Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-15-2017, 01:02 PM   #21
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 12,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor of Fortune View Post
Its not a scam but it is VERY misleading. That is a documentation service that is trying to look like the CG site and get people to renew through them for an up charge. Not illegal, but unethical in my book.
Actually, I think it would be illegal, just like ones we've seen before on Social Security and other government offices. If an attorney general were to prosecute, I think a cease and desist could be obtained easily. Or if the CG pressed charges. They just get by with it as long as they can and once stopped, if ever stopped, they go as close to the new line drawn in the sand as they can.
__________________
Advertisement

BandB is online now  
Old 02-16-2017, 08:11 AM   #22
Guru
 
Sailor of Fortune's Avatar
 
City: Saint Augustine, Fl.
Country: Port of St Augustine ,FL
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,858
This quote is from another forum that I frequent, same slimy Documentation service.
"I also dropped a note to the contact us link on US documentation indicating I had cancelled my transaction and reported it as a fraudulent website.

As a result I got a series of abusive and threatening responses back from the owner of the site,who as it turns out is a west coast surveyor with no affiliation to USCG and who recently started the company.

I would stay far away form this site, the responses I got were pretty scary, I would not trust this site with my CC credentials..." Scumbag!
__________________

Sailor of Fortune is online now  
Old 02-16-2017, 08:41 AM   #23
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,841
All in all:

As long as the scum bag (a person "legally" leading people on) does not say something "legally" incorrect or take actions "legally" incorrect for getting people to renew registration through their "service" then there is little legal basis to get "legal" actions taken against them. In reality - It is simply a service/scam (an expensive one at that) to help get your boat registered... nothing more nothing less. It is up to a boat owner weather or not to utilize that service for their boat registration. If the s-bag running that site has good enough legal counsel that crossed the t's and dotted the i's so there is no "legal" infringement... then the term "Buyer Beware" comes into play!

There are automobile s-bag companies too that play heavily into vehicle registration "assistance" for seniors that do not understand the ins and outs of BULLSHITT!!

These registration "services" are often reprehensible in how they "trick" innocent product owners to pay them for doing what the owner themselves could easily accomplish at fraction of their cost. However, in the large part the services are legal.
Art is offline  
Old 02-16-2017, 08:44 AM   #24
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,841
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
And in a few years you won't have that option as the cost of handling a check in total is about $10 versus a cost of handling electronic payments of about $1. As a business owner it costs us far more to handle checks than credit card payments. In business now, we process over 98% of all our payments electronically. Oh, and we do not pay any employees by check. I'm even old enough to remember when everyone had to run to the bank each pay day.
OOOO! so old!! LOL

Now you are beginning to date yourself. This factor will increase as age gains its lever on ya!

Art is offline  
Old 02-16-2017, 10:54 AM   #25
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 12,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art View Post
These registration "services" are often reprehensible in how they "trick" innocent product owners to pay them for doing what the owner themselves could easily accomplish at fraction of their cost. However, in the large part the services are legal.
Actually I've heard that argument many times but in doing things to make it appear they are a government agency, which clearly they do, they cross into a zone that has often been found illegal. The problem is that it takes a lot of effort to prosecute and most states Attorney Generals and the US Attorney General have bigger things to deal with.

However, there's a better answer.

Sometimes the FTC, has stepped in. They can charge it as an "Unfair Business Practice" over which they do have responsibility and control. They typically react based on the number of complaints filed with them.

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.go...#crnt&panel1-1

Now, the typical agreement reached after the FTC takes action is requiring the company to note very clearly on all documents that they are not related to the government agency and not part of any government agency. Companies claiming to assist with social security have often been dealt with in this way as the volume of complaints is very high, but this documentation service wouldn't have the same level of complaints. I would encourage anyone to have been misled by them to file a complaint though with the FTC and also one with the attorney general of the state they're operating in.

It's deceptive advertising and the FTC is the way to go for action.
BandB is online now  
Old 02-16-2017, 11:59 AM   #26
Guru
 
HeadMistress's Avatar


 
City: AR
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,132
Instead I get a load of lies, especially the one where they claim 46 CFR 67.500(e) prevents them from refunding. I call them on this lie and he admits he is wrong but refuses to cancel and threatens me.

Apparently they don't think anyone is smart enough to find and read the CFR or know what it means if they do:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/46/part-67

I received a couple threating e mails from him and his high priced LA lawyer insisting that I retract my statements or he will take all my property and possessions.

Anyone can call him/herself a lawyer, even create a letterhead or add his name to a real law firm's letterhead with a little creative use of a scanner and just about any word processing software...are you sure his "high priced" LA lawyer really is one?

Since this guy is (allegedly) a marine surveyor, might be worth the effort to find out whether he's accredited by SAMS, NAMS (which, btw, doesn't allow its accredited members to engage in any other marine related business for profit) or any other relevant organization. Whether he is or not, I suspect they'd be very interested in knowing his business practices cuz it's highly unlikely that he's any more ethical as a surveyor.

And finally...have you reached out to the USCG doc center to let them know he's not posting the required disclaimer on his material?
__________________
© 2017 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since '87.
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
HeadMistress is offline  
Old 02-16-2017, 03:54 PM   #27
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,600
John Soria is on LinkedIn.
Northern Spy is offline  
Old 02-16-2017, 06:07 PM   #28
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta and SF Bay
Country: Sacramento, CA, USA (boat in Vallejo)
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,895
Is this his site?

Boat Surveyor and Marine Surveyor in Long Beach, Newport Beach and Dana Point | Accredited & Certified Marine Surveyors | Boat Surveys in Dana Point, Long Beach, Oceanside, Newport
__________________
Al

Custom Google Trawler Forum Search
FlyWright is online now  
Old 02-16-2017, 06:08 PM   #29
Guru
 
koliver's Avatar
 
City: Saltspring Island
Country: BC, canada
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,089
What exactly do you get for your "renewal"?
Seems to be just a money grab. Nothing has changed from your properly documented status of the previous year, so why do you need to renew?
In Canada, my documentation used to be good until I sell or notify the registry that I want to de-register. A few years ago they decided the registration has an expiry date, but so long as I send them back something that indicates the boat still exists, it automatically renews, with no fee.

If you don't register federally under the Canada Shipping Act (for a fee) you can license Provincially, for free. No renewals involved.

We also used to be required to annually renew a license for the VHF radio. About 10 years ago Transport Canada wisely decided that isn't necessary, thus eliminating another fee that wasn't enough to pay for the bureaucracy involved, but was enough to be irritating.
__________________
Keith
koliver is offline  
Old 02-16-2017, 06:41 PM   #30
Member
 
City: Midland, MI
Country: usa
Vessel Name: Pebbles
Vessel Model: Gulfstar 50 Sailboat
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 5
John Soria's marine service website

Yes Flywright,

That website is also John Soria's. It even has a link to the uscgdocumentation.us.

He makes a lot of claims about his credentials and his marine business.
sailerman is offline  
Old 02-16-2017, 06:47 PM   #31
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 12,231
That's him and is website there is equally interesting. A lot of Hyperbole and perhaps some exaggeration, free use of words like accredited, certified, and registered.
BandB is online now  
Old 02-16-2017, 06:58 PM   #32
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,352
My Google search popped up a lawsuit I think between him and his Web designer.

I didn't have time or really the interest to go further...there were more hits than the website and this case.

Would be interesting to see if there are any patterns.
psneeld is offline  
Old 02-16-2017, 07:51 PM   #33
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 12,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
My Google search popped up a lawsuit I think between him and his Web designer.

I didn't have time or really the interest to go further...there were more hits than the website and this case.

Would be interesting to see if there are any patterns.
I'll just say his resume and his web site don't fit together very well.
BandB is online now  
Old 02-16-2017, 09:02 PM   #34
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 12,231
There's more. He claims to be a registered, certified, and everything else surveyor, he's only listed as an associate. He claims to be able to move mountains and all the experience, but 2007-2011 FIT Mechanical Engineering, 2013-2015 Paralegal Degree from San Antonio, 2015-2018 California Maritime. Look at those dates carefully. Also, it's in Vallejo and his business in Long Beach. Long commute. His website tries much like his documentation site to give the impression of something big, but it's clearly not anything like it portrays.
BandB is online now  
Old 02-16-2017, 09:15 PM   #35
Senior Member
 
Spottsville's Avatar
 
City: Newburgh, Indiana
Country: US
Vessel Name: Quiet Company
Vessel Model: Great Harbour GH-47
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 220
I'll tell my story

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadMistress View Post
Instead I get a load of lies, especially the one where they claim 46 CFR 67.500(e) prevents them from refunding. I call them on this lie and he admits he is wrong but refuses to cancel and threatens me.

Apparently they don't think anyone is smart enough to find and read the CFR or know what it means if they do:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/46/part-67

I received a couple threating e mails from him and his high priced LA lawyer insisting that I retract my statements or he will take all my property and possessions.

Anyone can call him/herself a lawyer, even create a letterhead or add his name to a real law firm's letterhead with a little creative use of a scanner and just about any word processing software...are you sure his "high priced" LA lawyer really is one?

Since this guy is (allegedly) a marine surveyor, might be worth the effort to find out whether he's accredited by SAMS, NAMS (which, btw, doesn't allow its accredited members to engage in any other marine related business for profit) or any other relevant organization. Whether he is or not, I suspect they'd be very interested in knowing his business practices cuz it's highly unlikely that he's any more ethical as a surveyor.

And finally...have you reached out to the USCG doc center to let them know he's not posting the required disclaimer on his material?
I looked on the USCG doc website....no way I could see to reach a Rep?
Spottsville is offline  
Old 02-16-2017, 09:26 PM   #36
Member
 
City: Midland, MI
Country: usa
Vessel Name: Pebbles
Vessel Model: Gulfstar 50 Sailboat
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 5
A more recent 46 CFR 67.500 where part (d) became part (e)

46 CFR Sec. 67.500
TITLE 46--SHIPPING
CHAPTER I--COAST GUARD, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY
SUBCHAPTER G--DOCUMENTATION AND MEASUREMENT OF VESSELS
PART 67--DOCUMENTATION OF VESSELS
Subpart Y--Fees§67.500 Applicability.
(a) This subpart specifies documentation services provided for vessels for which fees are applicable. No documentation service for which a fee is applicable will be performed until the appropriate fee has been paid. Fees are contained in Table 67.550.
(b) There is no fee for the annual renewal of endorsements upon the Certificate of Documentation, unless renewal is late.
(c) There is no fee for replacement of a Certificate of Documentation due to a wrongful withholding.
(d) The Director, National Vessel Documentation Center may waive collection of fees applicable under this subpart for a service provided to a Federal agency when the fee would be directly paid with federally-appropriated funds by a Federal agency acting in its own behalf.
(e) Application fees under this subpart are not refundable
sailerman is offline  
Old 02-17-2017, 03:52 AM   #37
Guru
 
ulysses's Avatar
 
City: Gulf Shores, Ala.
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Ulysses
Vessel Model: Romsdal 1963
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 874
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spottsville View Post
I looked on the USCG doc website....no way I could see to reach a Rep?
https://www.uscg.mil/nvdc/nvdcpoc.asp
ulysses is offline  
Old 02-17-2017, 08:53 AM   #38
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,154
With our ongoing fascination of doing financial and purchasing things on the Internet a different set of BS filters is required. Crooks, thieves, charlatans and evil doers abound. Look no further than the thread regarding trashing the Cordero Lodge, the old fashioned muck abouts do still exist though.

Our increasing refusal to use the mails (egads, checks can be stolen) has led to a much higher loss ratio according to the FBI, via online theft and gouging. Same old thing, be a careful skeptic. Maybe this USCG document thread will lead to some problems for the "surveyor." Hope so.
sunchaser is offline  
Old 02-17-2017, 08:53 AM   #39
Senior Member
 
Tuttouomo's Avatar
 
City: PNW
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Lady A
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 105
Hey, isn't that Dhays boat's pic on his website? The one with it sitting high and dry by the PO ?

Bill
Tuttouomo is offline  
Old 02-17-2017, 08:55 AM   #40
Senior Member
 
Tuttouomo's Avatar
 
City: PNW
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Lady A
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 105
The caption says " salvage hard aground".
__________________

Tuttouomo is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
documentation, john soria, uscgdocumentation.us

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012