Insurance for Seaweed

[janice142]

I have a problem. I'd like to obtain insurance for Seaweed (liability only is fine -- something so that I could go into a marina without problems on occasion)

The problem is me: I do not have a driver's license nor have I had one for ten-plus years. I don't remember when mine expired however I quit driving more than ten years ago, about the time of chemo.

I have never driven drunk -- no tickets for that.
Still, when my license came up for renewal a long time ago I opted not to renew.

Now apparently every insurance company requires a driver's license in order to buy boat insurance. That doesn't seem correct. So I asked around and got the name Jon Horton from MTOA. He wrote a policy which was rejected (no license).

My credit score is over 800, and I drive a 5 knot boat.
Do you have any suggestions?

And I really do not want to try for a license. I'm afraid to drive -- it's been a lot of years, and I'm over 60 now. I cannot see me ever driving a car again. If I HAD to, but even the thought gives me knots in my stomach........

Thoughts? Suggestions? (All appreciated)
And thanks!

Seaweed is 23' long
She's a Schucker Gulf Packet model, built in 1983
18hp Kubota 3-cylinder diesel inboard

I've got 15,000 miles at the helm of our 40'er and a few hundred on Seaweed. Never involved in any maritime accidents.

Oh, and I drank two glasses of wine last year (or was it the year before?)
Drinking isn't my thing.

Boat is in Florida.

 

[AusCan]

Hi Janice
I can understand not wanting to drive. It can be crazy on the roads. But can you not renew your drivers license without driving? Isn’t it just a matter of paying the renewal fee. I know the fee may be exorbitant but it shouldn’t involve a driving test until your later years, I would think.

 

[DavidM]

Many states issue a picture ID card for non drivers. It should be accepted by the insurance companies as it is suitable for airline travel and as a voter ID. Check with the Florida DMV office.



David

 

[O C Diver]

I'm guessing the drivers license is a requirement to prove that the state allows you to operate a motor vehicle (your driving privileges haven't been suspended or revoked by a state). It indicates that you are also healthy enough (with acceptable eye sight ) to operate a motor vehicle. Don't think the state ID card that David referenced above, will satisfy the insurance company. The logic of requiring a driver's license is used by the federal government for flying light sport aircraft. This type of aviation license doesn't require a flight medical, but requires a automobile drivers license to demonstrate you're healthy enough to operate the aircraft.

You might trying emailing BoatUS. They seem to have a pretty good consumer advocacy help department for boating related issues.

Can you put your son, daughter or someone else on the title as co-owner and get the policy in their name?

Ted

 

[OldDan1943]

If you put your son or daughter on the boat title, I think the boat should automatically transfer to the survivor upon your death, without paying taxes.
Of course there is the liability issue.... 2 names on the boat, opens you both up to the liability if involved in a accident. Not a good thing if you do not have insurance.
Insurance.... find an attorney who specializes in insurance. He should know of a work around.
No one likes attorneys until one is needed.

 

[OldDan1943]

Janice, it took awhile but, I did learn a few things about that boat.
6 were made, 3 remaining. Yours is a scarce diesel powered version. Nice setup for the interior. Looks like a nice weekend boat.

 

[BIG CAT]

Many states issue a picture ID card for non drivers. It should be accepted by the insurance companies as it is suitable for airline travel and as a voter ID. Check with the Florida DMV office.



David

When I lived in FL I had an extra id for work purposes.

So yes the state of Florida did and may still issue ID's that are pretty much the same as a driver license. My I'd had the same number as my driver's license. The fee was only like $25 iirc. But I already had a state dl so it maybe more starting from scratch.

 

[Benthic2]

Would it make a difference if you got a USCG Captain's License ?

 

[Xsbank]

Find an insurance broker and get the definitive answer from them?

Good luck Janice, I hope it works out for you.

 

[Ski in NC]

Yea, second that about checking with a boat insurance broker. They really know the ins and outs about what policies are available. Some may blow you off as this will be a very small policy, but the good ones will be helpful.

And second that bit others posted that it may be cheapest to go get a DL for this purpose only. Here in NC they are good for ten years and cost little, not sure about Fla.

 

[hmason]

Hi Janet. Don't know if this article written by Jeff Siegal will be of help but it might be a start. Good luck. Howard

 

[dhays]

I see two possible reasons why the insurance company may have denied the policy. The first may be an issue of an ID. If so, a state issued picture ID would suffice, possibly even a passport.

If the issue is, as was mentioned above, that they want evidence that the state has considered you worthy of operating a vehicle, then that is a bigger problem. Getting your license might not be a big issue if you can find someone that will allow you the use of their car for the test. You would need to take the written test and then the driving test. If you find a nice quiet community somewhere, the test should be relatively stress free.

If you could get word from the insurance companies as to what they are looking for, you would have an idea as to which direction to take.

BTW, I applaud your desire to get liability insurance. I think it is responsible move.

 

[Larry M]

My take is they want to see a dirt address which you need to have to get a drivers license. I believe po boxes are no allowed for drivers licenses. We had been using Friday Harbor Marina as an address on our drivers licenses. We went to renew after Sept 11, DMV no longer allowed it. They wanted a physical address. I wouldn’t be surprised if the insurance companies want the same thing.

 

[ssobol]

I 'm sure that there are many boats owned through corporations or LLCs. While these may have a land based address, there is no one person who is the owner/operator of the boat. These boats get insured with no one having to show a driver's license.

 

[dhays]

I 'm sure that there are many boats owned through corporations or LLCs. While these may have a land based address, there is no one person who is the owner/operator of the boat. These boats get insured with no one having to show a driver's license.

Banks are getting fussy about such stuff. I am a member of three LLCs. The banks are requiring copies of the driver’s license and a signature for all members of the LLC for the business accounts, not just signers and managing members. I wouln’t be surprised to see insurance companies do the same now.

 

[psneeld]

I 'm sure that there are many boats owned through corporations or LLCs. While these may have a land based address, there is no one person who is the owner/operator of the boat. These boats get insured with no one having to show a driver's license.

the last 2 liveaboard policies I have had were very specific as to who was the regular operator(s) or who was allowed to operate the boat.

I bet there are a few brokers that can get Janice insurance. A few marine insurers are reasonable and dont play the silly games of insurers that are barely into the marine business.

 

[BandB]

All I can suggest is shop more insurers and may have to give in and get a license as I'm seeing exactly what dhays referenced in many places insisting on driver's licenses and other things that are not legally required. I know companies insisting on driver's licenses from new employees and claiming they need them for their I-9. It is not a requirement, just one option. I was involved recently in setting up a trust account and my bank I've used the longest would not do so based on the trust agreement but we went to another bank that their legal department immediately approved it.

 

[Larry M]

For ~20 years we used a a mail forwarding address that was a business condo building, at one time is was residential. A few times a year we’d get a call back when we gave the address as our residence because it was flagged as a comercial property. We worked around it but today it seems like you need a land base address. The businesses that are/we’re questioning the address, I don’t blame them. If something goes south, they’re just trying to protect themselves.

 

[janice142]

Alas AusCan... were it only that simple. Unfortunately it's been so long since I had a license I'm no longer in their computer system. I've got to start fresh.

Argh.

Hi Janice
I can understand not wanting to drive. It can be crazy on the roads. But can you not renew your drivers license without driving? Isn’t it just a matter of paying the renewal fee. I know the fee may be exorbitant but it shouldn’t involve a driving test until your later years, I would think.

 

[janice142]

Thanks Cap'n David. I tried something similar. In lieu of the driver's license I sent in a copy of my Passport. It was rejected. (Having seen the photo, I can well understand that!)

Many states issue a picture ID card for non drivers. It should be accepted by the insurance companies as it is suitable for airline travel and as a voter ID. Check with the Florida DMV office.

 

[janice142]

You might trying emailing BoatUS. They seem to have a pretty good consumer advocacy help department for boating related issues.

Can you put your son, daughter or someone else on the title as co-owner and get the policy in their name?

BoatUS is where I started. They quoted a great price for full coverage. I pulled out my credit card and that's when the clincher came: They needed a driver's license number. Supervisors were no help -- it's a requirement of the company that writes the policies.

Yes, i get the "healthy enough to drive" bit... seems a bit ridiculous when you're talking about a five-knot boat (that's with the current, not against it)

Rules are Rules.
Son passed away (heart attack) in 2002 when he was 21 years old. I miss my boy. I don't know that adding Kidlet would be a good idea. I love knowing my boat/my choices. Giving up that for bureaucracy just doesn't work for me.

Thank you for the ideas though. I appreciate that. And for helping me understand the rule behind having a license for cars. Your explanation makes sense. I had not considered that -- only figuring it was to make sure I wasn't a drunk or something.

 

[janice142]

If you put your son or daughter on the boat title, I think the boat should automatically transfer to the survivor upon your death, without paying taxes.
Of course there is the liability issue.... 2 names on the boat, opens you both up to the liability if involved in a accident. Not a good thing if you do not have insurance.
Insurance.... find an attorney who specializes in insurance. He should know of a work around.
No one likes attorneys until one is needed.

Liability concerns me. I would not want my Kidlet to be placed at risk. It would be one more thing on her plate and that plate is already filled.

As far as attorney's you're correct. One statement an attorney I knew made it to my aphorisms file. It is:

For all who are convinced that your cat truly loves you, try to remember that, if you were to magically shrink to a size just smaller than your pet, the feline of your dreams would kill and eat you. Gil Ross, Attorney.

I like Gil. He's a hoot.

For the curious when I use an aphorism in one of my articles (and one is always at the end of each article) I add them to this page: Janice aboard Seaweed's Aphorism Collection

 

[janice142]

Would it make a difference if you got a USCG Captain's License ?

I'm being told Driver's License. And the liability plus added rules to have your 6-pack license make it a pain. For instance, I don't keep a radio log.

I'd rather be just another boater than a captain.

 

[janice142]

If the issue is, as was mentioned above, that they want evidence that the state has considered you worthy of operating a vehicle, then that is a bigger problem. Getting your license might not be a big issue if you can find someone that will allow you the use of their car for the test. You would need to take the written test and then the driving test. If you find a nice quiet community somewhere, the test should be relatively stress free.

I'll admit the driving part concerned me. You see, when I first got a driver's license I was driving a MG Midget. When it came time to parallel park I simply pulled into the spot. The gentleman said I had to back up, so I did.

Gosh I loved that little car. Most of my life I drove small cars. Around here, everybody had BIG things, SUV's, trucks and such. I don't know that i could pass a test in one of them. The last car I drove was a Ford Escort though I did have a Buick for a time in my late 30's.

A local (thanks so much!!!) offered to help with the vehicle. That's a HUGE lift off my mind.I was worried about that a lot.

 

[janice142]

The dirt address is part of the license thing as I found out on Monday. I've got Kidlet mailing me a box. In it is my BoatUS renewal (Towboat) and one other document that should satisfy the state.

I am fortunate to be able to use Kidlet's house for important stuff. Every few months I get a box with presents, mail and such. It's great fun for me. I love presents!

My take is they want to see a dirt address which you need to have to get a drivers license. I believe po boxes are no allowed for drivers licenses. We had been using Friday Harbor Marina as an address on our drivers licenses. We went to renew after Sept 11, DMV no longer allowed it. They wanted a physical address. I wouldn’t be surprised if the insurance companies want the same thing.

 

[janice142]

I suspect Cap'n Ted (O C Diver) has the answer. The companies want to assure themselves that I'm physically capable of running a 5-knot boat. That's five when the current is with me...

You're correct though. The easiest is to capitulate and join the masses. I NEVER intend to drive a car so to me this is foolishness. However, in order to appease the insurance world I'll do what it takes, even though I don't like it one iota.

Such is life. The carrot is insurance. The stick is bureaucracy run amok.

All I can suggest is shop more insurers and may have to give in and get a license as I'm seeing exactly what dhays referenced in many places insisting on driver's licenses and other things that are not legally required. I know companies insisting on driver's licenses from new employees and claiming they need them for their I-9. It is not a requirement, just one option. I was involved recently in setting up a trust account and my bank I've used the longest would not do so based on the trust agreement but we went to another bank that their legal department immediately approved it.

 

[janice142]

Okay, and in conclusion...

Monday I went to the local Driver's License office in Largo, FL. There I discovered it's been so long since my license was valid I no longer exist in their system. So, I have to start fresh...

That means that FIRST I have to take a FOUR HOUR class on drugs. I wonder if they have anything on high blood pressure pills?!? Before they will even talk to me I have to complete this ridiculous waste of time.

I'm sure some well-meaning person thinks that there's the slimmest of possibilities that a drugged-out teen will have a epiphany and no longer do drugs because of said course.

Fortunately I can do this online. Unfortunately I have to pay $12 for the privilege though.

The cynic in me wonders who decided and got the a-okay to require a $12 class for every new driver in the state to learn about drugs... But I digress.

When I griped to my daughter she laughed at me. Sympathy was decidedly lacking. And the neighbor said "You've had a free ride for years"
Well, yes. Or I've walked, or taken a bus.

Then I get to take the written test. And pass a vision test. Then a driving test.

This is turning into a Fiasco. The carrot. I'll focus on the carrot. That's insurance.
Thanks gents for the advice, suggestions, etc.

I was really hoping there was a solution that didn't involve governmental bureaucracy. And everything I'd read suggested those with great credit were easy to write for... Who knew an automobile license would be a requirement to insure a boat?

Well, live and learn. And it's real hard to bellyache about life when I'm living on a boat in Florida. Really, life does not get much better. I am blessed. Truly blessed. Thanks to everyone for your input.

And here's a treat for you:

The manatees are back...

 

[OldDan1943]

A theory: Now, they can apply the points, for a violation ie speeding or DUI, to your driver's license. Dont have a driver's license, where will they apply the points?

 

[rochepoint]

Maybe Peter aka "Pau Hana" our insurance guru on this forum could help...........

 

[Pau Hana]

Insurance- and I wasn’t invited to the party? Tragic...

On the road right now- interesting thread. Will chime in later...