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09-08-2015, 08:21 PM
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#21
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Veteran Member
City: Fl
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce
Doubt it, but a flat sail would be easier/cheaper to make.
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Doesn't work that way, a sail for say a 40' may cost $500-1,000.
Used less $$.
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09-08-2015, 08:30 PM
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#22
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Enigma
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,566
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Greetings,
Had a stay sail on a previous boat (34' Marine Trader). Flew it a couple of times and it only seemed to work in a rear quartering breeze stiff enough to put a slight heel on the boat. About 24 sq feet if I recall. I tried the "right of way" ploy with my boating friends on several occasions whilst "sailing" but they OBVIOUSLY were unaware of COLREGS and replied with no end of insults and ribald comments....Boors!
The Admiral said the boom got in her way so it was used very infrequently.
__________________
RTF
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09-08-2015, 08:34 PM
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#23
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Master and Commander
City: Vallejo CA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: penultimate Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,559
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Maneuvering without changing the jib sheet
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
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09-08-2015, 08:34 PM
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#24
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Veteran Member
City: Fl
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly
Greetings,
Had a stay sail on a previous boat (34' Marine Trader). Flew it a couple of times and it only seemed to work in a rear quartering breeze stiff enough to put a slight heel on the boat. About 24 sq feet if I recall.
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Perhaps you didn't know the correct way to trim the sail.
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09-08-2015, 08:39 PM
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#25
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Veteran Member
City: Fl
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 58
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The jib sheet can be let lose as you make your turn, then trim in.
But I also see your main is really set bad, the clew needs to be tightened up and flatten that main up a lot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce
Maneuvering without changing the jib sheet
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09-08-2015, 08:40 PM
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#26
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Master and Commander
City: Vallejo CA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: penultimate Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly
Greetings,
Had a stay sail on a previous boat (34' Marine Trader). Flew it a couple of times and it only seemed to work in a rear quartering breeze stiff enough to put a slight heel on the boat. About 24 sq feet if I recall. ...
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Twenty-four feet square? That's pathetic.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
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09-08-2015, 08:47 PM
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#27
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Master and Commander
City: Vallejo CA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: penultimate Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo2015
The jib sheet can be let lose as you make your turn, then trim in.
But I also see your main is really set bad, the clew needs to be tightened up and flatten that main up a lot.
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Was making a 360-degree maneuver to give FlyWright photo shots. The jib has only one sheet (controlling the clew). To change from on side to another (tack), the sail needs to be rolled up and the sheet moved to the opposite side of the boat.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
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09-08-2015, 08:53 PM
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#28
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Guru
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce
Doubt it, but a flat sail would be easier/cheaper to make.
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Then again maybe it's a riding sail that is cut flat. Of course if you want to make your steadying sail dual purpose you'd want to have it cut flat I guess.
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09-08-2015, 08:56 PM
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#29
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Senior Member
City: Port Townsend WA
Vessel Name: Panope
Vessel Model: Colvin Saugeen Witch, Aluminum
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 294
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Here is a link to a short video of Panope making good Westward progress in the Strait of Juan de Fuca en-route to Barkley sound https://youtu.be/WFnZx1ehStI . The sail being used (reefed main) is about 350 sq. feet. Boat displaces about 7 tons. Virtually all roll was eliminated and perhaps 1/2 knot of speed gained. Maybe more than a 1/2 knot as the boat will typically slow substantially when bashing into head seas under engine alone. With the sail up and normal cruise power set, the boat seemed immune to the slowing effect of the waves.
This ship arrived in Ucluelet (West Coast of Vancouver Is.), dropped anchor and never touched the sail. Sail looked like it had been used alot.
Steve
__________________
If I visualize my boat without a mast, I see a trawler.
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09-08-2015, 09:50 PM
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#30
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Enigma
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,566
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Greetings,
Messrs. J and mp. The OP asked the question of whether a stabilizing sail would help in beam seas. I am stating MY experience with the equipment that came with the boat under conditions I experienced. I don't know or care how to "trim a sail" and wouldn't have dreamed of replacing that "pathetic" sail with anything larger. It was more trouble than it seemed to be worth, the Admiral didn't like it BUT the bonus was....It was a fabulous joke attempting to "intimidate" my boating friends while emulating the sailing snots that frequented our cruising waters. Yes snots! Right of way...right of way...
__________________
RTF
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09-08-2015, 10:45 PM
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#31
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Guru
City: Gibsons, B.C., Canada
Vessel Name: Island Pride
Vessel Model: Palmer 32'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,414
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That boat/ship [post 29] with the sail looks a LOT like a vessel that was shore tied in various places around Howe Sound for a bunch of years. The owner I was told , was marking time untill he could finish it. When I saw it , it was pretty rough. Looks like he or someone did finish it.
Tis a North Sea type trawler. Good looking boat. This looks like the same vessel, other than colours, but I cannot say for sure. Glad to see it being used.
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09-08-2015, 11:12 PM
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#32
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Veteran Member
City: Fl
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly
MY experience with the equipment that came with the boat under conditions I experienced. I don't know or care how to "trim a sail" and wouldn't have dreamed of replacing that "pathetic" sail with anything larger.
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Therefore, like I guessed you didn't know (or care) how to trim it,
so your uneducated experience is of little import.
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09-08-2015, 11:47 PM
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#33
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Guru
City: Sydney
Vessel Name: Sojourn
Vessel Model: Integrity 386
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 13,330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo2015
Therefore, like I guessed you didn't know (or care) how to trim it,
so your uneducated experience is of little import.
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That`s not very nice.
With the Coot pics, the boom seems to just provide an outhaul for the clew. Do any of the sail setups on trawlers use a track on the boom? Or the mast?
My IG has no sail facility at all.
__________________
BruceK
2005 Integrity 386 "Sojourn"
Sydney Australia
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09-09-2015, 12:02 AM
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#34
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Veteran Member
City: Fl
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 58
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Tracks on a boom are a thing of the past, they use a block & tackle usually inside the boom to adjust the clew, from flat to perhaps 8-10" of curve.
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09-09-2015, 12:28 AM
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#35
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Veteran Member
City: Hobsonville, Auckland
Vessel Name: Nordic Blue
Vessel Model: Nimbus 380 Commander
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly
Greetings,
Had a stay sail on a previous boat (34' Marine Trader). Flew it a couple of times and it only seemed to work in a rear quartering breeze stiff enough to put a slight heel on the boat. About 24 sq feet if I recall. I tried the "right of way" ploy with my boating friends on several occasions whilst "sailing" but they OBVIOUSLY were unaware of COLREGS and replied with no end of insults and ribald comments....Boors!
The Admiral said the boom got in her way so it was used very infrequently.
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Twenty four square feet is only 6ft x 4ft. Sail being (say) 8ft high on a 6ft boom. Did you mean 24ft square?
In NZ waters a sailboat with engine running (sails up or not) is considered a power boat, so no right of way.
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09-09-2015, 06:46 AM
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#36
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Guru
City: Victoria TX
Vessel Name: Bijou
Vessel Model: 2008 Island Packet PY/SP
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo2015
Therefore, like I guessed you didn't know (or care) how to trim it,
so your uneducated experience is of little import.
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And your snotty responses are also "of little import" here on this forum IMO.
Treat people how you want to be treated. We are like a little family here, so BE NICE.
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09-09-2015, 06:51 AM
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#37
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Enigma
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,566
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Greetings,
Mr. G. Yup, 8' high by 6' along the boom is about the size as I remember. So a square that size is 48 sq' (L X W). The triangular sail area would be about half that would it not? I fully appreciate the dinky size but given the size of the mast and boom, it's the largest that would fit in the space AND it came with the boat. I suppose I could have extended my mast and boom to a ludicrous,unsafe size and used a humongous sail and gained, what?, another knot or 2, the ability to motor along at a very uncomfortable angle to the point of capsize but I purchased a power boat. NOT a motor sailer or sail boat. Horses for courses.
Those vessels that have the mechanism/equipment/design to hoist a larger sail and how large, I have no idea, would most probably achieve some modicum of stabilization and minimization of hunting at anchor as evidenced by the anecdotal posts above.
As I mentioned in post #22 I did experience some effect but for me, as stated, it wasn't worth the effort other than the "giggle" factor.
As far as trimming? To what purpose with a 24sq.' sail? "...uneducated experience is of little import..." For sure. Ignorance is bliss.
The area we used to boat in had the same stipulation that a sailboat under engine power was also considered a motor boat regardless of how much sail it had up and I'm positive none of the former sailors here on TF ever abused ANY right-of-way laws but they most assuredly weren't part of the sailing fraternity I used to encounter.
__________________
RTF
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09-09-2015, 08:35 AM
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#38
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Member
City: Sacramento, CA
Vessel Name: Brave Duck
Vessel Model: 1988 Lord Nelson Victory Tug
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11
A steady sail will do little or nothing about wakes. Unless perhaps the wind is blowing strong and the boat is already pinned over very hard to one side.
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What about the roll? Would a steadying sail not slow the roll? Sister boats seem to think so, although I have yet to verify this.
We displace 10 tons and have 3000# of ballast in our keel. Although the sail would be small, it would seem that is would add some air resistance (and slow the roll) even without a wind
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09-09-2015, 09:07 AM
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#39
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Guru
City: Adelaide
Vessel Name: Kokanee
Vessel Model: Cuddles 30 Pilot House Motor Sailer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pdeli
What about the roll? Would a steadying sail not slow the roll? Sister boats seem to think so, although I have yet to verify this.
We displace 10 tons and have 3000# of ballast in our keel. Although the sail would be small, it would seem that is would add some air resistance (and slow the roll) even without a wind
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I think you may have missed the first page of replies.
Without wind, a stabilizing sail has minimal effect. It needs a substantial force (wind force X sail area) pushing against the boat's righting motion.
Enough that the force of the waves rolling under the boat becomes insignificant in comparison.
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09-09-2015, 09:51 AM
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#40
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Guru
City: Cowiche, WA
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 662
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We owned a Willard 30/4 or Mk 4 for a few years. It had a deep draft for a Willard of 4'11" and 18" of cast iron keel bolted on. Our first trip was from Seattle to Desolation Sound and we crossed the Strait of Georgia twice from Nanaimo to Madeira Park and back. Both times using the steadying sail and both times with the typical winds on the beam after 10 AM. We did not have to tack like All the other boats we saw to quarter into the wind waves. The highest waves were in the 3-5' range so it wasn't as rough as it can get out there but the sail almost completely negated the beam seas. We drove from the flybridge the entire time and rocked like a hobby horse for the crossings.
Do they work? In this case I have to say yes on this boat it worked great. We continued to use it as long as we owned it and the current owner uses it too.
__________________
Keith Olive
1974 Grand Banks 36-427
Vashon Island, WA
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