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Old 07-13-2016, 03:10 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by utazo89 View Post
Ted.

I would never make and offer, if I did not have the financing in order. My offer was 20% below the asking. I know that is quite high %, but not unheard of. I am not brave enough to start 40-50% below asking. Some are.
It is not always just about what the seller thinks the boat is worth. Sometimes situations, life changes can push a deal to a lower price acceptance (age, health, upkeep, another boat bought, divorce, marriage, etc.) Me, as a buyer, possibly cannot know, if that is the case. Maybe the listing broker does. So, as an outsider, why should not I do an offering very low first, and adjust it later, as it goes?
I think 20% is a low initial offer, but not an unreasonably low initial offer. That is an offer that the broker should give to the seller. Now, if the seller has already rejected offers higher, that is information the broker can share but nothing wrong with making the offer.
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Old 07-13-2016, 03:14 PM   #22
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I thought, the brokers were not allowed to suggest, or be involved, what the numbers should be. Am I wrong on this?
The first broker's offer from has specifically stated this.




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Did your broker make a suggestion to you as what he thought fair market value of the boat was?
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Old 07-13-2016, 03:20 PM   #23
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Ted.

I would never make and offer, if I did not have the financing in order. My offer was 20% below the asking.
I also don't think 20% below asking is " lowball."
Many of the older boats we looked at eventually sold for 20-50% asking price.
Our own was 50% below original asking price, when we stepped in after two price reductions. Ours was a cash offer, sellers might look at cash and financing offers differently.
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Old 07-13-2016, 03:23 PM   #24
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I thought, the brokers were not allowed to suggest, or be involved, what the numbers should be. Am I wrong on this?
The first broker's offer from has specifically stated this.

I don't know...that's why I asked. I would think if you're working with a buyers broker (in other words a broker other than the listing broker) he should be able to provide you some guidance about comps etc.
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Old 07-13-2016, 03:48 PM   #25
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Would you consider a 33 old boat ' older '?


W
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I also don't think 20% below asking is " lowball."
Many of the older boats we looked at eventually sold for 20-50% asking price..
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Old 07-13-2016, 03:56 PM   #26
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I think 20% is a low initial offer, but not an unreasonably low initial offer.
To a point.
20% off a 500k boat? Probably.
20% off a 118k boat? Probably not.

utazo89, I'm guessing there are at least two, not so common, elements at play. The seller can't get passed comparing your US offer to his Canadian asking and the selling broker not wanting to split the commish.

I will go out on a limb here and say, if that boat doesn't sell in the next 45 to 60 days, it will eventually go within 10k of your offer.

There was a thread recently about offers and the consensus was 20 to 30 below for a start was not all that out of line.

It is an insult only because you took it that way.
Your offer was probably seen as an insult to the seller but you didn't think it was, right?

Perception.

Move on.
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Old 07-13-2016, 04:03 PM   #27
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To a point.
20% off a 500k boat? Probably.
20% off a 118k boat? Probably not.

utazo89, I'm guessing there are at least two, not so common, elements at play. The seller can't get passed comparing your US offer to his Canadian asking and the selling broker not wanting to split the commish.

I will go out on a limb here and say, if that boat doesn't sell in the next 45 to 60 days, it will eventually go within 10k of your offer.

There was a thread recently about offers and the consensus was 20 to 30 below for a start was not all that out of line.

It is an insult only because you took it that way.
Your offer was probably seen as an insult to the seller but you didn't think it was, right?

Perception.

Move on.

That's the problem with folks wanting to know a percentage based rule of thumb. 20% off a $10,000 boat ain't much. 20% off a $1million boat is separate zip codes.

It doesn't sound like the op is playing lowball to me at all depending upon the price range.
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Old 07-13-2016, 04:14 PM   #28
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I wouldn't consider a 20% below asking a lowball offer. There are some boats listed which are anything up to double the realistic price they will sell for.

With my boat, I offered 30% less than the asking price, then settled on 25% less. I had done my research and showed him a list of similar boats and their list and sale prices.

After the survey picked up a few minor issues, I tried to knock it down a bit more, but the seller dug his heels in. I could tell he was at his lower limit so I didn't push it any more.

Buying privately allowed me to negotiate directly with the seller. I think this made it easier to put forward my thoughts about the pricing without insulting the seller.
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Old 07-13-2016, 05:03 PM   #29
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I really think it's the condition of the boat and what the asking price is for the boat....plus where it stands with comparables.

Let's say there are 10 Albin 40s listed. From $40k to $140k .

The bottom one has been on the hard for 4 years, doesn't run and is a wreck. The next is 60k and is in rough condition, but runs with a new rebuilt, and has been cruising regularly.

The next batch are up around 90k and all in OK shape, turnkey as many would say.

The top one or two up near $140k have had major refit that cost more than the asking price.

If you offered significant less than the $90k group for the new refits, yes, those guys might be insulted. But realistically, not many are going to give the much more than the 90k group.

If you offered 50k to the 90k group...they too might be insulted...but because there are lower priced boats many would take $75k or so if they needed to get out.

The $40k POS has an uncertain future....in any way shape or form.

Now the 60k boat is the wild card. Rough but a working cruiser. Way better than the lowest on the ladder, not as nice as the 90k crowd....but with sweat equity and a little cash...bingo.

You can offer the 60k guy a little less, but not much as he already thinks he is in the bargain basement crowd and with a little effort the boat can be a 90k crowd boat.

So it is a game...depending on the boats and the players and the market.

If you own a boat where only 10 hulls were ever made and they are pretty different from the crowd.....more juice in your pocket.

No particular hard and fast rule...but low ball a guy with a fair asking price and the boat is in great shape and there is an entire ladder of lesser boats...and yes, here in the US YOU might insult someone.....see it all the time.
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Old 07-13-2016, 05:23 PM   #30
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I wouldn't consider a 20% below asking a lowball offer. There are some boats listed which are anything up to double the realistic price they will sell for.

With my boat, I offered 30% less than the asking price, then settled on 25% less. I had done my research and showed him a list of similar boats and their list and sale prices.

After the survey picked up a few minor issues, I tried to knock it down a bit more, but the seller dug his heels in. I could tell he was at his lower limit so I didn't push it any more.

Buying privately allowed me to negotiate directly with the seller. I think this made it easier to put forward my thoughts about the pricing without insulting the seller.
That somewhat mirrors our experience.

There were many factors involved; the most important being how long it had been up for sale, and the mortgage/bank crisis in the US had squeezed prices lower in BC (prices had seriously dropped in Washington State and Alaska).
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Old 07-13-2016, 06:50 PM   #31
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I recently made an offer on a trawler that was around 20% under listing price, they would not come back with a counter. I am so glad they did! Kept on looking and found same boat with much more features and equipment and saved myself over 10 grand!
Keep on looking and learn as much as you can.
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Old 07-13-2016, 06:53 PM   #32
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The beauty of a boat not under warranty, you have no idea how much you actually saved for at least a couple years...maybe up to 5...possibly even up to 10 years.
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Old 07-13-2016, 07:03 PM   #33
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Yes, that is what I'll do.
Lot to learn!


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Keep on looking and learn as much as you can.
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Old 07-13-2016, 07:12 PM   #34
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The beauty of a boat not under warranty, you have no idea how much you actually saved for at least a couple years...maybe up to 5...possibly even up to 10 years.
Reminds me of the saying...just because you aren't paranoid doesn't mean they aren't watching you.

I know our boat has "issues", but the effect it has had on our quality of life offsets the future work and money to set things right(ish).
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Old 07-13-2016, 07:28 PM   #35
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The kind of response you experienced may be a form of negotiation saying" No. Make a higher offer." As dhays says, it indicates the seller sees no prospect of a successful negotiation due to gap between price and offer. Purporting to be offended is a negotiating tactic. The "wince", oral or in behavior, is a negotiating tactic to signal the offer is low. Requesting permission to not put the offer to the seller, as it may "do harm", is as much a negotiation as anything else.
Sellers and or agents assume an initial offer is probably a "probing first offer" and will try to elicit the next offer right away. A question like "What if the seller says no, what would you do, would you offer more, how much?" is typical.
Sellers will vary enormously. Some are keen, some even anxious, some are reluctant. Expect a wide range of responses.
In litigation we used to get responses like "We spit on your offer" and "May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your armpit". Hopefully you won`t get to that level.
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Old 07-13-2016, 07:40 PM   #36
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After reading about a million of these boat buying/selling/pricing/negotiation threads, I'm beginning to think we waaaayyy over-think all this.

You offer what you're willing and able to pay. It's either accepted, rejected, countered, or ignored. The end.

(An "insulting" offer? There is no such thing. It's business Sonny, it's not personal. I'm not tendering an offer on your wife or daughter.)
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Old 07-13-2016, 08:02 PM   #37
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Lol, that is a good one. Thanks BruceK. I need to memorize them. :-)



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In litigation we used to get responses like "We spit on your offer" and "May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your armpit". Hopefully you won`t get to that level.
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Old 07-13-2016, 08:05 PM   #38
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The only reason I say it's personal and not business...is because of all the "other" threads that discuss boats as love affairs and that no price can be put on what they ultimately give you...

I sit back every day and enjoy the constant contradictions made on this site.

I have known people, like my PO that took every comment and this or that very personally...thus I approached my multi-lever offer to him very carefully.

When I called about the craigs list ad, he said it was cancelled (only a couple weeks old) because he was going with a broker to get a much higher price....but would honor it for me if I paid full price. We still wound up negotiating a bit...but I was very specific and used 3rd party input like the survey before I dickered on final price.
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Old 07-13-2016, 08:09 PM   #39
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Absolutely! When we do make an offer we will sit down with our buyers broker and consider his knowledge of the market and what we actually feel the boat is worth to US. I really don't care what the buyer thinks his boat is worth. If he doesn't like our offer, oh well, there are plenty others for sale.
Another thing we're taking into consideration is when we do sell the boat in however many years that will be. We don't expect to make a profit, or even come close to breaking even. But we will want to price it as high as we think the market will bear. And we will be ready to consider all offers. Like my broker said "the first offer is usually the best".
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Old 07-13-2016, 09:05 PM   #40
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There is no such thing is a low ball. However that doesn't mean that a un educated guess
is not insulting!
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