguishing the "ask" and actual "sale" price. If your "ask" is very close to Blake Davis`s sold prices, your "ask" is probably close to his. Blake Davis,screen name "Pilothouse King", was a TF member until a couple of years ago.

 

[Toolbuddie]

Anyway, I'm thinking of toning down the mechanics and focusing on the inside cosmetics and entertainment systems.

Bingo, Bling sells everything that isn't covered under Sex sells.
Respectfully suggesting:
Be patient. It WILL take time for the right buyer to arrive at the time they actually have or can get the required funds. I quietly suggest to give the basic outline on your boat and wait for questions. Give some of the tire kickers a chance. Sometime we don’t understand the value of something until we give it some thought. (We the prospective buyer) The monetary value of the Diesel engines for example. I know people who buy things they don’t understand but like the Bling. Odd to me. But I know and have seen them buy expensive things without understanding what it was they bought. ANYWAY good luck the right ones will show up when you may least expect them.
Dave

 

[bayview]

The idea of one new engine will beg the question of when the other will need replacing.

Smitty's observation is spot on with mine. few of today's buyers know boats and spend time fixing them. Just like home buyers they want turn key.

Your idea of focusing on cosmetics is probably better. Now that you mentioned it I probably scared off people by giving too much detail. I have been watching home flip TV shows lately and notice they never mention the work done just the great looking cosmetics.

 

[IRENE]

(QUOTE) the internet has now become the key tool used by many buyers replacing visits boat shows and the like. I believe this does a disservice to buyers but it greatly affects sellers as well, not realizing this can be a barrier to sell.(UNQUOTE)

I fully concur with this statement about SELLERS. As a buyer, I can be immersed in the marketplace many days of the week, at home. Like a broker's office, boatyard, or boat show, the internet experiences vary and tell a story. I don't think a seller/broker should post a couple of photos and very limited information about a boat and expect that an experienced, informed, buyer will want to engage with you about a purchase...yet this is very common.

Timjet did a professional job with his website, which is superior to the majority of the listings done by the "professionals" and posted on Yachtworld. He has well-composed, properly-lit photos with minimal personal clutter involved. Most of the important data points are there. He provides the necessary information a prospective buyer needs to determine whether or not to spend the effort (funds) to proceed. It is clear that he knows his equipment and has invested in worthy upgrades (e.g. fuel filtration). This boat is worth a plane ticket for those in the market. Nicely done, Timjet.

 

[smitty477]

"Timjet did a professional job with his website, which is superior to the majority of the listings done by the "professionals" and posted on Yachtworld. He has well-composed, properly-lit photos with minimal personal clutter involved. Most of the important data points are there. He provides the necessary information a prospective buyer needs to determine whether or not to spend the effort (funds) to proceed. It is clear that he knows his equipment and has invested in worthy upgrades (e.g. fuel filtration). This boat is worth a plane ticket for those in the market. Nicely done, Timjet."


Except for the fact that when I googled "Carver 355 aft cabin for sale" his boat did not show up. Googling similar titles still did not bring up his boat. He has pointed out that he will fix that and I am sure that will make a difference. IMHO - save the heavier technical points of the boat, do not list the service items in detail, just point out that these are available to serious buyers and then they can ask.
It give you more reasons to stay in touch with potential serious buyers and does not scare folks away from things they know little or nothing about.

 

[IRENE]

Smitty,

You are right and it's a valid concern. I think a basic Craigslist ad, where a link to his website could be listed, would fix it.

Jeff

 

[expat]

Its tough for you the seller because you love your boat and have [a] $ invested and emotions invested. There are probably 100 tire [fender] kickers to 1 serious buyer. Don't despair it will sell it will take just 1 person, you just need to wait for them to come down your dock.

 

[Mainship400]

The forum for smaller boats (The Hull Truth) has a really good thread on selling your boat. You are doing many of the best practices laid out in this thread, so you will be successful. Marketing Tips To Sell Your Boat in Today's Economy [and a few on buying] - The Hull Truth - Boating and Fishing Forum


You have what appears to be a well maintained boat that seems realistically priced. You ad is excellent and actually got me interested in Carvers, which I thought I would never look at (LOL) Good luck!
I sold 3 boats myself generally in a period of less than 6 months following many of the points listed in the above thread. One thing you may consider is removing the statement "The price is firm." It may put some prospective purchasers off by suggesting you are not a person they can work with.
Regards
John

 

[pjcinmi]

Tim

Just a FYI... I tried to clicked on your link Account Suspended
and your account is SUSPENDED over there.

 

[BinkleyBoat]

Check your link Tim.

 

[O C Diver]

Not sure where else you can advertise the boat, but to me Craigslist list says cheap, may have problems, or owner between a rock and a hard place. IMO, people who contact a broker on average are after a better boat and may be willing to pay more for the same boat.

Ted

 

[Donsan]

Just a FYI... I tried to clicked on your link Account Suspended and your account is SUSPENDED over there.

They are referring to the link to flyinlowsale.com.

 

[Donsan]

Just a FYI... I tried to clicked on your link Account Suspended and your account is SUSPENDED over there.

The link seems to be working today.

 

[Nightsky]

Not sure if your boat has sold in the month between the last post and mine, but thought I would add an observation. As the recent first time purchaser of a recreational boat ('94 Carver 390) I did find some comfort in going through a broker when navigating the details of transferring title, lien searches, etc. By not using a broker to list and sell your vessel, you discourage any brokers acting for buyers from contacting you (what's in it for them), and also those buyers that are reticent to deal on such a large ticket item without some professional help, thereby reducing the pool of buyers.

 

[timjet]

You make a good point. A buyer who is reluctant to do the research necessary to survey, buy, transfer money, document and register a boat will pay the brokers fee without hesitation. I know for some there is some misplaced safety in using a broker. I will not attract that person so will subsequently loose any potential sale.

On the flip side a knowledgeable buyer will have no hesitation dealing with the practical and legal matters necessary to buy my boat. That buyer will know he will more than save the brokers commission in money and have the greatly added benefit in talking directly to me, the seller so he can determine the condition and how the boat was used. That buyer will know that he is likely paying less and I the seller will be getting more money for the boat without a broker.

I have sold 2 houses and a sailboat without a broker. I found the transactions on these sales to be much much easier than having a broker involved. I bought my current boat thru a broker and the sellers broker was a total jerk as was the seller. I should have walked and I think most people would have, but in the end I'm glad I got the boat though it took me almost 3 years to get it where I wanted it. As an example when I asked the broker a question about the boat he would reply "The seller doesn't know". After the sale I contacted the seller via e-mail and asked him what kind of bottom paint he used last or if he didn't know, where he had it painted. His reply: "I don't know". Incidentally the seller was a lawyer.

I have shown the boat to roughly 30 people, in 3 months time, so I am not having trouble finding people to view it. What I am having trouble is finding people that are true potential buyers. Perhaps a broker will help in this, but I am willing to wait and find that right buyer. I believe I will.

 

[timjet]

For people viewing my avatar, the dink is now and has been for sometime properly positioned with a forward and aft mount.

 

[timjet]

IMO, people who contact a broker on average are after a better boat and may be willing to pay more for the same boat.

Ted

I think Ted is right. I probably thought that way when I bought my boat. My experience as described above refutes that notion.

My wife and I have been looking at motorhomes to buy after we sell the boat. Start the next chapter in our lives, so they say.
I've joined several forums and the consist advice concerning buying a motorhome is to buy from a seller and not from a dealer. This is somewhat akin to using a broker vs not using one. The reason; dealing with a seller will give the buyer the added advantage of talking directly to the seller to determine how the coach was use and the maintenance that was done.

Anyway time will tell and perhaps I'll end up eating my words, but I'm still going to try and sell it myself. I do think it will sell faster and I will get more.

 

[danderer]

I have shown the boat to roughly 30 people, in 3 months time, so I am not having trouble finding people to view it. What I am having trouble is finding people that are true potential buyers. Perhaps a broker will help in this, but I am willing to wait and find that right buyer. I believe I will.

I've been fortunate selling 'toys' without using brokers. In each case I sold to the first people who looked at the toy. Maybe I under-price them.

The last case was interesting. Listed our sailboat FSBO. At the same time we started looking for our current trawler. We went and saw a trawler (one we didn't buy) that was being shown by a broker.

During the conversation the broker asked about our current boat. He said he had a buyer looking to buy exactly that make and model, in the condition we described ours as being. (Yeah, right, sure.)

Told him I had no interest in listing the boat with the broker, but if he brought us a buyer I'd pay him 1/2 commission.

His agency agreed to that and surprisingly he really DID have the buyer he described. Sold the boat in a few days. And the broker convinced me I didn't need to replace the canvas before sale as I was planning, saving me more than his commission. He also helped out significantly when there was a debate out of the survey trying to determine what the HIN carved in the hull really was.

Not a typical scenario but it worked out well for all.

 

[what_barnacles]

Just another tip on the rv side of things...

Look at PPL motorhomes. They have a huge turnover of used diesel rv's, from ancient to 2016's. Folks use them as a consignment place but they are huge. Since Im not too far away I have went and checked them out. Id buy thru them, but as always buyer beware.

 

[sunchaser]

Tim

Many smart and experienced people use brokers, whether buying or selling. Many do not want to talk with the owner/seller because all too often the owner gets very defensive when legitimate issues are found. Good brokers have perfected the art of tough question answering, few owners have as they are not in the profession for a living.

The broker system has worked successfully for a very long time. That is where most buyers head, looking at those, adverts, websites and yacht world.

 

[timjet]

Thanks again all. I may have to rethink my decision about brokers. I'm going to continue thru the end of the year, but if it hasn't sold I may go the broker route. I know it's true that most people prefer to buy thru a broker, I was just hoping that a informed buyer might come along.
I had not thought about the negotiation that may be necessary if an issue is found at survey where a broker may be helpful. That's a very good point sunchaser.

I will definitely post when it has sold and describe my experience. I am showing it again today to a fellow from AZ that wants a condo on the water for when he visits. Apparently he has a slip in this area that my boat will just fit in. He offered me close to my asking price 2 weeks ago sight unseen. I rejected him, not because of the price, but because I didn't want to take it off the market and have him come 2 weeks later and find he didn't like it.

 

[timjet]

Just another tip on the rv side of things...

Look at PPL motorhomes. They have a huge turnover of used diesel rv's, from ancient to 2016's. Folks use them as a consignment place but they are huge. Since Im not too far away I have went and checked them out. Id buy thru them, but as always buyer beware.

I have bookmarked the site and do occasionally look at it. We won't buy until the boat sells, but I am getting familiar. It appears PPL has a lot of older rigs priced competitively. We will probably get something in the 2010-2011 range and I know they have some of those too.

Unlike boat's, with RV's it's somewhat of a sellers market. Baby-boomers are snapping them up. I live 30 minutes from Lazy Days in Tampa the largest dealer in the US. Their used coaches if they are in good shape don't stay on the lot long.
After joining several RV forums, I'm surprised how many former and current owners of RV's are or were boaters. As they say about the progression of toys: Sailboat, motorboat, motor-home, rest-home. That would be me.

 

[folivier]

Tim, another RV place to check out is Motorhomes of Texas in Nacogdoches.
They handle used Foretravels since the factory is nearby, and also used Newells which are in a class far above most other motorhomes.

 

[roguewave]

Tim, thanks for spending the time to keep us informed of your progress, great info from everyone.
I have bought and sold many things over the years, from motorcycles (40?), car/trucks (75), to commercial real estate (15) and residential (20) and have rarely used a broker or dealer on any of them (I'm not licensed to sell any).
When it came to buying our first big boat? (2 years ago) I went thru a broker, why? Because the ability to find a good boat, that I was interested in, was not found in the FSBO market. I looked and looked. I feel I'm a excellent researcher and have been my own mechanic for 40 something years. In the end, I just felt the by owner crowd did not have the quality of boat I was looking for. Wether that was true or not did not matter, it was perception.
I wish you the best for a quick sale in the new year, or before!

We have owned a few Motorhomes over the years, PPL is not my favorite place. Tiffin makes a superb rig, TiffinRVNetwork Classified Ads - Browse Ads

 

[koliver]

Tim, another RV place to check out is Motorhomes of Texas in Nacogdoches.
They handle used Foretravels since the factory is nearby, and also used Newells which are in a class far above most other motorhomes.

Thread drift warning.


Tim
Unless you have been in the Motorhome market for a while, or have fairly broad experience with Motorhomes, chances are slim that you will want to enter the market as high on the price points as Foretravel, Newell or Prevost. Those are priced 3 to 10 times the new price of the lesser brands. Regardless of original price, the depreciation curve on any Motorhome is fairly predictable and affects the higher priced units at the same percentages every year as it does the lower priced units. Judging only by the type of boat you are selling, my guess is that you don't want to experience the higher cost to depreciate an expensive motorhome unless it is your last.

A 2010 Monaco, Newmar, American or other mid price brand will cost enough in depreciation every year, but will still deliver a great quality lifestyle. A cheaper brand, Winnebago, Fleetwood or even a gasser will cost a lot less, but then you are entering the area of fewer quality features and more maintenance difficulties.

By the time you have owned for 5 years you will know all this. Starting out is a very steep learning curve.

PM me if you want to me to share more.

 

[Onward]

Consider raising your price by $10,000 and CONSIDER taking a trade in as part payment. You are not obligated, but a 20 foot center console at a trade in of $18,000 will be a lot easier to sell. Almost every boat I have sold included a trade in. In some cases I kept it for a year or so, in some I turned it around and sold it quickly.

Jim

 

[timjet]

OK folks, I am officially super frustrated. So remember the guy from AZ I was to show the boat to yesterday (see my post above)? We arrange an 11:30 showing. I leave the house at 0930, it’s an hour’s drive and it takes me 30 minutes to prep the boat – lower the dink, open all the canvas, put the deck cushions out, wash the accumulated dirt off the boat, turn on all the lights, open the blinds, etc. So on my drive to the boat a guy calls that I’ve talked to about the boat before and wants to see it, he’s from Sarasota, 45 minutes from the boat. I ask him can we meet at 1300 today and surprisingly he says yes.

So I have two showings today, this is good – it saves me another half day of going to the boat, prepping it and driving home. This will now be the thirty first and thirty second time I’ve shown the boat since I’ve put it up for sale in early September.

So I meet the AZ guy at the dock masters office at 1145, 15 minutes late, and he shows up with his wife and 3 friends. Who does that? 5 people on my boat are running into each other. Recall he had offered me very close to my asking price several weeks ago sight unseen saying this is the perfect boat for the 15 X 40 slip he is buying. So on our way walking from the dock masters office to the boat I ask him if he has looked at other boats. He says he has looked at a couple of 50 footers. What I say, you can’t put those in your slip. He says “OH, we decided to buy a 20 X 60 foot slip”! OK folks a 20 X 60 ft slip in this area costs in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. If he is truthful he is loaded and will fill that slip with a 50 footer, probably one he’s already looked at. So I’m thinking why are we looking at my boat? My guess, he felt like he was being nice and didn’t want to upset me by cancelling the showing after showing so much interest. So anyway I show the boat and with 6 people milling around including me, it’s crowded. Wife almost immediately says this boat is small. Well yes after looking at 50 footers my boat is microscopic. We go to the helm, not all of us, me, wife and husband. He sits her in front of the helm and seems impressed with the electronics. Radars on overlaying the plotter, secondary plotters on, autopilot, vhf radio, etc. So he begins to tell his wife how important the radar is and all the other stuff. The wife is sitting there with this glaze on her eyes, her mind totally on one of those 50 footers she’s already seen. The husband does actually seem interested, but by this time I’m totally uninterested and for the most part quit showing the boat, but I’m not telling them to leave, just letting them look around. Husband asks to see the engines.
I explain the multistage filtration, squeeze bulb priming system, vacuum gauge camera and fresh water flush, mostly out of pride I guess, again thinking why are we wasting our time. The wife of one of their friends seems the most interested in the boat. She asks about the TV in the salon, which is on, sound muted, and comments about how comfortable the couch is. Well yes, it’s a flexsteel unit with recline and foot support with soft expensive leather. Wife and I have fallen asleep watching TV many times on it. So after 30 minutes they leave, “We’ll let you know” husband says. Hey what about that offer you presented me 2 weeks ago, I’m thinking. Two of their friends have been off the boat looking at other 50 foot + boats in the marina for the last 10 minutes.

Ok, so I have 40 minutes before the next showing. I vacuum the carpet which was clean before the last showing but with 6 people milling around… They show up right on time wife and husband only – this is good they respect my time too. They take about 15 minutes looking at the salon, fwd stateroom and galley, and we sit on the very comfortable flexsteel couch with now extended foot support, radio playing smooth music in the background and discuss the boat. This is nice they say, I readily agree. We talk for 5 minutes or so and I proudly say, “well we’ve only seen half the boat, the master stateroom awaits”. They look and the wife seems especially impressed. Very nice stateroom and we really want that in our boat. She further asks, “Is this carpet new”. I’m flabbergasted. How do I respond to such a simple question? An explanation is in order. This is the original carpet, recall this is a 1998 boat. It shows it, but I had cleaned it with a carpet cleaner the week before. I’m flabbergasted at the question because in a showing early in September, a guy I showed it too liked the boat but said the carpet looked original and needed replacing. Ok so I cleaned it, but it ain’t that much cleaner. People are fu??k… crazy! The saying “one man’s trash is another man’s treasure comes to mind. But in further discussions with the husband it’s apparent that he is not a boater at least not in this size boat. So I’m thinking, he’s a looker, I’ve done this enough time to spot em. If I hear from him again it will be “Thanks for showing us the boat, we’re still looking and if interested will let you know”.

I get home at 1800 hrs, spent the whole day at the boat. Done this 32 times. So now anxiously waiting for the thirty third looker. Well not really. Look for Flyin Low on Yacht World in early January when it’s with a broker.

 

[sunchaser]

Tim

I'm sure a top notch broker could retell your story on virtually every boat they've listed.

RV question - are the Freightliner chassis, front ends and suspension systems that seem common in the higher end units akin to talking about "quality" boats? Or do RV buyers focus on leather couches and TVs like many boaters do? Seems a similar set of wants when people are boat buying.

 

[Donsan]

Hey Tim, well, you now have had at least a couple of showings that more or less commented negatively on the carpeting. Maybe, even cleaned, the carpeting doesn't look that great since it is about 18 years old. You want to sell and probably don't want to put more money into it but I would think replacing the carpeting might not be the most expensive thing to have done. It might be worth considering. Of course 32 more showings might dirty up the carpet again.

Most buyers will probably bring their wife. I know I would. Have you given any consideration to having your wife with you at the showings to go over things and work the buyers wife? If she can sell the buyers Admiral, you might sell the boat.

When we listed our boat, I believe the listing agreement said if we found the buyer, we didn't have to pay the commission or it was reduced. We made no attempt to sell it ourselves. I think it was called a Uniform Listing Agreement or something like that. You might want to ask for that clause or something like it as some people who know you are selling may be procrastinating for various reasons.

Being rigid on price is a slippery slope. I suspect every one of those 32 showings you had, the buyer had in his mind the price is REALLY negotiable. That is just human nature. Listing with a broker won't change that. The broker may be able to provide selling prices from soldboats.com to support a listing price but I suspect the listing price would need to be 10% higher for commissions and another 10% for negotiating a price range you could come down on. That would probably put the listing price to around $95K. The broker can advise you on how likely someone is to offer anywhere near that but at least coming down 10% from $95K will make the buyer think he got a good deal. Certainly, you are aware that each month the boat is unsold is another month of marina fees ($700/mo est), bottom cleanings, normal maintenance, insurance ($300/mo est) and maybe even finance costs. So it is costing you at least $1K a month to hang on for desired price and you already have had 3 months by. It will all eventually come down to how bad you want that RV and in what time frame. We took a big loss on our boat because eventually, we wanted to move our dirt home to the St Johns river and sell out all our Michigan assets.

Anyway, best of luck in finding a buyer.