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Old 12-20-2013, 10:09 AM   #1
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Insurance

I Bough my boat in Fort Lauderdale, but didn't make the transfer because I'm cruising to Brazil and once I arrive in Brazil, I already have the Brazilian Papers but now I still using the US Flag and papers.
I have to renew the insurance.
My boat doesn't exist any more in the US files.
How can I make a new ensurance?
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Old 12-20-2013, 11:24 AM   #2
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When you closed the purchase of the boat, the insurance policy became null and void- unless your vessel was purchased under an LLC.

It'll be difficult obtaining insurance if you're not a US citizen- I'd source a Brazil based insurer to provide your policy. They should be able to provide an endorsement to cover your cruising from Florida to Brazil.
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Old 12-20-2013, 12:52 PM   #3
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Hmm!

I am a little surprised that insurance won't be available for a non US citizen. I realize it won't be cheap, and maybe prohibitive, but this is what I think you can do:

Title the boat in your name with the State of Florida. You will have to pay their sales tax- 5-6%. Then purchase insurance in Florida. Again it won't be cheap as Florida premiums are sky high due to hurricane concerns.

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Old 12-20-2013, 02:33 PM   #4
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I am pretty sure that your us registration is invalid. I am pretty sure you must be a US citizen to have a USCG documented vessel a possible exception is that it could be registered to a US based company.

i am shocked that you were able to clear into customs of anywhere other than Brazil, where you are clearing by legally importing it, only using the PO's papers for documentation of sale.

I guess you just used the PO's documents and call yourself the captain of the PO's boat. but if its not in the USCG database, its good thing they didn't check the it and just took your word on the paperwork.

either way...i don't think any US insurance company is going to be able to help you. Get your Brazilian paperwork and Brazilian insurance.
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Old 12-20-2013, 02:37 PM   #5
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To make a insurance in Brazilian company, they must visit the boat and I must to pay a ticket, acomodation, ... to Puerto Rico.
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Old 12-20-2013, 03:05 PM   #6
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Hmm!

I am a little surprised that insurance won't be available for a non US citizen. I realize it won't be cheap, and maybe prohibitive, but this is what I think you can do:

Title the boat in your name with the State of Florida. You will have to pay their sales tax- 5-6%. Then purchase insurance in Florida. Again it won't be cheap as Florida premiums are sky high due to hurricane concerns.

David
Legally, one has to has legal standing in the US to title/document the boat in the US. Unless the OP can substantiate legal standing, he'll have to source insurance coverage in Brazil.

Yes, one could push and get coverage illegally; but there would be hell to pay should there be a loss-
  • The agen would lose his license.
  • The policy would cancel due to the application being fraudulent.
  • The agent may be liable for the damages.

I wouldn't write it.
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Old 12-20-2013, 03:07 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by eseyoung View Post
I am pretty sure that your us registration is invalid. I am pretty sure you must be a US citizen to have a USCG documented vessel a possible exception is that it could be registered to a US based company.

i am shocked that you were able to clear into customs of anywhere other than Brazil, where you are clearing by legally importing it, only using the PO's papers for documentation of sale.

I guess you just used the PO's documents and call yourself the captain of the PO's boat. but if its not in the USCG database, its good thing they didn't check the it and just took your word on the paperwork.

either way...i don't think any US insurance company is going to be able to help you. Get your Brazilian paperwork and Brazilian insurance.
100% correct.
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Old 12-20-2013, 06:10 PM   #8
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To make a insurance in Brazilian company, they must visit the boat and I must to pay a ticket, acomodation, ... to Puerto Rico.
Sounds like your agent in Brazil is getting a holiday in Puerto Rico on your dime. A great way to start a professional relationship with your new agent. I have a feeling you two will become great friends and you will receive great service from him.
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Old 12-20-2013, 06:38 PM   #9
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Peter:

Can't a non US citizen register and title a boat in any state? I realize the USCG won't document it (unless you set up a trust) but I am fairly sure that you can state title it. A non US citizen can definitely buy a car and register the car title in any state, so why can't they get a state title to a boat?

And what insurance company asks for proof of citizenship to insure a state titled boat?

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Old 12-20-2013, 07:29 PM   #10
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I could transfer the boat ti mt name but I had to pay the tax, despite I'm not a US citizen.
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Old 12-20-2013, 09:13 PM   #11
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Peter:

Can't a non US citizen register and title a boat in any state? I realize the USCG won't document it (unless you set up a trust) but I am fairly sure that you can state title it. A non US citizen can definitely buy a car and register the car title in any state, so why can't they get a state title to a boat?

And what insurance company asks for proof of citizenship to insure a state titled boat?

David
Underwriting guidelines require a US address; some also require a US driver's license (but that is an easy one to discuss with underwriters).

Ideally, the non-citizen has a valid US residence; the boat can be registered there. The problem lies when a P.O. Box is used as a residential address, or the address of a friend is used as the residence- and the agent is almost aware of the residential address being fraudulent.

The reason I said I wouldn't write the coverage; part of the interview process involves questions about residence and navigation territory. In that conversation, the truth about both would come out, and the agent would have to violate ethics of full disclosure to write the policy (assuming the owner did not have a legitimate US residence).

If the boat is owned by an LLC, and the LLC is purchased by the non-resident, the above doesn't apply, as the LLC remains a US based entity.
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Old 12-21-2013, 10:01 AM   #12
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Underwriting guidelines require a US address; some also require a US driver's license (but that is an easy one to discuss with underwriters).

Ideally, the non-citizen has a valid US residence; the boat can be registered there. The problem lies when a P.O. Box is used as a residential address, or the address of a friend is used as the residence- and the agent is almost aware of the residential address being fraudulent.
As previously mentioned, open an LLC.

It's a relative no-brainer in Florida and takes all of a couple hours max on line. If you need help with it, shoot me a message and I will either assist you, or give you the name of my corporate attorney that did mine.

Use a FedEx/UPS store or an Executive Suite as the "physical address." Both are considered valid for the purpose of registering a business since you can receive mail, service of process (civil suits), and in the case of an Executive Suite, will likely have a live receptionist and a place where you could "meet clients" and hold meetings should the need exist.

When we first started our Marine Safety business, we were still looking for a home. Not wanting to use a personal home address, we used an Executive Suite. No issues at all. Cost will vary between $75/100.00/month MOL for a Suite, and around $25.00/$75.00/month for a UPS/FedEx number (in Central Florida). Your prices may vary a slightly.
One note on the UPS/FedEx numbers however. The USPS requires your to indicate on all mailings certain wording (IIRC it's PMB) to indicate that this address is a Postal mail Box and not a physical structure. In the event of an Executive Suite, this is NOT the case.

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The reason I said I wouldn't write the coverage; part of the interview process involves questions about residence and navigation territory. In that conversation, the truth about both would come out, and the agent would have to violate ethics of full disclosure to write the policy (assuming the owner did not have a legitimate US residence).

If the boat is owned by an LLC, and the LLC is purchased by the non-resident, the above doesn't apply, as the LLC remains a US based entity.
Exactly.
Get the LLC and you should be golden, and you don't have to lie to anyone.

Always best to be safe than sorry, and you never want to screw with your insurance. It can really bite you in the butt!

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Old 12-21-2013, 03:17 PM   #13
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Just remember there are reporting requirements and tax liabilities for LLCs that need to be looked at before it's totally a "no brainer"
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Old 12-21-2013, 03:35 PM   #14
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Just remember there are reporting requirements and tax liabilities for LLCs that need to be looked at before it's totally a "no brainer"
Very true my friend, and you are absolutely correct, but it's still pretty much a no brainer.

There is the quarterly tax reporting for the time the LLC is operational. If there's no income, then there are no payments. You have (IIRC-per my CPA), 4 years to show a profit. Otherwise, in the case of boats, you have a very expensive hobby. In the meantime, if the vessel is licensed through an LLC, make the business maritime related, and he may actually have the opportunity to write off a good portion of the purchase, accessories, fuel, et al, for the time he has the "business."

Once he arrives at his destination, transfer the boat from the LLC to himself via a lawful purchase. Pay the necessary taxes to his government, obtain insurance in his own country once the vessel is properly licensed there. Since "he" will no longer be subject to U.S. Law, close the LLC and be done with it. Or keep it open for a couple of years to prove you could not make a go of it, then close it.

It's really nothing more than a legal work-around to get him to his final destination. As my CPA says: "You don't screw with the IRS! Instead, you beat them into submission with their own laws"

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Old 12-21-2013, 07:16 PM   #15
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Can you help me to open a LLC company? I saw that you understand about
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Old 12-21-2013, 10:44 PM   #16
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Can you help me to open a LLC company? I saw that you understand about
I'll be happy to help you out.
Shoot me a PM and I'll give you my number.
I can walk you through it, or give you the name of my corporate attorney.
He's a pretty reasonable guy, loves boats, and is bi-lingual if that helps?

OD
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