Documentation trouble

[BandB]

You only have a problem if you're traveling outside the country. Then you need to, and legitimately can, use the priority process of have a documentation agent use it for you. Even in the worst of times, it's typically within two weeks.

I don't look for the agency to ever catch up. It was years doing so before, then they reorganized and worked hard to do so and in one fell swoop they were shut down and put far behind while experiencing manpower cuts. I don't see either the incentive or the ability to do so again.

 

[ProMaritime]

Wayfarer, sounds like you are using an agent. I've done it both ways. The first was a French flag boat which we had to deflag and reflag US, normally not too complicated but the seller (Moorings) presented us with a handwritten bill-of-sail from one on their subsidiary companies in St. Martian and an unsigned Builders Certificate. To flag US you need, or should have a Bill-of-Sale on USCG Form 1340. I'm told that a Builder's Certificate is not necessary but the lack of one may prevent a boat from being redocumented to one of the commercial categories later. Not a big deal either except that its my view this may effect the future market value, so give me one. They did after they stopped crying and screaming.
The second one I did was already US flag so I did that one myself.

 

[Wayfarer]

Wayfarer, sounds like you are using an agent. I've done it both ways. The first was a French flag boat which we had to deflag and reflag US, normally not too complicated but the seller (Moorings) presented us with a handwritten bill-of-sail from one on their subsidiary companies in St. Martian (not sure if you did that on purpose or not, but either way, I really enjoyed it! lolol)and an unsigned Builders Certificate. To flag US you need, or should have a Bill-of-Sale on USCG Form 1340. I'm told that a Builder's Certificate is not necessary but the lack of one may prevent a boat from being redocumented to one of the commercial categories later. Not a big deal either except that its my view this may effect the future market value, so give me one. They did after they stopped crying and screaming.
The second one I did was already US flag so I did that one myself.

Yeah, it's a similar situation. The boat is currently Canadian flagged, and will need to be unflagged before it can be flagged US. The broker already has the Builder's Certificate, and he said he's done this whole operation many times before, which is reassuring. Between his experience and the doc service, things seem to be going in the right direction.

The one small exception so far is that my boat doesn't have a HIN. Apparently that was a common thing for one-off custom boats at that time, at least in Canada. It didn't raise any red flags with the surveyor or the bank, but the doc service says that it HAS to have one, so I guess I'll have to get one somehow. Doesn't sound like it'll be an issue, and should be something I can do after I take possession.

Sorry for any thread drift OP, I don't mean to steal your thunder!

 

[STB]

My boat was built without a HIN. Years ago the state of Florida issued a VIN which serves as the HIN, even for federal documentation purposes.

At first I didnt believe this story, so I did a FOIA request to the NVDC for the original builder's certificate. Where the HIN should have been was "#3", i.e. hull number vs hull identification number, which was apparently common practice for imports at the time.

At any rate, the state just issued a VIN, which the prior-prior-prior owner had permanently attached to the back of the house.

Cheers!
-Greg

 

[Capitaine R]

Got It

Our Documentation was finally in the mail box. Only took 8 months, not bad considering a gov shut down and two incorrect bill of sales. I also received the Abstract of Title which we requested. Come to find out Charlie Noble had two other names before this one. Now it is time to go see the Florida DMV and get her registered as an antique.

 

[markpierce]

Just received renewal notice from the USCG today. I'll not immediately take action because last time the renewal was only for 10 months. Hint: don't renew too early. ... Received renewal notice from a for-profit company several weeks ago. Ignored it totally.

 

[Voyager3]

Well then I guess we wait. We submitted last October, they had an issue and after research we found it and fixed it in June. They said they sent an email but we couldn’t find it. My only issue will be if required to pay again. Guess we will see. Thanks everyone!!

 

[George Maxwell]

I have had four documented vessels and always went to a marine qualified lawyer. Cost a few bucks, but has been worth it to me. You can do it your self but its confusing and not worth my time to relearn the often changing rules

 

[ProMaritime]

Roger that Mark Pierce. Same with passports, just renewed mine which doesn't expire until March 2020 but I am leaving the country in a couple of weeks and some airlines won't put you on the airplane without six months of unexpired time. And some countries won't let you in for the same reason.

Got the new passport but lost 5% of my money. So passports are good for ten years, yeah, right, as long as you don't go anywhere.

So don't pay anything before the month in which it expires, except maybe taxes.

 

[The Brockerts]

so....if you not leaving US waters, and you have no plans to do so, why would we bother with getting a Federally Documented Vessel given all this mess. And do you need a Federally Documented Vessel to leave US waters ? Shouldn't we just register it in our resident state and move on.


At his point what exactly does a Federally Documented Vessel give you ?



The Brockerts

 

[psneeld]

Usualy the biggie is financing larger vessels.

 

[Oldsarge]

In answer to your question.
If it is a pleasure vessel over 5 net tons and 26 feet it may not be a federal requirement to be registered. Commercial vessels over 5 net tons must be registered. Having said that, if you are contacted by the U.S. CG for any reason, and you are documented your relationship with the CG will be a lot smoother.
They have checked me out while motoring along on Lake Michigan.The first thing they wanted to know was if my boat had CG documentation. Even on the Great Lakes and inland waterways there are frequent air and water petrol's by the U.S. CG. They are very vigilant and looking out for your safety pretty much at all times, particularly when the weather may be iffy for your size boat.
Current cost is $26 a year and the document is updated every year.
It used to be free, but like everything else the price has gone up.
It also makes it easier to sell your boat if you get to that point, as the CG document is similar to a car title when it comes to ownership.

What is a Documented Vessel?

 

[psneeld]

I think there may be some discussion on whether it makes things easier with the USCG or when selling....I have never noticed a big difference....maybe a broker can fill in better.



The only time it is usually required, for many even desirable, is when trying to finance...many lenders require it.

 

[Billr2019]

documentation

The used Ranger Tug I purchased was documented and I want to continue that way.
I was told the Coast Guard would take a minimum of 5 months to get the completed paperwork to me.

 

[Pau Hana]

The used Ranger Tug I purchased was documented and I want to continue that way.
I was told the Coast Guard would take a minimum of 5 months to get the completed paperwork to me.

You can always call the NVDC (National Vessel Documentation Center) in Falling Waters, WV and inquire about the backlog.

Per this bulletin, initial recreational vessel currently being processed are from 21 May 2019.

https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/USDHSCG/bulletins/262eba1

 

[fgarriso]

"Vessel documentation is a national form of registration. It is one of the oldest functions of Government, dating back to the 11th Act of the First Congress. Documentation provides conclusive evidence of nationality for international purposes, provides for unhindered commerce between the states, and admits vessels to certain restricted trades, such as coastwise trade and the fisheries. Since 1920, vessel financing has been enhanced through the availability of preferred mortgages on documented vessels."

 

[rgano]

I carried it for many years on my larger vessel, but for this smaller, USA-only vessel, it made no sense to document it.

 

[tiltrider1]

If the boat has no mortgage and is never going beyond the USA or Canada then there is no benefit to being documented. If you plan to cruise further it’s best to be documented. Not all countries recognize state registrations and entry can be refused.

 

[Billr2019]

Thanks for all the info.
Bill

 

[markpierce]

If your state doesn't require registration of an USCG-documented vessel, I'd go documented and avoid those ugly bow-state-registration numbers. That's usual practice here in California. But one does have to have boat name and "home" port displayed and the documentation number permanently engraved in the boat's interior..

 

[Billr2019]

I can avoid the bow numbers but the annual state registration sticker must be displayed.
I have the name and hailing port on the boat already.
Thanks

 

[markpierce]

In less than a week of payment, my renewed USCG document was received.

 

[Billr2019]

That was pretty quick.
Bill

 

[psneeld]

Not really, mine too.If you have a history and just looking for renewal....quick.


Looking for initial or transfer....bigger deal to the people certifying that fact.

 

[ProMaritime]

Of course, you are talking about a RENEWAL, not about an original documentation. These take several months for a pleasure craft. Commercial (including fishing) vessels are much faster.

 

[Billr2019]

It is a transfer from the original owner to me.

 

[av8r]

Mailed a check for my renewal on Dec 21 2018. Oops, government shut down on Dec 22 thanks to Trump nonsense. Check was never cashed, renewal was never processed. Tried to renew via the online portal but was unable to since too long had passed. Had to file paper application, finally received Certificate of Documentation dated Sep. 13 2019. Plan on filing request to remove boat from documentation. I have to register boat in Washington State anyway (USCG requirement) so why pay for the aggravation?

 

[markpierce]

California boat registration fee is higher than USCG documentation. So, best to USCG document here with the added advantage of avoiding hull-mounted registration numbers announcing one is on the "B" team.

 

[Comodave]

California boat registration fee is higher than USCG documentation. So, best to USCG document here with the added advantage of avoiding hull-mounted registration numbers announcing one is on the "B" team.

And when we had a boat in CA and needed anything to do with the registration I had to make an appointment that was way out in the future. You couldn’t just walk in.

 

[ProMaritime]

You stated the registration with the State of Washington is a USCG requirement. This is not true. You may register with any state however this will invalidate your USCG documentation. You can't have both. You may retain your USCG documentation by notifying Washington State Dept. of Taxation of your boats presence in the state for personal property tax purposes. This does not constitute "state registration and you will not receive state numbers to display on the bow of the boat. You will receive some kind of decal or display to show state tax collectors, who prowl the marines and anchorages, that you are set up to the state taxes. In may opinion giving up or invalidating USCG documentation is really stupid.