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Old 06-13-2017, 10:22 PM   #801
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Hi dirtdoc1

What make boat is on your avatar. Looks interesting. Have you other photos?

Cheers!

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Old 06-13-2017, 11:51 PM   #802
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Congratulations on your new Helmsman. I'm curious. Why the Helmsman instead of the North Pacific? It looks to be about the same quality and the same capability. I like the hardtop on the NP45. That was a nice touch. They even look very similar but there is something about the NP45 that I really like. Maybe it's the hardtop. The interior of the Helmsman is very nice but it's very nice on the NP. Was price the main consideration? I think the Helmsman is priced a bit more competitively.
We actually looked at the NP and spoke with Trevor more than once during our research. While our knowledge of the NP line of boats is limited we do appreciate some of their characteristics but in the end we selected the Helmsman 38 for its quality, hull shape, beam, low profile PH, value and proven capability based upon two other Nordhavn owners who owned H38's and used them hard in the PNW including many trips to Alaska. Hull design is very important to us and we discovered the Helmsman design is more a modified full displacement hull than a semi displacement hull which try's to offer both FD and SD speeds. The Helmsman hull is soft in all types of weather conditions where a SD design can be a little more rough. She is a 7.5 knot boat which was the speed we were looking for. Yes she will top out around 12 knot's but we will never reach those speeds and burn a ton of gas. We burn under 2GPH all day have a range of 800 miles which meets our needs. If we had to do it all over again we would build another Helmsman without spending another two years researching everything else out there. Hope this answers your question.

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Old 06-14-2017, 01:03 AM   #803
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Hmm, John I believe an FD hull around your length would top out at about 8kn. The fact that you cruise economically at 7.5 and top out at 12 means there is quite a lot of SD in the Helmsman hull. Of course the NP may be even further towards the planing end of the spectrum. And I hear what you say: your 38 rides soft, so they have got the displacement right and pretty much nailed the amount of SD characteristic to include.
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Old 06-14-2017, 02:23 AM   #804
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We actually looked at the NP and spoke with Trevor more than once during our research. While our knowledge of the NP line of boats is limited we do appreciate some of their characteristics but in the end we selected the Helmsman 38 for its quality, hull shape, beam, low profile PH, value and proven capability based upon two other Nordhavn owners who owned H38's and used them hard in the PNW including many trips to Alaska. Hull design is very important to us and we discovered the Helmsman design is more a modified full displacement hull than a semi displacement hull which try's to offer both FD and SD speeds. The Helmsman hull is soft in all types of weather conditions where a SD design can be a little more rough. She is a 7.5 knot boat which was the speed we were looking for. Yes she will top out around 12 knot's but we will never reach those speeds and burn a ton of gas. We burn under 2GPH all day have a range of 800 miles which meets our needs. If we had to do it all over again we would build another Helmsman without spending another two years researching everything else out there. Hope this answers your question.

John
Hi John,

I didn't know about the hull difference. That was very helpful. Did you sea trial the NP45? I am also concerned about the hard chine design of the NP45. I have been looking at used late model Defever 49 or 50'. That's the boat I want but I don't want to spend $500k-$700k on a 10 year old boat. I think I'm going to end up with the NP45 because it's just about the right size for me and it's much more affordable. I'm going to sea trial the NP45 next week so I'll know better how she feels. Hopefully it will be a windy day.

While looking at the schematics I noticed that there was a 200 gal gas tank right next to a 175 gal water tank on each side of the boat. The two 175 gal water tanks could easily be used for gas instead. That would give her another 600 miles at 8 knots - at least. That would give her a range of approximately 1500 miles - conservatively. I'd add a high capacity water maker and put a 40gal water tank in the lazaret. I talked to Trevor about that and he said it could easily be done but suggested using the boat as is for a while, which I thought was sound advice. Any thoughts?

After reading your response I will be going in to the NP45 with a bit more information, so thanks for that.

Enjoy your new trawler and I hope to see you out there some day.

Cheers,

Dave
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Old 06-14-2017, 02:41 AM   #805
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Hi dirtdoc1

What make boat is on your avatar. Looks interesting. Have you other photos?

Cheers!

Art
It's a 2013 Carver C34 and it's for sale! Sorry about the sideways pics. They weren't that way originally.
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Old 06-14-2017, 02:59 AM   #806
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Hmm, John I believe an FD hull around your length would top out at about 8kn. The fact that you cruise economically at 7.5 and top out at 12 means there is quite a lot of SD in the Helmsman hull. Of course the NP may be even further towards the planing end of the spectrum. And I hear what you say: your 38 rides soft, so they have got the displacement right and pretty much nailed the amount of SD characteristic to include.
I like your Ocean Alexander 50. I've been looking at a couple of 2006 OA 50's. Very nice boat. Excuse me, Yacht.

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Old 06-14-2017, 08:39 AM   #807
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Thanks, Dave. Good luck selling your Carver and best times with your next boat! - Art
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Old 06-14-2017, 05:35 PM   #808
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[QUOTE=dirtdoc1;563361]

While looking at the schematics I noticed that there was a 200 gal gas tank right next to a 175 gal water tank on each side of the boat. The two 175 gal water tanks could easily be used for gas instead. That would give her another 600 miles at 8 knots - at least. That would give her a range of approximately 1500 miles - conservatively. I'd add a high capacity water maker and put a 40gal water tank in the lazaret. I talked to Trevor about that and he said it could easily be done but suggested using the boat as is for a while, which I thought was sound advice. Any thoughts?

/QUOTE]

With the watermaker you might go to just one of the 175 Gal Water Tanks but I'd never consider only 40 gallons. Too often timing just wouldn't work. Depending on how frequently you need more range, if it's a necessity for a crossing or something, they you might consider bladders.
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Old 06-14-2017, 06:01 PM   #809
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While looking at the schematics I noticed that there was a 200 gal gas tank right next to a 175 gal water tank on each side of the boat. The two 175 gal water tanks could easily be used for gas instead. That would give her another 600 miles at 8 knots - at least. That would give her a range of approximately 1500 miles - conservatively. I'd add a high capacity water maker and put a 40gal water tank in the lazaret. I talked to Trevor about that and he said it could easily be done but suggested using the boat as is for a while, which I thought was sound advice. Any thoughts?
I think any difference in the hull shapes are primarily marketing between the NP and the Helmsman. Both are SD hulls with the strengths and weaknesses inherent in an SD hull.

Both are well built boats. I would pick the one that has the layout that works best for you.

As for water/fuel tanks. 400 gal of fuel is a LOT of fuel. Unless you plan to cross oceans, or intend to drive the boat at it's max speed, it has plenty of range for a coastal cruiser. 350 gallons of water is a lot. I don't have a water maker because the PO pulled it out. He found he never needed it so it was a burden to maintain. A water maker would be good to have but I would hesitate to eliminate a water tank. The large tanks gives you a buffer in case you are in locations where you don't want run the water maker.

Btw, if you want to do passage making and want longer range, then I would suggest you not look at either the NP or the Helmsman. They are great coastal cruisers, but not passage makers.
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Old 06-14-2017, 11:25 PM   #810
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I think any difference in the hull shapes are primarily marketing between the NP and the Helmsman. Both are SD hulls with the strengths and weaknesses inherent in an SD hull.

Both are well built boats. I would pick the one that has the layout that works best for you.

As for water/fuel tanks. 400 gal of fuel is a LOT of fuel. Unless you plan to cross oceans, or intend to drive the boat at it's max speed, it has plenty of range for a coastal cruiser. 350 gallons of water is a lot. I don't have a water maker because the PO pulled it out. He found he never needed it so it was a burden to maintain. A water maker would be good to have but I would hesitate to eliminate a water tank. The large tanks gives you a buffer in case you are in locations where you don't want run the water maker.

Btw, if you want to do passage making and want longer range, then I would suggest you not look at either the NP or the Helmsman. They are great coastal cruisers, but not passage makers.
I'm not one to debate others but I need to make a comment here. There "is" a big difference between the Helmsman hull and all other "coastal cruisers" and the difference is the Helmsman is a modified full displacement hull and not a traditional semi displacement hull. The simple proof is softer ride and maximum speed. Everyone knows the limit of a FD hull is related to its hull length. If our 38 was a true FD it would max out around 6knotts. A true semi displacement hull would reach speeds around 20 knots. The fact we cruise at 7-7.5knots and max out at 11 - 12 knots confirms the deviation or modification from FD is minimal and possibly one of the better balanced hull designs in the small coastal cruising market place. The boat doesn't try to compete with the large market semi displacement market of go fast trawlers and is a special boat for those who understand the benefits of a FD hull but want just a touch more speed (20%) while keeping great range (800 miles). Hope this clarifies my original response.
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Old 06-15-2017, 10:42 AM   #811
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I'm not one to debate others but I need to make a comment here. There "is" a big difference between the Helmsman hull and all other "coastal cruisers" and the difference is the Helmsman is a modified full displacement hull and not a traditional semi displacement hull. The simple proof is softer ride and maximum speed. Everyone knows the limit of a FD hull is related to its hull length. If our 38 was a true FD it would max out around 6knotts. A true semi displacement hull would reach speeds around 20 knots. The fact we cruise at 7-7.5knots and max out at 11 - 12 knots confirms the deviation or modification from FD is minimal and possibly one of the better balanced hull designs in the small coastal cruising market place. The boat doesn't try to compete with the large market semi displacement market of go fast trawlers and is a special boat for those who understand the benefits of a FD hull but want just a touch more speed (20%) while keeping great range (800 miles). Hope this clarifies my original response.

I get it, but he was asking about the NP45 specifically compared to the Helmsman. Using your own metric, the NP42/43 hull cruises at 7 knots at 2gph (not as efficient as you have gotten with your Helmsman). Max speed is 10-12 knots. Very, very similar.
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Old 06-15-2017, 11:40 PM   #812
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nice surprise

Finally we had one of those unplanned and unexpected trips which started after work and intended to be a short one hour run just to keep the engine tuned. After a short stop at the pump out station we headed to the inlet and planned run outside but quickly realized it was 5:30pm and we didn't want to eat dinner too late so I told Mary we better turn around. With dinner on our mind Mary suggested we anchor out in our favorite cove near the SD Yacht Club and BBQ on the boat. We were the only boat there and the weather was a perfect70 degrees as we dropped anchor. While I was up top watching the BBQ a couple in a Boston Whaler kept circling the boat. We started talking and discovered they loved the styling of the boat so much they wanted to know more than I could answer in 5 minutes before dinner wad ready. After dinner we watched a little TV in the PH before pulling up the anchor and heading home. We arrived just as the sun was setting. It was our first sunset cruise and we enjoyed every minute. Sometimes the unplanned trips turn out to be the best.
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Old 06-29-2017, 11:49 PM   #813
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Another Lesson Learned

So after a long two months the day arrived when the new Gig Harbor dingy was to arrive. I say "was" since day turned into early evening which was not a good omin. After guideing the driver who was trailing the boat from Washington to SD via cell phone to a small park with a beach near our marina he finally arrived at 7:30pm. The marine layer already moved in blocking out the sun resulting in less day light. I was pleasantly surprised to see the boat arrive on its own trailer and completely shrink wrap. She appeared to be in great condition and suffered no damage during the approximately 1,000 mile trip down highway 5.

While the shrink wrap was a great idea it turned out to be a daunting task removing it without any tools. We ended up using car keys and our hands to remove it. After a long 20-30 minutes we had enough removed that we could lift the boat off the trailer. The beach was about 30 yards plus another 20 yards to the water. I took the stern while the driver took the bow and we carried her to beach when I felt a sharp pain in my lower back. Ouch, this is not a good sign and things progressively got worse. After lowering the boat into the water I walked back to the car to pick up the our new 2.5 HP Yamaha and carried it to the boat. Installing it was easy as was tightening up the two threaded handles. So far so good but it now 8:00pm and getting darker. I started to doubt myself if I could make it home before total darkness. I wasted no time starting the engine and quickly headed home waving goodbye to the driver whom I didn't get to properly thank.

Within 5 minutes the engine died and I assumed it was out of gas since I knew the built in tank was very low. I grabbed the little portable tank and started to fill the small engine tank when a passerby stopped and asked if I needed assistance. I told them no but they hung around until I restarted the engine. As they left into near darkness I attempted to proceed around the rocks when the engine began to act up died. Countless attempts to restart her failed as the current pushed me towards the rocks.

Gotta run now but will continue tomorrow...
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Old 07-04-2017, 12:38 AM   #814
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So after a long two months the day arrived when the new Gig Harbor dingy was to arrive. I say "was" since day turned into early evening which was not a good omin. After guideing the driver who was trailing the boat from Washington to SD via cell phone to a small park with a beach near our marina he finally arrived at 7:30pm. The marine layer already moved in blocking out the sun resulting in less day light. I was pleasantly surprised to see the boat arrive on its own trailer and completely shrink wrap. She appeared to be in great condition and suffered no damage during the approximately 1,000 mile trip down highway 5.



While the shrink wrap was a great idea it turned out to be a daunting task removing it without any tools. We ended up using car keys and our hands to remove it. After a long 20-30 minutes we had enough removed that we could lift the boat off the trailer. The beach was about 30 yards plus another 20 yards to the water. I took the stern while the driver took the bow and we carried her to beach when I felt a sharp pain in my lower back. Ouch, this is not a good sign and things progressively got worse. After lowering the boat into the water I walked back to the car to pick up the our new 2.5 HP Yamaha and carried it to the boat. Installing it was easy as was tightening up the two threaded handles. So far so good but it now 8:00pm and getting darker. I started to doubt myself if I could make it home before total darkness. I wasted no time starting the engine and quickly headed home waving goodbye to the driver whom I didn't get to properly thank.



Within 5 minutes the engine died and I assumed it was out of gas since I knew the built in tank was very low. I grabbed the little portable tank and started to fill the small engine tank when a passerby stopped and asked if I needed assistance. I told them no but they hung around until I restarted the engine. As they left into near darkness I attempted to proceed around the rocks when the engine began to act up died. Countless attempts to restart her failed as the current pushed me towards the rocks.



Gotta run now but will continue tomorrow...


Greetings all. I've been quietly following along. Trawler dreaming and learning a lot. Hoping the rocks didn't end this thread?! Lol. Eagerly await hearing how this cliffhanger turns out.

Cheers,
Dave
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Old 07-04-2017, 11:34 AM   #815
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Dingy

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Greetings all. I've been quietly following along. Trawler dreaming and learning a lot. Hoping the rocks didn't end this thread?! Lol. Eagerly await hearing how this cliffhanger turns out.

Cheers,
Dave
Dave, thanks for your post. Now back to the adventure.

After numerous failed attempts to restart the engine I decided it was time to focus on plan "B". Problem was I didn't have a plan " B" since this was supposed to be a non-eventful late afternoon cruise with boaters around if I needed assistance. I had cell phones but no VHF radio which was my biggest mistake and something I knew better to have done. As the boat drifted quickly towards the rocks I thought I would unwrap the 7' oars and use them to stay clear until I realized the shrink wrap would prevent me from accomplishing this in time. All I could envision was my new boat awashed up on the rocks.

I immediately started to think the worst and double checked my life vest which I had been wearing the entire time. I figured if a wave hit me at the wrong time I would swim parrelle to the current towards the fuel dock about 20 yards away. I got lucky in that the water remained relatively calm and I was able to push off the rocks with my hands and the current started taking me away from the rocks once I reached jetty point. Within a couple of minutes I was within a few feet of the fuel dock. A little hand paddlein got me to the fuel dock and relative safety. Its strange how reaching something secure like the fuel dock brought a sense of security and safety.

It didn't long for me to realize that while I was relatively safe for the time being I was still stuck. The fuel dock was closed and the gate leading up to the parking lot was locked. All I could think was I might end up spending the night here.

More to follow....
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Old 07-04-2017, 12:08 PM   #816
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Dingy Continued

OK, so here I am on the fuel dock at night all alone. At this point I figured it was time to call Mary at home and tell her what occurred. Needless to say she was not happy and angry the engine died. I told her I would try to get a tow and keep her posted. It was after 9:00pm and the temperature was starting to drop a little. Fortunatly I dressed warm and ad my NY Yankees sweat shirt on. As luck wouldn't have it my West Marine card which I carry all the time was in Marys car after a recent visit to the store. Without a phone number for Vessel Assist I called information only to receive a number that was not working. A second attempt yielded the same results. How could this happen I thought to myself as I stood on the fuel dock in total darkness.

My next thought was to call the Harbor Patrol and see if they would contact Vessel Assist. Again I reached out to information only to obtain their office number which I called only to realise they were closed. The recording said to leave a message which I did and thought to myself these guys are going to think this must be a joke. At this point I really started to think I might end up spending the night.

More to follow....
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Old 07-04-2017, 01:37 PM   #817
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Wait, you have the oars in the boat with you. Why not unwrap them and row?
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Old 07-04-2017, 02:40 PM   #818
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Old 07-04-2017, 06:33 PM   #819
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Dingy Continued

Where were we, OK on the fuel dock at night. After the call to harbor patrol failed I figured it was time to call our boating neighbor (Jim) and request help. Fortunately Jim picked up his cellphone and I immediately explained my situation. Jim told me to sit tight and he would call the towing company he uses with his business and send them out. If they couldn't assist he would leave the restaurant he was at, drive to the marina and jump into his Boston Whaler to tow me in. I gave Jim my new cell phone number to provide to the towing company and told him I would sit tight. No sooner did we hang up, my cell phone died leaving me again strandard without confirmation a tow would be arriving.

At this point I figured it was time to start looking for someone aboard their boat for the night despite being at the end of the marina where the smaller boats were docked. By now it was 9:30pm and very quiet. As I walked along the dock I couldn't find a single boat with lights on.

More to follow......
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Old 07-04-2017, 08:02 PM   #820
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Sailor Blue would have resolved this dilemma long ago.
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