Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 06-27-2014, 12:47 PM   #41
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,160
Hi Thomas:
Thanks for your reply. Complex legislation is never a simple trade.

There are many differing interests involved, different groups pushing for their interests, and it would be more correct to say that we won on some aspects of the bill and we lost on other aspects.

I tried to make clear that we continue the effort to improve the law. We are all volunteers. We invite you to help. I expect there will be discussions on the topic thru the summer and fall leading up to the next session. I'd be happy to bring you into the discussions.

Working together, we can try to make improvements.

- Steve

Steve Greaves
206-371-0486

From: Teseniar,Thomas A
Sent: 6/27/2014 8:21 AM
To: Steve Greaves; bob_ranzenbach@yahoo.com; paul.thorpe@comcast.net; Loyd Walker; barbara erickson
Cc: Doug; Charlie; quality.cabinets@outlook.com; Ronald Evans (ronevans61@hotmail.com); ronevans61@yahoo.com
Subject: RE: Moorage Taxes
Steve,

Thank you for your response. So am I to understand that RBAW agreed with the State with regards of additional burdens of record keeping by public and private marinas and private docks, in exchange for language regarding commercial vessels?

If this is true, then RBAW has supported a new requirements in the law which place recreational boaters owners, those who own docks and marinas in a very bad position, and the mandate from the state that private information must be gathered and maintained by these individuals. Not a good trade in my book and many who support you from the Columbia River area feel the same way.

Thomas Teseniar

A "Veteran" whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his/her life, wrote a blank check payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to, and including his/her life." That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today, who no longer understand that fact.
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you did not do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover" - Mark Twain
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
1988 M/Y Camargue Yacht Fisher
Alaskan Sea-Duction
MMSI: 338131469
Blog: http://alaskanseaduction.blogspot.com/
Alaskan Sea-Duction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 06:30 PM   #42
Guru
 
City: Hotel, CA
Country: Fried
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction View Post
There are a lot of Washingtonians that are crapping their drawers right now. Over half of the boats in a yacht club just up river from me have their boats registered in Oregon.
This is where a lot of these issues begin and end with me. How many of those Oregon registered boats are owned by Oregon residents? California had a bit of a house cleaning several years back with motor vehicles. Seemed odd how many Oregon and Nevada license plates you would see commuting to work in the middle and coastal areas of California. The state DMV gathered records from Oregon and Nevada that included California mailing addresses and started tracking registered owners down. The out of state plates suddenly started disappearing from daily commuter traffic for some odd reason???
__________________

__________________
Craig

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 09:27 PM   #43
Guru
 
Edelweiss's Avatar
 
City: PNW
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 1976 Californian Tricabin LRC
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,834
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPseudonym View Post
The state DMV gathered records from Oregon and Nevada that included California mailing addresses and started tracking registered owners down. The out of state plates suddenly started disappearing from daily commuter traffic for some odd reason???
It has become much easier to obtain that information. Now that all the States and Canada have computerized interlinked license data bases, it's very simple. Vehicle/Boat/Aircraft Registration, title and drivers license information can be obtained by authorities in seconds by direct computer inquiry. But it still takes a fraud investigator time to draw all the information together and make a case against a violator. Department of Revenue has a substantial work force who do nothing but track and investigate fraud. A sad state of affairs!!
__________________
Larry B
Careful . . .I Have a Generator and I'm not afraid to use it !
Edelweiss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 10:46 PM   #44
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,724
Ron wrote;
"I'm with you on the burden placed on marinas and yacht clubs"
The marinas won't suffer at all. They will just include it in the next rate hike to tenants.

Just like medicine and other things. Responsible people pay and irresponsible people laugh on their way to the next freebie .. on us.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 04:18 PM   #45
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,160
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPseudonym View Post
This is where a lot of these issues begin and end with me. How many of those Oregon registered boats are owned by Oregon residents? California had a bit of a house cleaning several years back with motor vehicles. Seemed odd how many Oregon and Nevada license plates you would see commuting to work in the middle and coastal areas of California. The state DMV gathered records from Oregon and Nevada that included California mailing addresses and started tracking registered owners down. The out of state plates suddenly started disappearing from daily commuter traffic for some odd reason???
You are right. Some of these folks are taking their boat back to Oregon, thus the WA marinas will be loosing revenue. Problem is OR sometimes follows WA, so I would not be surprised if OR implements a similar policy.
__________________
1988 M/Y Camargue Yacht Fisher
Alaskan Sea-Duction
MMSI: 338131469
Blog: http://alaskanseaduction.blogspot.com/
Alaskan Sea-Duction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 04:27 PM   #46
Senior Member
 
Boydski's Avatar
 
City: Olympia, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Sea Eagle
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 47
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 201
I received a letter from my marina yesterday asking for all the "required" information along with a form to fill out. They included a copy of the original letter from Dept. of Revenue and Licensing outlining what is required.

Oh Joy, more paperwork to fill out....
__________________
Scott (Boydski) Boyd
Yes Please, Grand Banks Eastbay
Sea Eagle, Nordhavn 47 (sold)
Boydski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 04:31 PM   #47
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boydski View Post
I received a letter from my marina yesterday asking for all the "required" information along with a form to fill out. They included a copy of the original letter from Dept. of Revenue and Licensing outlining what is required.

Oh Joy, more paperwork to fill out....
So what happens if you refuse to fill out the paperwork?
__________________
1988 M/Y Camargue Yacht Fisher
Alaskan Sea-Duction
MMSI: 338131469
Blog: http://alaskanseaduction.blogspot.com/
Alaskan Sea-Duction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 04:49 PM   #48
Senior Member
 
Boydski's Avatar
 
City: Olympia, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Sea Eagle
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 47
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction View Post
So what happens if you refuse to fill out the paperwork?
I'm not sure, but I'm heading north in the morning, so I'm going to be VERY late with my paperwork.... Darn It!
__________________
Scott (Boydski) Boyd
Yes Please, Grand Banks Eastbay
Sea Eagle, Nordhavn 47 (sold)
Boydski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 04:53 PM   #49
Guru
 
Mule's Avatar
 
City: Fort Pierce
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Florita Ann
Vessel Model: 1982 Present
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,790
State tax maximum??? How about, for once giving the little guy a break...just once...at the expense of the big guy... This is nothing for FL to brag about.....kindda like a man that deducted $77,000 for a dancing horse while spouting he paid 13.9% income tax.....BS...I have a bigger % bite than that on $77,000 a year as retired. Of course I am part of the 49% in America that no longer matters, 2 sons, both served, one killed while on active, Marine, me 2x Vietnam....we no longer count, me or my family. Do not lecture about states getting smart by letting fat cats slide.
Mule is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2014, 05:42 PM   #50
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,160
For those in Washington who are members of RBAW (Recreational Boating Association of Washington) will be holding a special meeting to deal with this issue. The meeting will be Friday, July 18 from 2-3:30 PM at the Seattle Yacht Club. If you want the information, send me a PM with your email address.
__________________
1988 M/Y Camargue Yacht Fisher
Alaskan Sea-Duction
MMSI: 338131469
Blog: http://alaskanseaduction.blogspot.com/
Alaskan Sea-Duction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2014, 11:02 AM   #51
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,160
Here is the email I sent to RBAW this morning. I plan to attend via conferance call. If you want to attend, PM me and I will send you the info.

Email:

Thank you Steve. I will plan to attend via conference call and will contact Barb. I did get your voice mail and apologize for not getting back to you as I have been extremely busy.

Just to be clear, I am not the commodore of the Longview Yacht Club. I have forwarded you email (and CC here) to Ken McAlister, who is the Commodore.

My personal position on this issue is that the State is now requiring yacht clubs, marinas and others, such as an owner of a private dock to report all boats at their docks. The State is wanting neighbor to report neighbor. It seems a little like Nazism of WWII. I f I own a dock (private) and have a friend bring his boat up this fall for fishing on the river, the State requires me to report my friend if his boat is at my dock longer than 30-days. This is a ridiculous requirement and a violation of personal rights. I feel RBAW should have been on the top of this from day one, not after the fact.

Again, thank you for yours and the boards consideration.

Thomas Teseniar

A "Veteran" whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his/her life, wrote a blank check payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to, and including his/her life." That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today, who no longer understand that fact.
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you did not do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover" - Mark Twain
__________________
1988 M/Y Camargue Yacht Fisher
Alaskan Sea-Duction
MMSI: 338131469
Blog: http://alaskanseaduction.blogspot.com/
Alaskan Sea-Duction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2014, 11:23 AM   #52
TF Site Team
 
Bay Pelican's Avatar
 
City: Chicago, IL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bay Pelican
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M View Post
Being a WA State resident for 28 years I can feel your pain but we have no income tax, no oil and some would say, questionable leadership. The sales tax is where the bite is. San Juan County is 8.1% and King County(Seattle) 9.5%.
Larry actually it sounds great, but then I am from Illinois, income tax, 9.75% sales tax, very high property tax, etc. but clearly no one uses the word "questionalbe" to describe our leadership.
__________________
Marty
Bay Pelican is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 07:31 AM   #53
Senior Member
 
City: Sausalito CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: GRACE
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 46 EU
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 139
And be thankful you're not in CA where you have the joy of paying the state 1 percent of the boat value every year!
__________________
Dawdler
Dawdler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 09:25 AM   #54
Veteran Member
 
JNandJN's Avatar
 
City: Green Cove Springs, FL
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Sea Gypsy II
Vessel Model: 2007 Great Harbour N37
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 45
If one reads the post from GFC you can see that this legislation appears to be designed to prevent derelict vessels. As a boating community we need to encourage responsible boat ownership amongst ourselves. If we don't police ourselves, the government will do it for us. We suggest that anyone who who has issues with legislation join BOATUS (Boat Owners Association of the United States) if they are not already a member. They do a wonderful job of representing responsible boat owners.
JNandJN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 02:41 PM   #55
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,160
Thought I would complete this thread.

Well the meeting happened this past Friday. The meeting was specifically about section 501 of the law. This is the reporting part.

The board of Directors for RBAW invited the Washington State Department of Revenue and Department of Compliance. Most everyone that had attended by phone was against section 501 and had nothing to do with derelict vessels. In fact there were marina owners that were just plain angry.

The state folks acknowledged that this was a move to get money into the general fund by requiring marina owners and yacht clubs to create records and placing enforcement on their shoulders. They had a "don't care attitude."

One of the board members stated that from what he could tell most to all of the members that have attended the meeting were against section 501. Another board member stated there were plenty of folks for section 501 such as the Seattle Yacht Club, City of Seattle etc. However he was set straight by the first board member by stating this folks were not due paying members of RBAW. (I am).

A motion was made to neither support 501 nor opposed it. A vote was held and it was 14 in support and 1 vote against. So no action. King County (Seattle) rules again and those like us along the Columbia River are irrelevant and RBAW takes the easy way out. Many of us along the river are now considering if we want to support such an organization.
__________________
1988 M/Y Camargue Yacht Fisher
Alaskan Sea-Duction
MMSI: 338131469
Blog: http://alaskanseaduction.blogspot.com/
Alaskan Sea-Duction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2014, 11:46 AM   #56
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,160
Meeting Minutes:


RECREATIONAL BOATING ASSOCIATION OF WASHINGTON

The Voice of Northwest Boating

Minutes of the Special Meeting of the Board of Directors

Thursday, 18 July 2014

Commodore Room, Seattle Yacht Club

The 18 July 2014 Special Meeting of the Recreational Boating Association of Washington Board of Directors was convened at 1403 by Steve Greaves, President, followed by an explanation of the purpose of the meeting and a review of the proxies returned to the Secretary. A quorum was present. Bob Ranzenbach and Barbara Erickson were acknowledged for their efforts in setting up the meeting. Self-introductions of attendees and a thank you from Steve to all who were present was given. The following Officers, Directors, Delegates and guests were present or on the conference call. Onsite:

Steve Greaves President RBAW
Bob Ranzenbach 1st Vice President Seattle YC
Paul Thorpe 2nd Vice President Gig Harbor YC
Barbara Erickson Secretary RBAW
Loyd Walker Treasurer Port Orchard YC
Bill Field Director RBAW/Queen City YC
Bernie Hedeen Director RBAW
Doug Levy Lobbyist
Cal Coie Delegate Clover Island YC
Mary Coie Member Clover Island YC
Stan Harris Department of Revenue (DOR)
Beau Perschbacher Department of Revenue (DOR)

In Conference:

Drew Erickson Director Tyee YC
Bob Fisher Director Queen City YC and Navy YC, Everett
Mary Nye Meyers Director Corinthian YC
Bob Wise Director Tyee YC
Ron Evans Longview YC
Ken McAlister Longview YC
Thomas Teseniar Longview YC 2

Proxies received from and given to:
John Sipkens Director, Navy YC Everett to Bill Fields;
David Kutz Director Emeritus, Kingston Cove YC to Secretary;
Donald Howell Director, Tyee YC to Secretary;
Wayne Gilham Director, Gig Harbor YC to Paul Thorpe;
John Dawson Director, Tacoma YC, Carver Cruisers to Bob Ranzenbach;
Gary Ritzman Director, Meydenbauer Bay YC to Secretary;
Robert Murphy Immediate Past President, to Secretary;
Chuck Gay Director, Day Island YC to Secretary;
Gus Decock, Director, Meydenbauer Bay YC to Secretary.

Excused:

Ray DeBuhr, Dolphin YC, Ron Barrow, Navy Yacht Club Everett, Phil Osterli, Poulsbo YC and
Bob Wheeler, Bremerton YC

Topic on hand: Discussion of Section 501 of the 2014 Derelict Vessel law (SSHB 2457) and should the Board develop a policy position concerning Section 501. Steve Greaves began the discussion by setting ground rules. The meeting is a Special Meeting of the RBAW Board. Guests are invited to participate. The Board wants to hear from the membership. The plan is to attempt to hold the meeting to the scheduled 1 hour and 30 minutes.
Doug Levy suggested that the initial discussion be limited to what the law says, what is intended, and how the law is being implemented with discussion of possible future changes to be held until later in the meeting.

Beau Perschbacher, DOR, began with a general description of Section 501 and its implementation. There are three parts to this section: (1) pertains to the collection of certain information about vessels in long term moorage by the moorage provider; (2) pertains to requirements to provide information about registration requirements and tax requirements as part of long term moorage agreements for vessels not registered in the State; and (3) pertains to maintaining of these records by the moorage provider for at least two years, and provides for the records and the facility to be inspected by the State.
Stan Harris, DOR Compliance, described that DOR desires a good working relationship with marinas, and their intent is not to disrupt that relationship. They will be instituting one point of contact for all the written requests in Section 501, although very few requests are anticipated due to manpower shortages.
Longview YC members identified a variety of concerns.

 Privacy concerns about data falling into the wrong hands. DOR responded that they have experience in handling confidential information and the same standards will be applied.

 Concerns about volunteers at yacht clubs becoming ďagents for the StateĒ and intrusion on private property. DOR responded that DOR could request an audit of records before Section 501 for businesses in the State. For ease of collection, it was suggested that some of the requested data could be incorporated into the moorage agreement.

Clover Island YC members asked about boat houses. If DOR can walk the docks, do they have authority to inspect inside boathouses? DOR responded they did not. 3

MOTION was made for the RBAW Board not to take a policy position on Section 501. Bob Ranzenbach/Paul Thorpe.
Discussion of the motion included:
 Vessel registrations have declined in the past four years.
 Many moorage owners already collect much of the required information.
 Commercial marina operators may have concerns thus there may be an opportunity to work with Northwest Marine Trade Association to further review Section 501 this coming Fall.

After discussion of the motion the vote was taken. Motion passed: 14 Yes, 1 No.

Stan Harris provided his contact information in the event issues arose with any Section 501 requests --- email: stanh@dor.wa.gov and direct line: 360.704.5816.

Longview YC members thanked the Board for the opportunity to voice their concerns.

The President thanked all attendees for their time and their work on boating issues.

Meeting was adjourned at 1525.
Respectfully submitted,
Barbara J. Erickson Minutes Approved: ____________
Secretary
__________________
1988 M/Y Camargue Yacht Fisher
Alaskan Sea-Duction
MMSI: 338131469
Blog: http://alaskanseaduction.blogspot.com/
Alaskan Sea-Duction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2014, 03:24 PM   #57
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawdler View Post
And be thankful you're not in CA where you have the joy of paying the state 1 percent of the boat value every year!
The tax rate varies by county. For instance, in Solano County the rate is 1.16% and others have rates approaching 1.5%. Also, the county charges annual property taxes at the same rate on the value of the berth rented from the city. ... Annually, the marina asks for a copy of the boat's insurance as well as the boat's documentation/registration.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2014, 03:41 PM   #58
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,183
Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
The tax rate varies by county. For instance, in Solano County the rate is 1.16% and others have rates approaching 1.5%. Also, the county charges annual property taxes at the same rate on the value of the berth rented from the city. ... Annually, the marina asks for a copy of the boat's insurance as well as the boat's documentation/registration.
I sure am glad I live in a state with no property taxes on boats.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2014, 04:01 PM   #59
Guru
 
River Cruiser's Avatar
 
City: UMR MM283
Country: US
Vessel Name: Northern Lights II
Vessel Model: Bayliner 3870
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
I sure am glad I live in a state with no property taxes on boats.
One of the reasons I left the boat on the river and slipped in a marina in Illinois.
__________________

__________________
Ron on Northern Lights II
I don't like making plans for the day because the word "premeditated" gets thrown around in the courtroom.
River Cruiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012