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Old 06-13-2014, 11:18 AM   #21
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Quick!!..get your money back and run the other way. This sounds like a VERY bad deal.
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Old 06-13-2014, 11:59 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Seyfer2 View Post
"If Marine Trader, there could be an issue too of whether duty on US import has been paid"

"That is more of a state issue, and many states will impose a tax"

Don't think Us imports or state taxes apply in France..really not sure

And would almost swear that A hatt and a Hi star are two dif boats, But I have been wrong before
Overlooked the France part. Hi Star is from Activa Marine. I don't know how the Hatteras Hi Star information came to the OP. Thought maybe Hi Star some model I'd never heard of but you're right, now we have three builders in play. Confusion between Hi Star and Marine Trader easier to understand. Now you're possibly into one brand built at another's yard. Perhaps started at one, finished by another.

What made you say it was a Hatteras Hi Star? How was that opinion formed?

Some information:

Marine Trading International (MTI) known for its line of Taiwan-built trawlers. The company began operations in 1968 and has imported over 3,000 boats, more by far than any other importer in the country. Marine Trader models came from many different Taiwan (and other) manufacturers over the years. The Hull ID number will alert a competent Yacht Broker to the manufacturer.

So if you tossed Hatteras out of the picture, having a Marine Trader built by the Activa Marine (Hi Star) boatyard is possible.
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Old 06-13-2014, 12:16 PM   #23
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* tidy boat with 3 previous owners, all elderly, 2 german and 1 english
too bad about the englishman
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Old 06-13-2014, 07:52 PM   #24
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hi again, well the reason i thought it was a trader 47 is because that's what the seller called it and that's what it was called on it's UK ssr register, and me being a bit of a newbie i didn't give it a second thought, till i saw this artwork on the port side, then the name HiStar on the engine room name plate, then went online and saw what she really is. i attach pics. the thing is the surveyor was a lazy bastard as he called it a Marine Trader 50 on his report. coincidences play with an active imagination e.g. the boat has NO paper work or recipes or invoices or anything anywhere, and she wasn't tidy. who has a boat for 8-9 years, isn't too tidy but has left NO paper work in a any drawer, cupboard, engine room etc etc? the guy i bought it from has had it 8-9 years (6 years independently verified) but about 6 years ago had a very similar to look at boat that wasn't as good (people "think" it was a Trader) who's name was the same as this one but for a "t" on the end.one day that had disappeared "sold" to holland and is never seen again. didn't they use to do that scam with race horses? to be honest…… and please don't take this the wrong way, i'm scared to give anyone the h.i.n. in case it is hot and i lose it. the 6 digit string from the h.i.n. plate (screwed to the door step just inside the engine room) are what has been used as the h.i.n. on the uk ssr records. do i just kick back and pour another wine or…………..
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Old 06-13-2014, 08:00 PM   #25
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and please don't take this the wrong way, i'm scared to give anyone the h.i.n. in case it is hot and i lose it. the 6 digit string from the h.i.n. plate
HIN's are 12 characters not six.

You'll feel much worse if you lose it after you pay for it. That has happened twice to boats I have surveyed.
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Old 06-13-2014, 08:16 PM   #26
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hi again, well the reason i thought it was a trader 47 is because that's what the seller called it and that's what it was called on it's UK ssr register, and me being a bit of a newbie i didn't give it a second thought, till i saw this artwork on the port side, then the name HiStar on the engine room name plate, then went online and saw what she really is. i attach pics. the thing is the surveyor was a lazy bastard as he called it a Marine Trader 50 on his report. coincidences play with an active imagination e.g. the boat has NO paper work or recipes or invoices or anything anywhere, and she wasn't tidy. who has a boat for 8-9 years, isn't too tidy but has left NO paper work in a any drawer, cupboard, engine room etc etc? the guy i bought it from has had it 8-9 years (6 years independently verified) but about 6 years ago had a very similar to look at boat that wasn't as good (people "think" it was a Trader) who's name was the same as this one but for a "t" on the end.one day that had disappeared "sold" to holland and is never seen again. didn't they use to do that scam with race horses? to be honest…… and please don't take this the wrong way, i'm scared to give anyone the h.i.n. in case it is hot and i lose it. the 6 digit string from the h.i.n. plate (screwed to the door step just inside the engine room) are what has been used as the h.i.n. on the uk ssr records. do i just kick back and pour another wine or…………..
I don't understand at all. Surely you haven't bought it? If not, how would you lose it? You find out it's stolen so don't buy it. Surely you wouldn't want to buy a stolen boat. Would you? And where in the world did Hatteras come from in your earlier post if the name plate says HiStar?

You're playing with fire.
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:02 PM   #27
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Now my paranoia gland is pumping and i'm thinking has she been stolen? Her HIN is still in the engine room but it's been removed from the rear of the boat and she's registered in a country she's never been to. The previous "owner" (yes i bought it on the strength of the survey and a legal agreement) is now having trouble producing the transaction history i need to prove tax has been paid somewhere/anywhere, or i can be up for 10-12% of her worth if i decide to stop in a country i really like for more than 6 months.
a smart man would probably keep his head down, say nothing and have a quiet life but i'm worried one day as i'm filling up somewhere, someone will tap me on the shoulder. any ideas please?!?
Sounds to me like he paid for the boat already.
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:20 PM   #28
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Sounds to me like he paid for the boat already.
Guess I was just reading this morning he was talking about a survey and things not yet checked plus some issues. Then he's talking like he proceeded with the deal in spite of the issues and questions.
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:57 PM   #29
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"I bought it" seems fairly conclusive, though some parts of the story, like about a previous boat,I`m not sure I understood. The concerns are apparently hindsight buyers remorse(with pike, to use a diving term). The time to establish good seller`s title is between agreement and settlement. Here, if the seller had no title there is a "failure of consideration", you`d be entitled to your $ back.IF you could extract it from the seller (has he disappeared?). And the true owner would be entitled to retake possession, however many hands the boat has been through. I suggest you get local legal advice, then you`ll know the score. Staying quiet and doing nothing may well be an option if you`ve paid, can`t establish title and the seller has disappeared.
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Old 06-13-2014, 11:07 PM   #30
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... Staying quiet and doing nothing may well be an option if you`ve paid, can`t establish title and the seller has disappeared.
Does that work when registering/documenting the boat? Basic background inquiery would determine if the boat was stolen, but I have no information on the competency of the governments/bureaucracies involved.
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Old 06-14-2014, 12:34 AM   #31
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Does that work when registering/documenting the boat? Basic background inquiery would determine if the boat was stolen, but I have no information on the competency of the governments/bureaucracies involved.
Probably not, just the last desperate fallback option. It sounds like the seller is around,difficulty getting him to produce registration papers suggests contact. No idea on French registration procedures either. Some comfort knowing the seller had it some years and no one repossessed it.I remember each seller or broker of boats I owned, this seller should too.
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Old 06-14-2014, 09:59 AM   #32
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Boat thieves, like auto thieves or any others know how and where to move the boat. They've learned long ago the easy places to register or re-title. Decades ago Chattanooga, TN was the chop shop capital of the country as it bordered on three other states and Alabama did no checking of serial numbers or anything else. They know how to launder what they take.

Now, I'm not saying this boat is stolen. Could be a lot of incompetence over the years. The Marine Trader is not necessarily wrong as they could well have had Hi Star build some boats for them. I am saying that getting proper papers is a key to any purchase however and until they were in my hand, I'd never pay.

This just seems like it was a very rushed transaction. Here, I'll sell it cheap, just have to do it now, kind of thing. And suddenly not the proper documents. I don't know if the buyer has what he needs to register it in his country or not.

Now think back to the problems a few months ago in Mexico. While their execution of their plan was horrible, this is exactly the type boat they were looking for. Missing or non matching HIN. I would strongly advise the purchaser to get all the papers in order. If not, he will always risk problems in some country where customs and immigration decides to get serious and check everything. It won't be for the boat being stolen, but for it not being properly documented.
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Old 06-15-2014, 07:51 PM   #33
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hi all, good advice to a man, and yes i have bought it (paid 3/4), except there is no real proof of ownership of a uk registered vessel, no onwnership papers as in a car. people use the ssr registration certificate (attached in case you haven't seen one - not the same boat, people etc) but that says in bold print that "this certificate is not proof of legal onwership". most everybody i know in the uk takes the ssr cert and their bill of sale as proof of onweship, and I guess without numbers written in secret places how's anyone going to prove you a liar?

i think i might owe everyone (and the seller) an apology, as despite all the wierd omens and coincidences it looks like it is a Marine Traders ltd out of Southapmton made boat! they made so many variations on a theme it gets very confusing, but this might well be a Trader 53 Histar Sundeck. There wasn't too many with the Histar logo, ones made for Mediterranean orders or so i've been lead to believe. The dipping side hand rail and rear deck, roof mounted davit and dinghy etc are all pointers.
so things can look bad, and i'm not breathing easy until Marine Traders answers my email, but it looks a helluva lot better than it did a few days ago.
thanks for everyones inpu and advice and i'll post the final outcome.
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Old 06-15-2014, 08:04 PM   #34
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Jules, smart move retaining 25% of the price. That should ensure the seller puts some effort into perfecting title. If it doesn`t, there may well be an issue.
Are you happy with the boat itself?
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Old 07-04-2014, 06:40 PM   #35
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hi, profuse apologies for not getting back sooner, been squezing in visiting friends between amateur detective work. update on the boat is:

1) it appears to have been a taiwan/pae trader build
2) h.i.n. O.N.706533 R.T.23 90/100
3) 1989 build, launched 1990
4) brought to europe 2004, don't know what, if anything happened before that
5) she was called "my way" and brought into belgium
6) bought by a german 2005-6, name changed to "Anyway"
7) lying in gibraltar not moving for a while
8) sold by his wife when he was jailed for tax fraud
9) new uk owner living in spain buys and changes name back to "My Way"
10) uk ssr register won't accept another boat called "My Way" so he tries to name it after an older/smaller boat he has named "Alacan" but they won't accept a double up
11) so he renames the other boat "Alacant", sells it to a guy in holland and names the trader "Alacan"

- the papers etc going back to 2004 show the number 706533 no matter what name it had so that's good (belgium started the habit of dropping off the letters and only using numbers which germany, france and the uk have continued)

- long story short i got it cheap and as she is a 25 year old boat that has had nothing cosmetic done to her and is in ad need of a face lift.
- the survey showed she is structurally sound so i was perpared for some repair work........ and i wasn't wrong it cost me €3500 to get her back in the water, safe and up to spec the insurance company was happy with. it didn't have to be that much e.g. stern tube seals replaced with water flushed lip seals (i was a service manager for a large pump compny for years and hate packed seals!!!) but as it's our home i wanted to make it fit and forget (haha).
- i figure to get her up to what we want it'll be another €5-10,000 (new kitchen, paint etc etc) but that's ok as we spent our "house money" on her and love being on her so we want to make her our home.

- i'll change my attention to the fuel consumption one day, maybe a 30% hydrogen system will be the answer, but in the meantime i figure 1500 rpm should keep the cost down, and 7.5 knots isn't so bad when your not in a hurry.

- thank you all for your help and input and if i can ever be of any help/use to anyone here please ask.

- i was a product developer/enginner before i got lazy, with gas and electrical experience consulting to large and small companies on run-of-the-mill and cutting edge stuff so you never know what i might be useful for.
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