Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-15-2015, 06:00 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
cool beans's Avatar
 
City: Norfolk, VA
Vessel Model: Bayliner 3870
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 308
Going to look at 2 boats. . .how do you figure what a fair offer is?

Saturday morning, going to look at these 2:

1978 Marine Trader 40 Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

1981 Albin 36 Trawler Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

I'm looking to live aboard at least 4-5 years then decide if I want to continue doing so or move back on land and put down some roots. Currently living aboard my 33ft sailboat for over 2 years now.

I'm excited to look at the Albin. Looks to have been, at least better than the other 10 boats I've looked at, taken care of and updated some. Only worry I have is it might be too small. . .

The MT 40 is, well. . .just that much bigger and I'm curious. It looks like the opposite of the Albin as far as care and updating. . .but if it could be had for a good price, it might be worth it?

Both look like they have leaked in the past. I'm aware of the decks, windows, and iron tanks. I'll go over them both carefully before paying someone else too. . .I've also come to accept the type of boat I want, with my lower end budget, is going to require some amount of work to be done.

If the either of them pass the "ass test", I might consider making an offer. Just how do you determine what a good offer is? Automatically Knock off 20% and see if they go for it? Is there a general base value for boats like these (or any boat)? I've been given the advice before to subtract out cost of repairs/upgrades, but sometimes I come back with them owing ME money

I imagine there is a base value for a type of boat that isn't a total wreck. . .

Any and all advice is welcome and appreciated!
cool beans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2015, 06:33 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
City: Bohemia
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 140
This only my opinion. Everyone has an opinion, right? I would find out how long it's been on the market. Some boats have been for sale for 2 years. The 20% rule is a good base. A boat in good shape, on the market a few months will say no. Maybe they come up with a counter offer? A boat in bad shape on the market for 2 years, I would go 40%. Why not? There are plenty of boats out there.
chester613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2015, 06:36 PM   #3
Guru
 
Phil Fill's Avatar
 
City: Everett Wa
Vessel Name: Eagle
Vessel Model: Roughwater 58 pilot house
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,919
Before you make an offer have the boat surveyed and they will give you a condition of the boat and a value.
Phil Fill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2015, 06:37 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
City: southern California
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by cool beans View Post
Saturday morning, going to look at these 2:

1978 Marine Trader 40 Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

1981 Albin 36 Trawler Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

I'm looking to live aboard at least 4-5 years then decide if I want to continue doing so or move back on land and put down some roots. Currently living aboard my 33ft sailboat for over 2 years now.

I'm excited to look at the Albin. Looks to have been, at least better than the other 10 boats I've looked at, taken care of and updated some. Only worry I have is it might be too small. . .

The MT 40 is, well. . .just that much bigger and I'm curious. It looks like the opposite of the Albin as far as care and updating. . .but if it could be had for a good price, it might be worth it?

Both look like they have leaked in the past. I'm aware of the decks, windows, and iron tanks. I'll go over them both carefully before paying someone else too. . .I've also come to accept the type of boat I want, with my lower end budget, is going to require some amount of work to be done.

If the either of them pass the "ass test", I might consider making an offer. Just how do you determine what a good offer is? Automatically Knock off 20% and see if they go for it? Is there a general base value for boats like these (or any boat)? I've been given the advice before to subtract out cost of repairs/upgrades, but sometimes I come back with them owing ME money

I imagine there is a base value for a type of boat that isn't a total wreck. . .

Any and all advice is welcome and appreciated!
I got some very good advice when I was looking for our last sailboat. The question was "Are you looking for a deal, or a boat? Those are two very different things."

First time around I was looking for a deal. Found one too. Second time around I was looking for a boat. Same for this third and latest time. The wife and I have been much happier with our good boat than our good deal. It was just as much work with a lot fewer surprises.

I had fun and learned a lot both ways.

If all else fails, employ a buyer's broker you trust. They'll have access to soldboats.com. It's not perfect, but comps are probably the closest objective data for valuation. The issue is that it's almost impossible to get a true comparable boat because they're so condition dependent.
questionmark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2015, 06:53 PM   #5
Guru
 
Heron's Avatar
 
City: Cypress Landing Marina (NC)
Vessel Name: Heron (2)
Vessel Model: '88 Cape Dory 28 Flybridge #115
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,305
Quote:
Originally Posted by questionmark View Post
I got some very good advice when I was looking for our last sailboat. The question was "Are you looking for a deal, or a boat? Those are two very different things."

Excellent advice....
__________________
Steve
Heron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2015, 07:36 PM   #6
Moderator Emeritus
 
ksanders's Avatar
 
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Vessel Name: DOS PECES
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,266
You want to pay as little as possible for the boat. You don't know the owner you're never going to know the owner you don't have to be friends.

What you want to do is offer as little as possible to keep the owner at the negotiating table. If you offer anything more than that you're just giving away your money.

Study the owner. How much can he sell the boat for? He cannot sell the boat for less than he can sell it for.

How long has the boat been on the market? These are all very important things to know and can influence how much you offer, or how much less than the asking price you offer.
__________________
Kevin Sanders
Bayliner 4788 Dos Peces
Seward, Alaska - La Paz, Baja California Sur
https://maps.findmespot.com/s/XLJZ#history/assets
ksanders is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2015, 08:16 PM   #7
Guru
 
Blissboat's Avatar
 
City: Jacksonville Beach, FL
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,252
Good luck and have fun on Saturday, Cool Beans. That Albin doesn't look half bad, for the money.

As to pricing, if you feel like the asking price is reasonable, you could offer to pay that or somewhere close to it, but contingent on a satisfactory survey and sea trial. That way you have an exit door if the boat has needs you don't care to pay for. Alternatively, you can propose that the seller make a price concession based on some estimates to address those needs.

If you've been accustomed to living aboard a 33' sailboat, a 36' motor vessel would probably seem relatively spacious - at least for a while. Possessions have a way of expanding to fill the space available!
Blissboat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2015, 08:24 PM   #8
Guru
 
City: Here
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,940
Find a surveyor who has access to soldboats.com and he can show you the actul sales data on virtually any model
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2015, 08:32 PM   #9
Guru
 
JDCAVE's Avatar
 
City: North Vancouver
Vessel Name: Phoenix Hunter
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 (1985)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,877
Going to look at 2 boats. . .how do you figure what a fair offer is?

All of the above...

...but ask yourself "what is this boat worth to you?" The answer to that question should influence your decision.

Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum
JDCAVE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2015, 08:04 AM   #10
Newbie
 
City: Deale, MD
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 1
I am also going through the same process you are (moving up). Have just listed my 38' Chris Craft Corinthian that would suit your needs completely. Tons of living and storage space. Have owned her for the past nine years with many upgrades. Mechanically & cosmetically, you will say "wow".


Integrity Yacht Sales (Deale, MD)=
Bay Bum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2015, 08:51 AM   #11
KMA
Senior Member
 
City: Merritt Island
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 468
Soldboats.com data is only as valid as what the selling brokers enter. In a perfect world, they would always enter the actual selling price. It's not a perfect world, but it is a place to start. A surveyor can sometimes get this data for you, but a "Buyer's Broker" can, too. IMHO, the Buyer's Broker is the place to start. We have received soldboats data on a couple of boat's we're inspecting this weekend, and prices are all over the map, varying by as much as 25% within one model year and one year from sale date.

Get the comps, inspect the boat yourself, and make your offer with the survey/sea trial contingencies. As has already been stated, after the survey/sea trial, you can adjust your offer or walk away. Hopefully your broker will assist you in developing a fair offer.

Are you looking for a deal, or a boat? Me? I'm looking for both. It's a business transaction. Try to keep emotion out of it... as difficult as that can be when "The One" appears on the radar.
KMA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2015, 09:36 AM   #12
TF Site Team/Forum Founder
 
Baker's Avatar
 
City: League City, Tx
Vessel Name: Floatsome & Jetsome
Vessel Model: Meridian 411
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Fill View Post
Before you make an offer have the boat surveyed and they will give you a condition of the boat and a value.
Usually you make the offer and THEN you do a survery.

Haven't seen you in a while, PF....good to see you around!!!!
__________________
Prairie 29...Perkins 4236...Sold
Mainship Pilot 30...Yanmar 4LHA-STP...Sold
Carver 356...T-Cummins 330B...Sold
Meridian 411...T-Cummins 450C
Baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2015, 11:30 AM   #13
Veteran Member
 
City: Fl
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 58
Throw a number like $30,000 out there and see what the reaction is.

They'll tell you what there real bottom is,
Jimbo2015 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2015, 12:49 PM   #14
TF Site Team
 
Bacchus's Avatar
 
City: Seneca Lake NY
Vessel Name: Bacchus
Vessel Model: MS 34 HT Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,826
I used a buyer broker for our current boat and strongly second the previous suggestions to go this way.
I think the buyer broker can sometimes gather intelligence re the buyers situation and what they will / won't accept and they can sometimes get access to prior sales data. I let my broker handle the negotiations with my inputs & upper limit and he negotiated a price below what I was willing to pay. Including all the contingencies mentioned by others.

One question I always look to get answered is "why is the seller looking to sell"? You don't always get the truth but it can sometimes give you useful info for negotiations. I also want to know how long it's been on the market.
Knowledge is power in negotiations and I've been surprised at owners that tell you stuff that helps you... don't be afraid to ask and ask again to see if answers are consistent or they "forgot" some of the story???

Good Luck
__________________
Don
2008 MS 34 HT Trawler
"Bacchus"
Bacchus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2015, 04:08 PM   #15
Moderator Emeritus
 
ksanders's Avatar
 
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Vessel Name: DOS PECES
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,266
Information is key, I always look up the seller, find out what I can learn about him, and his or her situation.
__________________
Kevin Sanders
Bayliner 4788 Dos Peces
Seward, Alaska - La Paz, Baja California Sur
https://maps.findmespot.com/s/XLJZ#history/assets
ksanders is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2015, 06:37 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
cool beans's Avatar
 
City: Norfolk, VA
Vessel Model: Bayliner 3870
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 308
I always get the "keep the emotion out of it advice" which I might not understand. . .there has to be a "Darling!" moment, right?

I mean, I've looked at 10 boats so far. 4 were turds, 6 were everything I was looking for in one way or another. . .but were "meh". . .they did nothing for me.

Maybe, well. . .it broke my heart to have to walk away from one of the turds. I guess I was able to stifle the emotion and keep myself from buying a nightmare project, lol.


The sellers broker is the one I made contact with (yacht broker), how do I get a hold of the seller?

Am I looking for a Deal, or a Boat?
. . .I'm looking for both! But I've also been on a Snipe hunt, so. . .

Would prefer "Boat" that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. But I would jump on a "Deal" that truly only needed TLC. The Albin does look to be more of a "Boat".

Blissboat, the room in my Ranger33 is probably equivalent to a Catalina 27, lol. The Albin should be cavernous in theory, but when I start looking. . .it's easy to start eyeballing bigger and bigger. Especially when you can add years to a financing loan (probably not the nest idea).

I appreciate yalls advice! I let you know what I discover tomorrow!
cool beans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2015, 07:02 PM   #17
Guru
 
Xsbank's Avatar
 
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,791
I got a third off asking for my boat and still, after an excellent survey, I paid 10,000 too much. There is always something you either think is not important or you just completely miss that will bite you later so start




low.

My friend (I know, its surprising, but I have a few) paid 130,000 for a boat that was asking 299,000. It smelled like sewage and so it sat there for 6 months. He put in a low offer and it was accepted. He had to replace the holding tank and it took about three gallons of bleach and a bottle of Vicks and he basically stole it.

Also, don't be fooled by lists that are largely maintenance - its good that the maintenance is done but "new washers in the tap" is a huge difference from "new taps."


Start low.
__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
Xsbank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2015, 11:54 PM   #18
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 9,046
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDCAVE View Post
All of the above...

...but ask yourself "what is this boat worth to you?" The answer to that question should influence your decision.
This is the best advice. Purchasing a boat is not a competitive event. Figure out how much the boat is worth to you. If you can get the boat for that price, it is a good deal.
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2015, 02:42 PM   #19
Newbie
 
City: Virginia Beach
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by cool beans View Post
I always get the "keep the emotion out of it advice" which I might not understand. . .there has to be a "Darling!" moment, right?

I mean, I've looked at 10 boats so far. 4 were turds, 6 were everything I was looking for in one way or another. . .but were "meh". . .they did nothing for me.

Maybe, well. . .it broke my heart to have to walk away from one of the turds. I guess I was able to stifle the emotion and keep myself from buying a nightmare project, lol.


The sellers broker is the one I made contact with (yacht broker), how do I get a hold of the seller?

Am I looking for a Deal, or a Boat?
. . .I'm looking for both! But I've also been on a Snipe hunt, so. . .

Would prefer "Boat" that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. But I would jump on a "Deal" that truly only needed TLC. The Albin does look to be more of a "Boat".

Blissboat, the room in my Ranger33 is probably equivalent to a Catalina 27, lol. The Albin should be cavernous in theory, but when I start looking. . .it's easy to start eyeballing bigger and bigger. Especially when you can add years to a financing loan (probably not the nest idea).

I appreciate yalls advice! I let you know what I discover tomorrow!
cool beans
looking forward to hear about your visit
do you live in tidewater?
Dmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2015, 05:32 PM   #20
Guru
 
ranger58sb's Avatar
 
City: Annapolis
Vessel Name: Ranger
Vessel Model: 58' Sedan Bridge
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7,087
Quote:
Originally Posted by cool beans View Post
Maybe, well. . .it broke my heart to have to walk away from one of the turds. I guess I was able to stifle the emotion and keep myself from buying a nightmare project, lol.

You might examine that some more. Why was it a turd? Why did you like it anyway? Are there more like it, without the turd-hood-ness factor?

Or do you mean it was just a great deal, not a boat you actually craved?

-Chris
__________________
Chesapeake Bay, USA
ranger58sb is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012