Question about Survey as seller

[Seevee]

Here in Fort Lauderdale, the yachting Capital of the US, it would be very uncommon not to have the buyer on board for the survey. I tell my clients that it is critical for them to be onboard for the sea trial, if not for the entire survey, sometimes on a larger boat that may be two or more days for survey. If a surveyor said they did not want the buyer to take up their time asking questions I would suggest a different surveyor. Many times a good surveyor will verbally explain a finding differently than in his written report, explaining how an item might be repaired or updated in different manners at different expense levels.
Typically at the end of the day after the sea trial we all sit together, buyer, brokers, and surveyors to go over the findings. The surveyors will look through their notes and talk about the highlights and explain and answer questions on the spot. The written report comes later but the buyer has the important stuff on the spot. Many of the surveyors are booked well in advance and cannot come back easily another day. There is an engine surveyor here in Fort Lauderdale who has done over 5,000 engine surveys and he is booked enough it is hard to get him on short notice.
Here in Florida we often sell boats for buyers and to sellers who do not live nearby. Often a captain is hired for the day to run the boat and I ask that the seller be available to answer questions by phone.

Tucker,

Excellent post, sounds like the BEST way to handle a survey!

 

[Rogerh]

Totally agree with Tucker. If a surveyor does not agree to me being present, asking questions and understanding issues as found then I do not want them. This is the first thing I ask the surveyor before I book them. If they tell me that they don't want questions on the day of the survey, I don't care how recommended he or she is I will not use them. After all I am paying for the survey.

As to the seller being present, I believe it is in there best interest and helpful to all. The seller needs to stay out of the way, keep clear of semi private conversations and so on. When I am the seller I just let all parties know I am available for any questions they may have, that I am very familiar with the vessel and available to locate items if need be. IMHO

 

[bglad]

Stay and make it clear you will help if asked but keep out of the way. I do a lot of surveys and know a lot but am not a know it all. A knowledgeable seller is helpful but not if hovering. At the end of the day I want to represent the boat accurately and fairly by any means I have available. Better to have a seller present to demonstrate atypical systems to the satisfaction of the surveyor and buyer while all are present, especially older boats that have had modifications made.

Prospective buyer bringing surveyor to see my boat that is for sell. As a seller, do I just leave or stay on the boat?

 

[CaptSteve53]

Here in Fort Lauderdale, the yachting Capital of the US, it would be very uncommon not to have the buyer on board for the survey. I tell my clients that it is critical for them to be onboard for the sea trial, if not for the entire survey, sometimes on a larger boat that may be two or more days for survey. If a surveyor said they did not want the buyer to take up their time asking questions I would suggest a different surveyor. Many times a good surveyor will verbally explain a finding differently than in his written report, explaining how an item might be repaired or updated in different manners at different expense levels.
Typically at the end of the day after the sea trial we all sit together, buyer, brokers, and surveyors to go over the findings. The surveyors will look through their notes and talk about the highlights and explain and answer questions on the spot. The written report comes later but the buyer has the important stuff on the spot. Many of the surveyors are booked well in advance and cannot come back easily another day. There is an engine surveyor here in Fort Lauderdale who has done over 5,000 engine surveys and he is booked enough it is hard to get him on short notice.
Here in Florida we often sell boats for buyers and to sellers who do not live nearby. Often a captain is hired for the day to run the boat and I ask that the seller be available to answer questions by phone.

As a Broker you have a different perspective than as a Surveyor, A surveyor is the one usually taken to court in any ensuing legal action !

Again i fully agree the SELLER or his representative MUST be on board , here's a little reasoning behind a buyer asking questions while the surveyor is working(as you rightfully state after the Survey is a different story and the correct way to do it -)

If you where having surgery you would not want any one(third party) asking questions to the Surgeon while the operation is on going (Right?) every year even with out unnecessary talking and counting every piece of equipment (twice) (Approximately 12 or more patients a day suffer from this -and some die!)

Now I hear all the above posts crying, what the hell, has this got to do with a Surveyor

OK, I'm in the bilge and about to check a sea cock (dosent look to good-suffering from de -zincification) when the buyer asks a question , being respectful to my client i take a look at his concern, now going back to the bilge I miss the sea cock and move to the next one, (yes negligent- but was side tracked at a critical moment in time and as with the Surgeon it could be costly) now three months later in a blow offshore the seacock breaks off /boat sinks/people die! all because of being side tracked at a critical moment!- unbelievable NO same as with Surgeon's it happens if all the dots align!!and who gets charged No not the broker the Surveyor (every time)

I'm not or ever have said the buyer not to attend , what I'm saying is
if you do attend leave your questions to the end as Mr Broker points out (at the end of the Survey!) your life could depend on it!

I'm not trying to be argumentative here Just throwing in the fact that most professionals dont mind giving advice at all -just at the right time and place-not during the middle of an operation or survey!

Cheers Steve

 

[BruceK]

Capt Steve, it seems to me that the time to ask a question about that seacock is while the surveyor is checking it, rather than later. Obviously a barrage of questions about something totally different to the area being surveyed is distracting and unhelpful. But bear in mind, not every buyer will remember afterwards all the issues he wanted to ask during the survey.
yachtbrokerguy`s experiences pretty much accord with my experience as a buyer. I learn more being there than just reading a report,that said, both avenues of information are important. I would not be happy if a surveyor asked me to zip it until after survey. Issues can emerge mid survey which are a deal breaker, I`d want to know about them, right away.

 

[psneeld]

I see both sides.

Yes, an intelligent buyer who understands distraction errors and asking pertinent to task at hand questions with good timing is not a big deal......

But how many of those are out there? Certainly not all buyers.....

So again, it can work both ways no matter who is or isnt aboard.

All involved have skin in the game, and all can stop the process when someone demands what another doesnt want.

Not all that hard to comprehend if you have been or put yourselves in another's shoes.

 

[CaptSteve53]

I see both sides.

Yes, an intelligent buyer who understands distraction errors and asking pertinent to task at hand questions with good timing is not a big deal......

But how many of those are out there? Certainly not all buyers.....

So again, it can work both ways no matter who is or isnt aboard.

All involved have skin in the game, and all can stop the process when someone demands what another doesnt want.

Not all that hard to comprehend if you have been or put yourselves in another's shoes.

Psneeld,

Probably the wisest post so far (even including my own)

My final (I promise) thought for the Post!

I also even as debating the negative side of Buyers being present while actually Surveying, fully understand why the Buyer wants to be there, but still cant fully rationalize why boats seem to bring out the righteous side of what is expected from a Professional Surveyor, when for example we all take our cars/trucks into dealer ships for services/surveys/complaints and are we allowed to stand by the Professional car/truck mechanic while they work on it (Hell No!) there's signs every where telling you no customers past this point, yet you are paying a professional for his work! Why then is it then expected to be different for the Surveyor?(Because it's a boat???)Hmmmm - Yet we accept the above other Professionals in their right to work with out interuptions with out question!

I would also argue the case of how many other professional or non professional for that matter allow clients to stand by while they doing there jobs-Do you stand by and talk to the crane operator while he is pulling your boat out of the water and ask questions?(Dont think so),Do you ask to stand by the Nurse/doctor at a clinic while they do your blood work up? No we accept the Professional result's as given, and yet we are paying for their expertise and wouldn't ever think of even asking to go inside the laboratory while working on your issues.

No matter what position/career you are in some one standing alongside you while trying to do your job is for most of us (come on be fair here!) not well taken and even some could say damn right annoying causing possible errors!

So the question is:why is it with Boat Surveyors applying their normal trade is it expected to look over his shoulder at his place of work?

Cheers Steve

 

[JLD]

When I buy my next boat, I plan on being present for the survey. If a surveyor tells me that I am not welcomed, then I won't be using (paying) said surveyor. Lets face it, as is most professions, there are good surveyors and not-so-good surveyors. And when I am buying a boat for 120-150K, I want to see what the surveyor actually looks at. How thorough is their survey? There is only so much info in a written report. Even at 20 pages, it includes a lot of stock language and photos.

Regarding interacting with other professionals, one of the reasons that my wife and I have had the same doctor for the last 12+ years is that during our appointments she explains what she is doing and finding during her exam. Same holds true with our dog's veterinarian. If this wasn't the case, and the doctor only told us at the end of the appointment, what his/her findings were, we would change to other doctors.

Jim

 

[psneeld]

Thats fine.....everyone gets a vote....to stay or to walk....at any time.

As I posted, good, sharp buyers and sellers are probably not a problem.

I had an old boss and ex wife who were such a distraction at closings when we were flipping houses (and she was the realtor), I usually asked them to leave. That was so I could read the documents in peace. In every closing I found errors the title company had in the docs.

Had they been allowed to stay, who knows if I would have found the errors.

If I was a surveyor and worried about missing things because the buyer or seller was distracting me too much, I would ask for space to do my job....or leave it it came to it. No job is worth either the chance of a serious mistake or stress.

 

[Seevee]

While I can see both sides of the story, I could argue strongly if one is paying for a surveyor's he certainly has the right to be there and ask questions on the spot, but that has to be agreed up by both parties. For me as a buyer OR a seller, I would insist on it.

Now, as a surveyor (no I'm not one).... but I am an aircraft mechanic with authorization privileges. That means I inspect for safety and compliance (condition report, just like a surveyor) and if I screw up it's about as bad as a surveyor would, but planes don't sink, they crash.....

So, we have a way to deal with this. It's a checklist. And while not only a good idea, it's required by law. We do modify them for specific applications, but one could easily be made up for boating. I occasionally work with others that do ask questions. When the operation is critical... meaning there's a sequence of items that need to be done, without skipping one, I will tell the guest that this is "sterile" time.... no chat. When done, I'll ask if there's questions.

Easy to apply that to boating. And in both my situation and the surveyors, we are not there to "fix" things, we are there to inspect and report. So rarely will there be operations that are critical the take a long time... and if so, there's different procedures for those.

Another thing that works... is to just brief the survey inspection procedure. Lay down some rules.... this is the time to talk, and this is not. Don't step on my fingers and I won't hit you where it hurts..... If the surgery doesn't do that, I (as buyer) will. I tell him what I need (long before he gets there), and on the spot, we discuss how things will be carried out. It has worked excellent for me over the years. I'll also do that with my car mechanic, doctor, blood nurse and proctologist (maybe). Also, I'll do that with my customers, I want them to know what's wrong and why and how critical it is or is not.

So, this works fine for most. The principal gets the info he wants and gets to see things as they happen. The surveyor gets the job done and has the opportunity to have some sterile time... and everyone's happy.