New Trawler Build: Introduction and First Question

[Art]

Adding to the outboard trend, a lot of Center Console builders have added Express models in the 35 to 45' size range and they are selling extremely well. The Cabin leaves a lot to be desired but it's a move upward and if they sell, you know you'll see larger. Up to 1600 hp and 60 mph.

That leads to: 55' cabin cruisers with 3,500 hp. in O/B's... 45 knot cruise at 0.20 nmpg! But, we're having fun now!

 

[BandB]

That leads to: 55' cabin cruisers with 3,500 hp. in O/B's... 45 knot cruise at 0.20 nmpg! But, we're having fun now!

You never know, but outboards are surprisingly efficient. Our 39' CC with triple Yamaha 300's gets over 1 nmpg at 45 knots, only .75 nmpg at 57 knots.

Now, as to trawlers, the TT 35 with 60 hp motors would certainly indicate the possibility of a 45' with perhaps twin 150's or so which would not get bad fuel economy.

Intrepid builds a 47' which with 4 x 350 hp Yamaha only gets around 0.6 nmpg at 45 knots. It's WOT is 50 knots. However, that would indicate some possibility if not after speed in using smaller and fewer outboards.

I think within a couple of years we'll see a larger, trawler type outboard.

 

[Art]

You never know, but outboards are surprisingly efficient. Our 39' CC with triple Yamaha 300's gets over 1 nmpg at 45 knots, only .75 nmpg at 57 knots.

Now, as to trawlers, the TT 35 with 60 hp motors would certainly indicate the possibility of a 45' with perhaps twin 150's or so which would not get bad fuel economy.

Intrepid builds a 47' which with 4 x 350 hp Yamaha only gets around 0.6 nmpg at 45 knots. It's WOT is 50 knots. However, that would indicate some possibility if not after speed in using smaller and fewer outboards.

I think within a couple of years we'll see a larger, trawler type outboard.

Yes! I well understand the efficiency and ease of care/use that o/b's provide. I've owned several over the decades. Currently, our tow behind 15' frp Crestliner, comfortably seating 4 with 50 hp Johnson o/b, runabout is quick [WOT 40 nmph with just me] and a gentle 25 knot cruise with two while getting a miserly 20 nmpg. We often use it to zip back to marinas for supplies while anchored out as well as to take jaunts gunkholeing or visiting friends or dining at restaurants. With Linda and I we can easily increase our Crestliner's speed above 25 knots into the low to mid 30's and soon accomplish visits 60 + miles away from our Tollycraft.

I too feel that there will be an increase in larger sized o/b powered boats.

 

[Bruce B]

I personally would be much more interested in an outboard powered trawler if diesel outboards were available.
I know it isn't going to happen but that is what it would take for me.
Between ethanol and the general explosiveness of gasoline, I'm guessing that diesel inboards have some appeal left.
Of course, we did specify a propane stove...!
Bruce

 

[DavidM]

I think within a couple of years we'll see a larger, trawler type outboard.

The problem is that a 40' trawler will weigh lots, lots more than the TT 35. MJM who builds light weight, narrow beam, fuel efficient downeast style cruisers says that their 40Z weighs 19,000 lbs(three times the TT 35) and has twin 370 hp Volvos which will push it to 30+ kts. Well maybe you don't need 740 hp, but you probably will need at least half of that to go 20 kts at wot and maybe 250 to cruise in the mid teens.

With a diesel, pulling 250 hp will use 12.5 gph and a gasser will use 21 gph. That is about .75 NM/gal for the gasser.

Also when you are spending almost a half million for a 40' boat, the capital costs and space penalty of the diesel becomes less important. Engine longevity and cruising range becomes more important.

So maybe you will see outboards in express cruiser type designs which are used differently than trawlers, but I doubt that you will see them in what we consider trawlers.

David

 

[Miz Trom]

Interesting discussion concerning outboards, speed, fuel economy and usage. When I was much younger, I loved fast boats, but back then a fast boat to me was 32 knots. At my age now (60), I think I would be terrified in a CC (Center Console) of any size traveling at 50 knots. And I am certain my knees and back could not take the pounding. This is NOT intended to be disrespectful in any way of TF members who love their go-fast boats. They are just not my cup of tea.

The TT35's design integrates light weight and a planing hull with low hp outboards for many reasons, with fuel economy and low draft the priorities. I think this very reasonably-priced boat will occupy a strong niche market for middle-class folks looking for longer traveling range than the camper boats offer, or even the the pontoon-houseboat styles offer.

In other words, decent-sized interior living space combined with range, handling, stability and low maintenance. To me, the TT35 is the next evolution of the Rosborough, C-Dory, Nimble Nomad and Adventurecraft lines of trailerable camper boats, taking some of those concepts to the next level of liveability and range.

Because this boat suits us perfectly, I happen to believe that the designer, Ken Fickett, is a genius. But, as this noisy and often hilarious forum makes clear, the features we want in our boat are not the same features that many other members give a fig about. But it is delightful to see such interest in the boat.

Regards from St. Petersburg, Florida,
Pea
Photos: Rosborough 24', C-Dory 25', Nimble Nomad 25', Adventurecraft 28.5', Great Harbour TT35 36'+, and Pontoon Houseboat length unknown

 

[BandB]

Houseboats slipped my mind. A lot of 40-50' houseboats powered by relatively small outboards. Even looking at some 100' houseboats powered by I/O's and they could easily be replaced with outboards. A 100' Fantasy, for example, with a 440 hp Mercruiser could be powered by twin outboards. Catamaran Cruisers uses outboards on 50' houseboats. I found a 58' Stardust with a single 90 hp engine.

I'm not suggesting outboards are going to take over the trawler market, but I do believe we'll see them expand into larger size trawler like boats. Think of any of the boats powered with 400 or less hp and how much space you'd pick up by eliminating the inboard engines. Space for another cabin.

 

[Nomad Willy]

It's easy to exceed the fuel efficiency of a typical 35 or 40' trawler. All one needs to do is build an OB that's half the weight. With half the weight it's equal and anything less would be "better fuel economy than a trawler". But then it would'nt be a trawler .. for what ever that's worth. Takes more than a trawler-like cabin to be a trawler. But better economy than a trawler is easy to come by ... no great feat.

With the wide appart outboards in quartering stern seas the possibilities of getting a prop out of the water should be quite high. But much more likely to happen is a prop out of the water in turns. Won't take much of a banking turn to bring that about. With quartering stern seas it would be even more likely. Then factor in some seas. I've built a boat more strange than the GH and anytime it's done it's discovered again why most boats are as they are. So I'm think'in a boat more like a trimaran w engine on CL will/would be better.

 

[BandB]

It's easy to exceed the fuel efficiency of a typical 35 or 40' trawler. All one needs to do is build an OB that's half the weight. With half the weight it's equal and anything less would be "better fuel economy than a trawler". But then it would'nt be a trawler .. for what ever that's worth. Takes more than a trawler-like cabin to be a trawler. But better economy than a trawler is easy to come by ... no great feat.

With the wide appart outboards in quartering stern seas the possibilities of getting a prop out of the water should be quite high. But much more likely to happen is a prop out of the water in turns. Won't take much of a banking turn to bring that about. With quartering stern seas it would be even more likely. Then factor in some seas. I've built a boat more strange than the GH and anytime it's done it's discovered again why most boats are as they are. So I'm think'in a boat more like a trimaran w engine on CL will/would be better.

Some of the houseboats are, in effect, trimarans, with three sets of pontoon tubes.

 

[Art]

There is a BIG difference between "house boat" and seaworthy, catamaran and/or a trimaran ME designed boat.... be they for pleasure or commercial use. Whereas, most house boats are a landlubber designed mobile home on top of pontoons. Fine for small lakes and very calm interior water-ways... not at all meant for use on big bays, coastal cruising or God Forbid open ocean waters.


That said: There are a few "house boats" factory designed that could withstand very limited sea conditions... but, not with me aboard! LOL


Sooo - I don't feel a "house boat" is a real boat... but rather it is a real floating house with the word boat thrown in for descriptive purposes [i.e. so people would not get confused if you called it simply a floating pontoon house. Therefore, I do not feel that floating houses are at all a true representation of marine boat use for outboards or any other type of energized propulsion.

House boats are fine in the correct conditions... roomy as heck too!!

 

[FlyWright]

We see all types here on the CA Delta. Rental houseboats to 40 ft or more are frequently twin OB driven. Some with boat hulls, some on tubes, all shapes and sizes. OB motors have been driving big boats for decades. I like the fact that they are gaining a foothold in the traditional trawler and trailer trawler markets.

Question of the Day...
I know in my boat, I'm "trawler trash". If I buy a TT35, am I "trailer trawler trash"?

 

[BandB]

There is a BIG difference between "house boat" and seaworthy, catamaran and/or a trimaran ME designed boat....

No argument that. It only indicates using outboards on a larger boat isn't all that far fetched.

 

[BandB]

From 1983 to 2012 I only owned inboard-outboard boats. It's been interesting to watch their market share shrink significantly every year. Other propulsion slowly recovered from the recession and started increasing sales, while inboard outboards lagged behind and at the present time they're shrinking each year.

Outboards, Pods, and Inboards pushing them aside.

 

[Nomad Willy]

No argument that. It only indicates using outboards on a larger boat isn't all that far fetched.

Indeed not since three OB's can easily reach 1000hp. But the propellers are in the wrong place. Too shallow and too far aft. OB cruisers fine. OB trawlers not so much.

Personally I prefer OB's to inboards.

 

[Art]

From 1983 to 2012 I only owned inboard-outboard boats. It's been interesting to watch their market share shrink significantly every year. Other propulsion slowly recovered from the recession and started increasing sales, while inboard outboards lagged behind and at the present time they're shrinking each year.

Outboards, Pods, and Inboards pushing them aside.

I [as most] have pet peeves, i.e. ingrained decisions/choices, regarding many items about a boat. For several reasons... One of them is that I do not want to own an I/O power train.

 

[Peter B]

I personally would be much more interested in an outboard powered trawler if diesel outboards were available.
I know it isn't going to happen but that is what it would take for me.
Between ethanol and the general explosiveness of gasoline, I'm guessing that diesel inboards have some appeal left.
Of course, we did specify a propane stove...!
Bruce

It has happened Bruce...

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Diesel+outboard+motors&qpvt=Diesel+outboard+motors&qpvt=Diesel+outboard+motors&qpvt=Diesel+outboard+motors&FORM=IGRE

 

[BruceK]

I [as most] have pet peeves... One of them is that I do not want to own an I/O power train.

One reason they are out of favor: many owners lost the battle to keep the water out of the mechanical working parts. In loose terms, someone came up with the idea of mounting the drive system underwater, using rubber seals and bellows to keep the water out. It just needs stating to see how unwise it is. And then there`s the shell and other marine growth. I see these things out of the water being worked on, they must be a mechanics nightmare, as well as a great source of income.
Sure shafts, props and glands will give issues from time to time,but not the ongoing "elements vs I/O" battle the elements usually win.

 

[Art]

One reason they are out of favor: many owners lost the battle to keep the water out of the mechanical working parts. In loose terms, someone came up with the idea of mounting the drive system underwater, using rubber seals and bellows to keep the water out. It just needs stating to see how unwise it is. And then there`s the shell and other marine growth. I see these things out of the water being worked on, they must be a mechanics nightmare, as well as a great source of income.
Sure shafts, props and glands will give issues from time to time,but not the ongoing "elements vs I/O" battle the elements usually win.

Yes, Yes - That and more!!

 

[Bruce B]

It has happened Bruce...

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Diesel+outboard+motors&qpvt=Diesel+outboard+motors&qpvt=Diesel+outboard+motors&qpvt=Diesel+outboard+motors&FORM=IGRE

Not here in the USA... too bad for us!
Bruce

 

[CWO KPM]

Pet Peeves.
No gasoline on any boat I might sleep on. The Grady White is a 150 OB and the 3.5 merc on the Achilles on the Davit only carries a quart, and it hangs on the back.

 

[BandB]

I [as most] have pet peeves, i.e. ingrained decisions/choices, regarding many items about a boat. For several reasons... One of them is that I do not want to own an I/O power train.

That was all there was in runabouts for the lake with the hp and performance and size boats. It's changed a bit now.

 

[Donsan]

Great Harbour has just published their TT35 test report. They also indicate they already have 7 orders and hull two is coming out of the molds. I continue to be impressed but mindful that this is manufacturer provided data.

TT35 Test Report - Great Harbour Trawlers

 

[Scratchnsaw]

Great Harbour has just published their TT35 test report. They also indicate they already have 7 orders and hull two is coming out of the molds. I continue to be impressed but mindful that this is manufacturer provided data.

TT35 Test Report - Great Harbour Trawlers

Interesting project and results.. There is room for the outboard cruisers. But the mid range sizes in the 30 feet range certainly yields itself to an inboard diesel, even with a tunnel for shallow water cruising if that's your desire. The maintainance for twin outboards and the costs in the purchase does not yield itself to being ideal, even with the minimal loss of room inside for the engine box for that size.

 

[Plane Nauti]

Looking forward to new pics posted1

 

[HenryD]

I had an opportunity to visit Mirage last week and see hull number 1 coming along. Hull number 2 is in the works also. It is great to see the progress and the activity at Mirage.

 

[Panhandler]

Any updates on the build? Love the boat and can't wait to see the finished product! Thanks for sharing

 

[Donsan]

Any updates on the build? Love the boat and can't wait to see the finished product! Thanks for sharing

You might want to check the Great Harbour Trawlers Facebook page. They periodically post updates there and the last was on March 8th. Fuel consumption of 3.2gph at 15mph was mentioned.

 

[Miz Trom]

Ground tackle, steps to bow, new trailer

Latest photo

 

[Plane Nauti]

Bump....

Any new pics Miz Trom?

Keith

 

[Donsan]

Bump....

Any new pics Miz Trom?

8 new pics were added on Facebook less than a week ago. Most of them were of the interior. It is still looking a little Spartan but seems to be coming along.

Due to the location of the head, it looks like this boat is begging for a rear view camera. Miz Trom is having a flybridge put on so it may not be an issue to her.