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Old 12-01-2016, 01:45 PM   #1
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Insurance for the Caribbean?

Any recommendations for insurers for a 1976 trawler worth less than $100k headed to St Thomas, USVI? Ideally would allow for a Cuba stop so may need to be Lloyds? Tried Pantaenius but was refused immediately due to "underwriting guidelines". Thanks!
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Old 12-01-2016, 02:23 PM   #2
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Any recommendations for insurers for a 1976 trawler worth less than $100k headed to St Thomas, USVI? Ideally would allow for a Cuba stop so may need to be Lloyds? Tried Pantaenius but was refused immediately due to "underwriting guidelines". Thanks!
Did Pantaenius say why? Age?

Lloyds is an option. Geico, not through Boat US but directly. Ace might be. Who is it currently insured with? Won't they still insure? Is USVI outside your cruising territory or are you indicating you're moving there?
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Old 12-01-2016, 03:07 PM   #3
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You need to talk to a marine insurance broker. They will know who will insure what. Either Jack Martin in Annapolis or IMIS Corp in Grasonville, Md.

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Old 12-01-2016, 04:39 PM   #4
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Did Pantaenius say why? Age?
I'll bet the value of the boat is to low.
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Old 12-01-2016, 04:47 PM   #5
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Got mine through progressive.
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Old 12-01-2016, 04:54 PM   #6
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Got mine through progressive.
I'd advise you to review your policy detail very carefully. I advise anyone to do that, but seeing who yours is through advise you even more. Yours may be great but I've seen some that had serious issues.
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Old 12-01-2016, 06:20 PM   #7
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I'd advise you to review your policy detail very carefully. I advise anyone to do that, but seeing who yours is through advise you even more. Yours may be great but I've seen some that had serious issues.
I had my attorney do everything before and during closing. I always try to do everything right. I don't like surprises!
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Old 12-01-2016, 06:28 PM   #8
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I had my attorney do everything before and during closing. I always try to do everything right. I don't like surprises!
With due respect Donna... How do you know what qualifications your attorney has as it relates to marine insurance?
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Old 12-01-2016, 06:47 PM   #9
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Any recommendations for insurers for a 1976 trawler worth less than $100k headed to St Thomas, USVI? Ideally would allow for a Cuba stop so may need to be Lloyds? Tried Pantaenius but was refused immediately due to "underwriting guidelines". Thanks!
Are you permanent in the USVI or just taking a trip? A trip should not be a problem, but there is the experience factor and vessel material condition that us underwriters take into consideration.

Cuba for most insuring companies is a no-go at this time, not to mention that you have to fall under one of the 12 US State Department approved reasons to visit Cuba.
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Old 12-01-2016, 06:52 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Donna View Post
Got mine through progressive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
I'd advise you to review your policy detail very carefully. I advise anyone to do that, but seeing who yours is through advise you even more. Yours may be great but I've seen some that had serious issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna View Post
I had my attorney do everything before and during closing. I always try to do everything right. I don't like surprises!
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Originally Posted by mbevins View Post
With due respect Donna... How do you know what qualifications your attorney has as it relates to marine insurance?
The above bolded quotes speak volumes and IMO must be heeded.

Unless the attorney is a maritime attorney specializing in admiralty law, I'd be be leery of his advice. With regards to reading and reviewing the policy- SPOT ON!
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Old 12-01-2016, 07:21 PM   #11
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Panhandler - try Caset Insurance Group out of Ft. Lauderdale. They are very resourceful. Speak with Casey direct...

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Old 12-01-2016, 07:25 PM   #12
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With due respect Donna... How do you know what qualifications your attorney has as it relates to marine insurance?
+1 to that!
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Old 12-01-2016, 07:29 PM   #13
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The above bolded quotes speak volumes and IMO must be heeded.

Unless the attorney is a maritime attorney specializing in admiralty law, I'd be be leery of his advice. With regards to reading and reviewing the policy- SPOT ON!
Donna, I'd reiterate what he said. You're a very smart woman, so I'd suggest you read the entire policy and if there are any clauses you don't understand then ask the insurer exactly what they mean. Here are some of the things I'd look out for:

Value-Is it Agreed Fixed Value or is it market value at the time. This is especially important with your improvements to the boat. It's not depreciating at this point.

Will they replace old parts with new or do they depreciate partial losses.

Do they provide indemnity to third parties and environmental.

Is it All Risks.

Does it exclude implied warranties of seaworthiness.

Does it cover even latent defects.

Salvage coverage. Does it provide salvage coverage on top of the value of the boat. For instance, if boat is totaled does it still pay for the salvage or does it deduct the salvage cost from the payout to you.

Now, it may well be your attorney is expert in all this and did a great job, but it's still, in my opinion, a good idea to read it all and know it yourself. If you are in some type of accident, you'll be the one who needs to react and know what your coverage is right then. Timing can be critical.
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Old 12-01-2016, 08:42 PM   #14
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The last half dozen posts are why you need to talk to a MARINE insurance broker. Al Golden at IMIS Corp. knows this stuff as well as any marine attorney.

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Old 12-01-2016, 08:47 PM   #15
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Greetings,
Our insurance does not allow travel to Cuba or Haiti.
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Old 12-02-2016, 05:44 AM   #16
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Quote:
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Did Pantaenius say why? Age?

Lloyds is an option. Geico, not through Boat US but directly. Ace might be. Who is it currently insured with? Won't they still insure? Is USVI outside your cruising territory or are you indicating you're moving there?
I was told several years ago that Pantaenius USA was only insuring US boats for the Caribbean with hull values in excess of $500,000.

While there are several companies to choose from, a frequently mentioned insurer of trawlers in the Caribbean is Markel. Al Golden and his IMIS operation works frequently in this area. The Trawler Forum's Paul Hana is another one to check with.

Don't think a US company is currently able to cover you for a trip to Cuba. This may have recently changed but check this. Also with the change in administration coming in January it is difficult to predict what will be the position of the US government with regard to travel to Cuba.
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Old 12-02-2016, 07:24 AM   #17
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Reach out to Pau Hana here on the forum. He is a broker and does know his way around marine insurance.
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Old 12-02-2016, 11:38 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
Did Pantaenius say why? Age?

Lloyds is an option. Geico, not through Boat US but directly. Ace might be. Who is it currently insured with? Won't they still insure? Is USVI outside your cruising territory or are you indicating you're moving there?
All, thanks for the tips. I've got some phone calls to make!

BandB, thanks for chiming in. I always appreciate your insurance insights. Pantaenius did not say why. I suspect it was low value.

We are currently insured with Progressive, which is an option with additional riders if we avoid Cuba (and, of course, Haiti and DR). However, I'm having trouble getting a response from the broker to even add the riders. I can't imagine an inexpensive 40 year old trawler is very profitable for him.

The USVI is currently outside our cruising territory. We are moving there in a sense. My wife is taking a travel assignment at the hospital in St Thomas for three months, but then we'll head back north before hurricane season.

How do the insurance brokers make their money? A percentage of the policy value? Is this why it's tough to get responses on a low value boat?

Thanks
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Old 12-02-2016, 12:07 PM   #19
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Another issue, and this will depend on your state of residence. If you have umbrella insurance make sure it will cover you and the boat while you are boating anywhere in the Caribbean. By cover I mean in excess of the boat's basic insurance policy. Also make sure it covers you if you are sued in a foreign court, not just if the accident occurs in a foreign location and you are sued back in the United States.

Although I have searched I have found only two companies out of a dozen I have called in Indiana which will issue an umbrella policy covering Bay Pelican in the Caribbean.
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Old 12-02-2016, 12:25 PM   #20
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An international insurer is more likely to be able to help you with Cuba than a US insurer. The only ones I know covering Cuba are Pantaenius and Lloyd's, but others may. Unfortunately, they both tend toward higher level boats.
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