Totally dissed by broker

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Any sales position can attract sleeze bags and jerks. Most sales positions take very little education or training to get into including selling yachts. Fill out a form, pay your money and you are a sale person. A broker needs two years experience, but easy to get. Some states are different but pretty much the same. Very similar to a real estate sales or brokers license.

Because it's so easy to get, there's a lot of part time, non qualified and lousy sales people that get into the business.

Back in the 80s and 90s when I was buying a lot of houses, we had these sales people that we called "fat ass cadillac" realtors. They were housewives that got the kids out of the house and got a part time job selling real estate to get out of the husbands hair. They didn't know the difference between a brick and a front door. But because they lived in a house, they were now "experts". We see similar in the boating world. And there's a ton of brokers that have evolved from a different career to sell boats or houses in retirement for something to do. And there's a ton of folks that couldn't get a job anywhere so they decide to sell boats.

There's a reason why brokers and salespeople get a bad rap. It's because it's true. Just look at all the dissatisfied people that have dealt with them.

Granted, there are exceptions and the challenge for a buyer (and a seller) is to find the jewels in the brokerage business. And that CAN be frustrating.

I totally agree that a good buyers broker is worth their weight in gold for the buyer, especially if the selling broker is a jerk.

And, I'd bet that over 50% of the brokers/salespeople out there aint worth the time of day. (It's higher than that for me).

I'm currently selling my 28ft runabout. Talked to a broker from POP Yachts, supposedly the largest brokerage in the world. The guy is a jerk, totally inflexible and everything has to be done his way and I have no say so. Don't think we'll do much business. In the past, I've talked to other POP Yacht brokers and they have been great.... go figure.

As for "dissing" the ladies, yes that happens, and probably way more than dissing the guys. And that's a shame. However, generally the guy buys the boat, does the negotiations, picks out the boat, and most likely pays for it. (I do) So, the guys get the reputation of being the boat buyer in the family and unfortunately the lady is often looked at as a dummy that know nothing, and the only thing she cares about is how pretty the boat it. So that's the way the broker approaches it.

Just food for thought.

The fact you're considering the sham known as Pop Yachts says more than enough about your selection and problems. And you bought their line of largest brokerage in the world. Only have most listings because they copy everyone else's. Run.

As to states being very much the same, not at all. Only two states require any sort of licensing of brokers, Florida and California. The other states require nothing.

I think this thread and the brokers recommended here shows there are plenty of excellent brokers.

As to backgrounds and experience, you can go on brokerage sites and quickly see that in many cases. Most of the brokers in South Florida have been active in boating for years, if not decades.
 
See bold face....


The fact you're considering the sham known as Pop Yachts says more than enough about your selection and problems. And you bought their line of largest brokerage in the world. Only have most listings because they copy everyone else's. Run.

Good point. Actually, I had not considered them, my partner did.

As to states being very much the same, not at all. Only two states require any sort of licensing of brokers, Florida and California. The other states require nothing.

Didn't know that,

I think this thread and the brokers recommended here shows there are plenty of excellent brokers.

Totally agree, lots of good ones, but lots of bad ones, too.

As to backgrounds and experience, you can go on brokerage sites and quickly see that in many cases. Most of the brokers in South Florida have been active in boating for years, if not decades.
That's good for you South Florida folks.
 
Sorry I'm a bit late in joining this thread. I only check in on TF occassionally, so my apologies for being remiss on both counts. I'm proud to see so many of my colleagues being recommended here.

I am posting just to say I am humbled by so many owners mentioning my name. Thank you ever so much for thinking highly enough of me to recommend me to your cruising friends.

Judy
:)
 
Sorry I'm a bit late in joining this thread. I only check in on TF occassionally, so my apologies for being remiss on both counts. I'm proud to see so many of my colleagues being recommended here.

I am posting just to say I am humbled by so many owners mentioning my name. Thank you ever so much for thinking highly enough of me to recommend me to your cruising friends.

Judy
:)

Wifey B: Let's turn this around a moment, Judy. Do you find male buyers sometimes distrusting of your knowledge and experience because you're a woman? Do you think you find it any easier to connect with the women because you're a woman?

Clearly I'm odd but when it comes to being a broker, I just think of you as a knowledgeable, experienced broker and male or female never comes into it. When it comes to you as a person, I think of you as an incredible mom, but I think of those sides of you totally separate. :D
 
Thanks, B&B!! Your kind words are very much appreciated! I have sold over 200 trawlers and I have been treated respectfully and professionally by almost every single client on both sides and whether they are the Captain or the Admiral. I treat men and women equally and find that they do so whether in return or because the trawler world is just full of special people.

I think women in general tend to be more caring, more interested in educating, and more patient and nurturing and the recipient of that is always appreciative whether male or female. I know, that was a broad generalization, but clients appreciate those extra qualities especially when dealing not with just a large financial purchase, but also something that is a significant part of their lives. Making the right decision on a boat has a major effect on their daily life. That's a responsibility to be taken seriously.
 
Thanks, B&B!! Your kind words are very much appreciated! I have sold over 200 trawlers and I have been treated respectfully and professionally by almost every single client on both sides and whether they are the Captain or the Admiral. I treat men and women equally and find that they do so whether in return or because the trawler world is just full of special people.

I think women in general tend to be more caring, more interested in educating, and more patient and nurturing and the recipient of that is always appreciative whether male or female. I know, that was a broad generalization, but clients appreciate those extra qualities especially when dealing not with just a large financial purchase, but also something that is a significant part of their lives. Making the right decision on a boat has a major effect on their daily life. That's a responsibility to be taken seriously.

Wifey B: Funny, the point you make reminds me of someone recently that a buyer complained about and their comment was "She knows everything about the boat and it's hull and it's performance and it's engines, but she really doesn't grasp what it's like to live on it or any boat for months at a time." Yes, they were referring to a female salesperson, but a young one who boated, but never long periods of time cruising. It does impact your life in far more ways than how the boat runs. It's a mode of transportation and a home. :)
 
I wonder if any guys have been "dissed' by a female broker?
That one gender would "diss" another, in boat broking/buying/selling seems odd. Surely a brokers desire to turn a $ is paramount,getting involved in some gender war/dispute/bias seems self defeating bizarre,and contrary to the main aim of doing a deal to make a $. Why would a broker, or a number of them, depart from that? It makes no sense.


Of course it makes no sense to many because it is monetarily self-defeating. However, it is apparently more important to some male salesmen to establish dominance over a would-be woman customer than to make the sale. I've had it happen with two different Curtis-Stokes brokers in the past 20 hours + once this afternoon with a broker in Texas who I'd told I was willing to buy a plane ticket to view his offering if he just got me a little more info. I'm knowledgeable, experienced & definitely in the market, as well as determined that none of those guys makes a penny from me. BTW I've recently had the same experience trying to purchase stoves for my house & a rental--it wasn't just rudeness I encountered, but like my yacht broker experience, a great deal of ignorance about the products.
 
Of course it makes no sense to many because it is monetarily self-defeating. However, it is apparently more important to some male salesmen to establish dominance over a would-be woman customer than to make the sale. I've had it happen with two different Curtis-Stokes brokers in the past 20 hours + once this afternoon with a broker in Texas who I'd told I was willing to buy a plane ticket to view his offering if he just got me a little more info. I'm knowledgeable, experienced & definitely in the market, as well as determined that none of those guys makes a penny from me. BTW I've recently had the same experience trying to purchase stoves for my house & a rental--it wasn't just rudeness I encountered, but like my yacht broker experience, a great deal of ignorance about the products.

There are definitely sales people in all fields who prejudge based on stereotypes they've bought into. They don't grasp that it's financially a mistake. They're so convinced their preconceptions are valid. You can only imagine how often we encounter it as the top 6 executives in our business are female and 20 of the top 22 are female.

I will say this. While there are still inequities in many places and some still hold their old views, businesses are far more accustomed to seeing female executives, including CEO's, than they were 20 years ago and that's just due to seeing more, especially some very high profile CEO's. It's like education where 76% of K-12 educators are female but only 23% of superintendents are. However, 20 years ago 84% of K-12 educators were female and only 6% of superintendents were.

There are a lot of brokers out there. I believe in finding a buyer's broker you like and trust. Same on property. For whatever reason someone doesn't meet your needs, there's always someone else. The one who chooses to not work with you is the real loser.
 
There are definitely sales people in all fields who prejudge based on stereotypes they've bought into. They don't grasp that it's financially a mistake. They're so convinced their preconceptions are valid. You can only imagine how often we encounter it as the top 6 executives in our business are female and 20 of the top 22 are female. . . . I will say this. While there are still inequities in many places and some still hold their old views, businesses are far more accustomed to seeing female executives, including CEO's, than they were 20 years ago and that's just due to seeing more, especially some very high profile CEO's. For whatever reason someone doesn't meet your needs, there's always someone else. The one who chooses to not work with you is the real loser.

Yes, women have made many advances since I was starting out, yet I really didn't see any difference between my encounters today & the time c. 1970 I ventured onto a car lot to buy a pickup truck & failed until I sent a husband in my place. Yes, there are other brokers, but I'm not sure I agree today's three brokers are the real losers. Even though I've cast a wide geographic net, there aren't that many boats out there that meet both my criteria & wallet, & I've wasted much more of my time than theirs. There are also boat owners in two states who've lost an opportunity to show, & maybe sell.
 
Yes, women have made many advances since I was starting out, yet I really didn't see any difference between my encounters today & the time c. 1970 I ventured onto a car lot to buy a pickup truck & failed until I sent a husband in my place. Yes, there are other brokers, but I'm not sure I agree today's three brokers are the real losers. Even though I've cast a wide geographic net, there aren't that many boats out there that meet both my criteria & wallet, & I've wasted much more of my time than theirs. There are also boat owners in two states who've lost an opportunity to show, & maybe sell.

You've been advised repeatedly to find a buyer's broker. Find one you like and trust and then you won't have to deal with all these seller brokers.
 
You've been advised repeatedly to find a buyer's broker. Find one you like and trust and then you won't have to deal with all these seller brokers.


Repeatedly? Perhaps you have me confused with another poster.
 
Repeatedly? Perhaps you have me confused with another poster.

Perhaps, as that's something we've often suggested. Just contacting the listing brokers is generally a very frustrating way to go. They don't take random callers seriously a lot of the time.
 
BandB;770737...They don't take random callers seriously a lot of the time.[/QUOTE said:
Hey, B, a few comments on this. I don't think someone making a phone call on a yacht is a random buyer (I hate the term "tire-kicker.") Particularly someone calling about a trawler usually has a fair amount of interest in getting information whether on a particular vessel or questions in general. That first phone call is what holds the potential for a relationship.

What is helpful is when a caller says that s/he is just at the beginning stage or if they say "when the house sells, kids graduate college," etc. That lets the salesperson prioritize the time and energy spent versus more pressing clients who are further along in the purchasing stage at that particular time.

Most brokers not specializing in trawlers cannot understand someone who is not an immediate or fairly immediate buyer. And that broker is not one who is experienced enough in trawlers to be helping a newbie. I claim that trawler clients buy at the speed they cruise. The first call is the most important one and part of sales is being able to filter them.

Judy
 
Hey, B, a few comments on this. I don't think someone making a phone call on a yacht is a random buyer (I hate the term "tire-kicker.") Particularly someone calling about a trawler usually has a fair amount of interest in getting information whether on a particular vessel or questions in general. That first phone call is what holds the potential for a relationship.

What is helpful is when a caller says that s/he is just at the beginning stage or if they say "when the house sells, kids graduate college," etc. That lets the salesperson prioritize the time and energy spent versus more pressing clients who are further along in the purchasing stage at that particular time.

Most brokers not specializing in trawlers cannot understand someone who is not an immediate or fairly immediate buyer. And that broker is not one who is experienced enough in trawlers to be helping a newbie. I claim that trawler clients buy at the speed they cruise. The first call is the most important one and part of sales is being able to filter them.

Judy

Judy, perhaps also recognize that you're not most brokers. Also, even with you if the call doesn't involve two way communication your ability to assist is limited. You asked a question here, "what are your parameters?" Seems basic, but there are callers who just ask about a boat and don't share information so that you can ascertain whether that might be the right boat for them or not. That information also tells you what effort to expend and how to best expend that effort.

That first call does hold the potential but only if it's a productive call. Also, many won't even call today, but just email and are hesitant to give you their number.

Now, it goes both ways too. I think potential buyers should interview brokers. If they can't see them face to face, at least schedule a long phone call. Check on reputation but more than that see what the fit is. That fit includes knowledge, experience, and even personality. There are very successful brokers that if you told me I had to talk to for 30 minutes, I'd call it inhumane punishment. I know they're more interested in talking about their greatness than learning my needs. I look for someone who answers my questions but also asks me the right questions. A simple question would be what brands of trawlers have you sold and you'd overwhelm a caller with the answer to that. It would include brands they'd never heard of. Some I've heard of only because of you. Then in some brands, you'd shock them as you'd know the history of every boat the builder ever produced.

I do believe in establishing relationships. That's a two way street. There's a rule in selling stocks and investments, "Know your customer." Well, a boat broker can't serve a customer well without knowing them either. Ironically, my wife and I know you well enough to know your knowledge of trawlers and the trawler market is incredible as is your overall experience and we know enough beyond that to know we personally like you and could work with you. However, you know enough about us to know we'd never be a customer for a trawler and we buy only new. So not an avenue for doing business together. However, I know enough to recommend you. One other comment, all brokers in a single brokerage are not created equal. I've seen in this thread and others a couple recommended in a specific brokerage while I've also seen very unpleasant dealings with other brokers in that same brokerage.

By comparison, there's one broker I've communicated with at great length and he's sought my opinion even while developing a line. He also knows my boat preferences. However, he's in business with some less trustful people and his response to that is they're no worse than any others in the industry. I don't know if he honestly believes that or says it just to justify himself. I just know that he finds it acceptable and I'd never consider him as my broker. I don't personally dislike him, just wouldn't do business with him. I could never gather that information in 5 or 10 minutes but in 30 minutes to an hour I can absolutely know whether it's someone I'd want to do business with. He's chosen to be in business with people whose integrity I know is lacking.

If someone wants professional advice and assistance from you, then they must take the time and share enough with you to make that possible. Otherwise they can be like someone I ran across recently, and you're also familiar with, who went to Marinemax and their entire knowledge of boats is now what that salesman told them. Ultimately, the buyer needs to ask themselves do you want to just deal with a salesperson or establish a relationship. Oh, and one question I'd encourage asking brokers is "Give me an example of a situation in which you fired a customer." If they say they never have, then move on.
 
. the sham known as pop yachts

Pop Yachts contacted me after I ran an ad to sell my boat on some bulletin board similar to this one
I ended up listing my boat with Pop, not much action for a few moths. (Asking price $158k)
After 3-4 months we lowered the asking price to $152.5k.
Got a few showings then one guy fell in love with the boat, long story short, he paid asking price, which was $9,500 more than I paid for the tub brand new 18 months earlier.
Needless to say I am happy with Pop Yachts.

I have also done business with Judy and can highly recommend her services, very knowledgeable, easy going and highly recommended.
Will use her next time when I go boat shopping again. :smitten:
 
To those saying "it happens in every industry" seems kind of dismissive to something most industries would find disgusting. A real estate broker wouldn't act like this because there's laws against it and they'd lose their license.

Au contraire, mon ami! I've dealt in investment & properties from California to North Carolina over the past 40 years & I guarantee you there are ignorant & unscrupulous RE broker & salespeople from coast to coast. My last broker here cheated me out of $500 on the sale of a mobile home park, even though we'd done business since the 1980's & I'd referred other clients to him over the years. It was petty, but a total ethics/legal violation & the only reason I withdrew my formal complaint from the RE Commission was that his wife was a personal friend & I didn't want to affect her livelihood. She'd been my original agent, & one of the best I've ever had, but had retired. Her husband told me he thought I'd made enough money & shouldn't expect any more. Turned out a house sale in California was conducted by an agent without a license & my agent's broker had to go in & clean up the mess after 5 months in an escrow in which some of the buyers' names kept changing. Oh, the bad ones are out there, & no one industry is immune, in spite of supposedly rigorous laws & regulations.
 
Oh, the bad ones are out there, & no one industry is immune, in spite of supposedly rigorous laws & regulations.


Keep in mind that other than FL and California, no other states have any regulation of boat brokers and salespersons.
 
Au contraire, mon ami! I've dealt in investment & properties from California to North Carolina over the past 40 years & I guarantee you there are ignorant & unscrupulous RE broker & salespeople from coast to coast. My last broker here cheated me out of $500 on the sale of a mobile home park, even though we'd done business since the 1980's & I'd referred other clients to him over the years. It was petty, but a total ethics/legal violation & the only reason I withdrew my formal complaint from the RE Commission was that his wife was a personal friend & I didn't want to affect her livelihood. She'd been my original agent, & one of the best I've ever had, but had retired. Her husband told me he thought I'd made enough money & shouldn't expect any more. Turned out a house sale in California was conducted by an agent without a license & my agent's broker had to go in & clean up the mess after 5 months in an escrow in which some of the buyers' names kept changing. Oh, the bad ones are out there, & no one industry is immune, in spite of supposedly rigorous laws & regulations.


That's commendable for your friend but I have a hard time dealing with cheats. I've had a few, turned them over to the state real estate commission board and always got restitution, and a few lost their jobs... and good riddance. NO industry deserves a cheat.



Overall, my best luck in buying and selling most anything has been with the owners themselves. On occasion I've searched them out and done business directly. I'm not a big investor, but have well over a hundred transactions and very few problems. As for boats, I'm on number 21. There's no law against you dealing direct with the owner, regardless if they've listed the boat or not. (now, the owner may be liable for a commission but not your concern). I've had a few thanks me for direct contact because their broker wasn't doing the job. And I've had a few tell me to just contact their broker to which I just said no thanks.


Yes, I've had a few great brokers over the years... mostly used as a buyer's broker when buying. Lately, I've been frustrated with them (I've got a separate thread on this).
 
I'm dealing with a good broker now

Working on buying a boat now. Am a lady in my 30s, so the age factor doesn't help either.

But the broker for the seller who I'm dealing with now has been great so far. Seems to take me seriously. Gave me tons of his time and attention. Let me spend about 3hrs crawling all around a boat in Pensacola this week.

So yeah, I'd recommend. Other people in the city said good things about him too while I was visiting.

Kevin Barber Kevinb@edwardsyachtsales.com
 

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