Helmsman takes over Camano

The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
That is in the latest PassageMaker magazine.

It looks like they've completely rearranged the interior. Not much else is shown on that website.
 
Last edited:
That is in the latest PassageMaker magazine.

It looks like they've completely rearranged the interior. Not much else is shown on that website.

Ron, from what little we can currently glean from the website, what are your thoughts on the changes? It seems to be a better use of space, in that there is now a separate shower, but as a Camano owner, how does it look to you?

From your avatar it looks like you already have the hardtop over the cockpit, and I've seen at least one other Camano with it so I assume it has been an option in the past.

I don't like the the new window treatment!
 
We have a soft canvas top it was fine. But a hard top would be nice for a place to mount a sat tv dome, and other things. I personally like the new layout.
 
There are a few custon built hard cockpit covers and I think there was one on the last Camano built before this sale.

From a casual glance at the website I don't think I like the layout. I would have to see an actual boat to decide. As small as a Camano Troll is, I can't see wasting space on a seperate shower and moving the galley up reduces saloon space.

If we're at a marina we use the marina showers. If we're anchored alone we shower in the cockpit so it's only at a dock or crowdwd anchorage where we shower inside anyway.

The new berth layout looks like one person would have to crawl over the other to get out. At our age we need to get out of bed during the night. ;)

BTW: I have a canvas cockpit cover. Someone on the Camano owners website was giving away a custom hard cover but I was a day late. Someone else got it.
 
Last edited:
Here's something else that seems odd:

"Hyundai SeasAll engine — a smooth-running, efficient V6 250 hp powerplant."

Hyundai isn't big in the marine diesel market, at least in the USA. Also, with all the talk on boating foums about the problems with underloading a diesel, why would they increase the horsepower? The 200 HP I have is more than I need.
 
Waterline Boats

Scott at Waterline boats appears to be doing all the right things to position his imports to become a major player in the small - mid size boat marketplace. The boats coming out of the small yard appear to have very good quality (Helmsman Trawlers) at an unbeatable price. If they can continue to stay small they may be able to capture a large part of this market. I know of two previous Nordhavn owners who have moved to the Helmsman 38PH boats after they were done with open ocean cruising and are very pleased with their boats. Trips to Alaska were uneventful with their new boats. This has to say something about the boats.

John T.
 
Camano Trolls

Where does Helmsman actually construct the "new" Camano Trolls??

I'm not familiar with the Camano boats but understand they have a strong following and unique hull. Scott at Waterline Boats purchased the tooling and shipped it to the yard that builds Helmsman trawlers in China. His plan is to bring this unique little boat back to market with a much higher level of quality, great interior finish at a very competitive price. Based on what I have seen with the Helmsman line of boats I expect this boat to compete very well with boats like Ranger Tugs.

John
 
We owned a 2002 Camano from 2004-2008 they are very well made and fun boats. A 250 hp engine does sound like overkill, I wonder how wide the V configured engine is compared to the inline volvo and how it affects engine room space. Mine would plane with the Volvo 210hp but fuel consumption went way up. The Saloon and FB have lots of room for that size boat.
Good luck to them
 
We owned a 2002 Camano from 2004-2008 they are very well made and fun boats. A 250 hp engine does sound like overkill, I wonder how wide the V configured engine is compared to the inline volvo and how it affects engine room space. Mine would plane with the Volvo 210hp but fuel consumption went way up. The Saloon and FB have lots of room for that size boat.
Good luck to them
I wonder about the 250 HP engine also. Every time an engine thread comes up, there's the argument that underloading a diesel engine is bad for it. Mine is a 200 HP Volvo with a maximum RPM of 3900. I normally cruise at 2000 so I'm sure it's underloaded. Running any faster greatly increases the fuel use.

As for the other comment about increased quality, I haven't been on a lot of boats but to me, the Camano quality is very high. It was never a "cheap" boat.
 
I did a bare boat charter of a Camano. Loved it. V6....gives me eye trouble just thinking of it.......JUST CANNOT SEE IT.... I like in line engines serviceable from one side, also less to go wrong.
 
My wife and I just finished a 76 day cruise on the AICW and Chesapeake Bay in ours and the Volvo purred like a kitten at 2K RPM. And yes, the Volvo inline 6 is very easy to get at for routine service.

Nothing seems to have been updated on that website since the original post. I'm going to contact them for a price on the hard top and see what they say.
 
Camano were not cheap boats. They tried early on to compete somewhat with lower priced boats by deleting the bridge on one model and realized it was pointless.

They tried to keep up the quality and thus earn some money.

We do have several specialized builders still in the area who build high quality, not gold plated, but good quality boats.

Hopefully that continues to be the case although I am sorry to see the building going to China.
 
At least it appears that the Camano fits very nicely into Helmsman's product line....maybe a smart decision. I favor that to having another proven design going the way so many others have since the economy tanked.
 
Last edited:
I wonder about the 250 HP engine also. Every time an engine thread comes up, there's the argument that underloading a diesel engine is bad for it. Mine is a 200 HP Volvo with a maximum RPM of 3900. I normally cruise at 2000 so I'm sure it's underloaded. Running any faster greatly increases the fuel use.

That argument is only valid in very limited conditions. It's valid for Generators because of how they're tuned. It's also true when an engine is tuned for constant use and heavy loads. Then running it at 75-80% is appropriate. However, you can take a 1500 hp diesel and run it at 1000 rpm's and just open it up periodically and not have any issues, because it's probably designed for a lighter load. The engine manufacturers do match the specific engines to the anticipated load. MTU, for instance, may offer the same basic engine in six to ten different configurations.

As to the 250 hp Honda I have no idea what load they're building it for.
 
On China builds, I read an interesting article the other day in a trade pub I get. It seems that China is fairly rapidly losing the cost benefit it has had. Labor costs are rising. There are still substantial quality control and build consistency issue that increase warranty costs. Not to mention a lot of uncertainty in dealing with the bureaucratic structure in China. Add the transportation costs, and building in China has become much less attractive. It is interesting that the same issues arose with building in Taiwan. Taiwan addressed the issue by helping good yards develop the infrastructure, and then the yards, along with the government, worked hard to have a very high quality, well trained work force. China is not there yet.

More builders are going to be building back in the US in the upcoming years. One example, Gunboat just bought a yard in Wanchese, NC and is moving production from China back to the US. Among the issues mentioned above, they also discovered that 6 months after introducing their 60', built in China, the yard was offering knock offs for sale in Asia.
 
On China builds, I read an interesting article the other day in a trade pub I get. It seems that China is fairly rapidly losing the cost benefit it has had. Labor costs are rising. There are still substantial quality control and build consistency issue that increase warranty costs. Not to mention a lot of uncertainty in dealing with the bureaucratic structure in China. Add the transportation costs, and building in China has become much less attractive. It is interesting that the same issues arose with building in Taiwan. Taiwan addressed the issue by helping good yards develop the infrastructure, and then the yards, along with the government, worked hard to have a very high quality, well trained work force. China is not there yet.

More builders are going to be building back in the US in the upcoming years. One example, Gunboat just bought a yard in Wanchese, NC and is moving production from China back to the US. Among the issues mentioned above, they also discovered that 6 months after introducing their 60', built in China, the yard was offering knock offs for sale in Asia.

Actually this has happened in manufacturing many times over the years. One country would become low cost and five years later it was at the upper end. I remember manufacturing in Jamaica and the cost benefits, but soon the costs there were double nearby countries.

Now, the other thing we found was that labor and weight were the keys. As to labor if you took capital intensive rather than labor intensive businesses then the savings were minimal. If items were light then offshore logically saved far more than heavy items. You see concrete fences imported from Venezuela, you wonder what is buried in the posts, or at least customs does.

I was involved a bit recently in looking at a boat builder that manufactures in the far east but sells the majority of their boats in the US. I figured that they could build in the US and be less expensive than their current landed cost. Now they weren't the most efficient builder so could improve where they are.

But builders like Hatteras/Cabo and Westport are competitive. All the sportsfishing boat builders are. Then look at Sea Ray, Carver/Marquis. Then all the runabouts. Look at where Ocean Alexander is building their 120' MY. Christiansen is building it in the US.

The largest boat builders in the world are not in low cost labor countries. Italy has the largest. The Netherlands, the UK, Germany. Ultimately the Chinese builders will survive or not based on quality. Nordhavn is priced high and sells fine. Other builders like Horizon have been there for decades and done well. Horizon has done well in Taiwan. But when it comes to building boats for sale in the US market, I'm convinced today that you can build them in the US as cost effectively as anywhere.

Now if you're talking about a blouse or pair of shorts that's just not the case.

One other comment. While labor costs and wages have been a tremendous advantage for Chinese builders, there were other factors too. They spent the money to build first class facilities and to train workers. Many of the US facilities lagged decades behind. Now when it comes to runabouts and lake boats, there are some incredible US facilities. But they are very limited when it comes to Trawlers and MY's. Some of the US builders here, those that have stayed current in technology, are doing well. Others have failed to change for decades and are surviving based on commercial building.

Look how many Princess, Sunseeker, Ferretti, Pershing, Riva, Benetti, Azimut and other yachts from Europe are selling in the US. Same labor costs as US plus the shipping. And again I'll mention sportsfishing boats. The US builders own the market.

Now similarly I know US builders hoping to make inroads in the Far East. Maybe short term, but long term it will not make sense for those in China to buy US built boats. Marquis has a China dealer. There really aren't any Chinese builders concentrating in their size and type boat. But the moment one does, the cost disadvantage of buying from the US will be quite significant and the quality little different. Now still some will buy simply because the boat they like is built in the U.S. Similarly, some buy the boats built in China with the cost having little influence but it's the boat they really like.
 
Regarding the cost of building China, labor costs have risen quicker (percentage speaking) then other major industrial countries and when combined with the cost of shipping products, the overall cost of manufacturing has increased. While some companies have started to look at bringing manufacturing back to the US those products are not extensively labor intensive. An example is GE washer and dryers. The company I work for in the Aerospace Industry finds itself having to outsource most all our manufacturing to remain competitive.

Having attempted to build a new east-coast Downeast boat just a couple of years ago I found the cost was prohibitive to get the level of finish we wanted. Add in $15 - $20K for shipping the boat to the west coast compare to under $40K for shipping a boat from China and its not a driving force that changes the labor cost savings. I believe US companies can build great boats at competitive pricing but where we fall short will be in fit and finish. We *USA" just cannot afford to spend the hundreds of hours to hand craft interiors like fine furniture.

I recognize this debate can go on forever and there are hundreds of other more important aspects of boat building that need to be taken into consideration like design, quality, equipment, stability of the company, etc..... but in the end I don't think we (UAS) will ever return to building any product that is labor intensive like a boat. Just my thoughts.

John T.
3 X Nordhavn Owner and looking for our next boat
 
That argument is only valid in very limited conditions. ...........

I'm surprised the engine experts haven picked up on your statement becaus it usually get argued a lot here.

The Camano may have the large engine because with enough power it will go much faster than hull speed. Personally, I seldom do this, I just putt along at 2K RPM. If I'm in a hurry to get someplace I'll drive my car or fly.
 
I'm surprised the engine experts haven picked up on your statement becaus it usually get argued a lot here.

The Camano may have the large engine because with enough power it will go much faster than hull speed. Personally, I seldom do this, I just putt along at 2K RPM. If I'm in a hurry to get someplace I'll drive my car or fly.

You need to keep in mind that the majority of the boats here have small engines designed to push a heavy load in relation to their hp. A lot of engines are tuned max hp for speed and detuned for continuous use on a heavy load.

Taking an engine like an MTU S60. For work boats and continuous use it comes at 350, 375, 425, 451, 475, and 500 hp, all at 1800 rpm maximum. For faster vessels with high load factors it produces 475, 535, and 599 hp at a max of 2100 rpm. Then for faster vessels but with low load factors, it produces 625, 669, 740, 801, and 825 hp at 2300 rpm. Same basic engine.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom