Is it difficult to sell a steel boat?

[sunchaser]

The numbers of large steel yachts with curves galore is significant. A dock walk in a large yacht marina or page turning in a high end yachting magazine reveals plenty of steel yachts. But alas, few are Fe below say 120 feet. One of the exceptions is a steel plate vessel called Sonata, built in a smart fellows back yard in CA and cruised extensively in the PNW. It is a Bruce Roberts design and a look around will show many of these gorgeous vessels including a TF member.

I've a few friends with Buehler design steel vessels that are quite nice looking. Broward's Al yachts are curvaceous as well, both inside and out. Coastal Craft makes curvaceous Al vessels that many have thought to be FRP upon first sighting.

The models and makers of beautiful Al sport fishing boats in the PNW are too numerous to name. For many years several NZ yards have specialized in Al yachts,think Jeffrey Archer designs.

Of course how many Tuckers or Jaguars have you seen that are FRP. Look around, metal abounds.

 

[Art]

Smooth round bilges in 1/4" thick plate are perfectly possible. It requires a degree of skill which is not very common now days. But it can be done.
Without heat and without cutting the plate in numerous tiny pieces.
I hope the picture comes out.

WOW - I like her even more... Sexy Bottom on that Gal!

 

[Pack Mule]

Good looking boat Bryan. That starboard pic would make a nice avatar

 

[ulysses]

Round bottom and shapely stern.

 

[BandB]

I've a few friends with Buehler design steel vessels that are quite nice looking. Broward's Al yachts are curvaceous as well, both inside and out. Coastal Craft makes curvaceous Al vessels that many have thought to be FRP upon first sighting.

.

I find Coastal Craft most interesting as to an aluminum mid sized cruiser. I have tremendous respect for the designer, Greg Marshall. He's a Bill Garden Protege who has done a lot of work for Westport, has done some beautiful newer designs for Burger, which unfortunately they've never sold any of.

Coastal Craft's 40' has a top speed of 37 knots and gets 1 nmpg at it's cruise speed of 30 knots. At 7.5 knots it gets about 3 nmpg. Their 56' even cruises at 27-30 knots and has one of the most incredible flybridges I've seen. Then their 65' has won several awards, and rivals any boat in it's class styling wise. All their boats do use IPS. We were very tempted by their 65.

Here is the 40'.

 

[ulysses]

Ulysses is 52' or so, hull steel with Al house and I do not think there is a square spot on her. If you can frame it you can plate it. Detroit found that out over a hundred years ago, thus a new model every year with a slightly different flare or bend. And if Al did not bend readily they would make cans out of something else. Of course there is an art and craftsmanship involved in any construction medium. You will note that there are many square and chunky glass boats too probably for the same reasons costs and talent.

 

[Stout]

Bryan, cool looking boat! Are the pictures of your boat on the hard at the west DIY yard in Astoria?

 

[BryanF]

Yes we are on the hard in Astoria. Maybe floating before Christmas maybe not.

 

[Stout]

I thought the background looked familiar. Hope you can keep the sawdust out of any painting you be doing and your repairs go well. Maybe we will see each other on the Columbia when you are back in PDX?

 

[klee wyck]

The Dutch yacht builders sure seem to make rounded surfaces in steel and perhaps even with compound curves. I could not find a good picture of Klee Wycks bow but like FlorenceA she seems to have steel that curves horizontally in toward the fine entry and also vertically out from water line up. I think some of this is done by laying up strips of steel almost like planking but then faring to an art form.
Many of these boats built there under 100 feet and a search of steel hulls under 60 feet for sale will turn up many pages. It has been interesting to me to see so few steel pleasure boats here in the PNW and so many there with climate and cruising grounds not that different.
There is currently a Ukrainian built 50 foot steel hull for sale that I think is stunningly beautiful. I wish I could get her out of my head.

 

[BandB]

The Dutch yacht builders sure seem to make rounded surfaces in steel and perhaps even with compound curves. I could not find a good picture of Klee Wycks bow but like FlorenceA she seems to have steel that curves horizontally in toward the fine entry and also vertically out from water line up. I think some of this is done by laying up strips of steel almost like planking but then faring to an art form.
Many of these boats built there under 100 feet and a search of steel hulls under 60 feet for sale will turn up many pages. It has been interesting to me to see so few steel pleasure boats here in the PNW and so many there with climate and cruising grounds not that different.
There is currently a Ukrainian built 50 foot steel hull for sale that I think is stunningly beautiful. I wish I could get her out of my head.

You can't tell really from photos but Boatshed London has a 1962 42' Dutch steel trawler with twin Perkins that on the surface looks very nice and they have apparently cut the price and even have put it now up for auction. Bid starts at $45,000 but they seem willing to take offers too. In Europe they sell easier than in the US but still now well.

Far more steel commercial boats than recreational. Yet, some of the recreational ones are very nice.

Perhaps it's short sighted, but I really don't let resell enter into my boat purchasing decision much. I think one thing is that everyone swears their first, second, third, fourth, fifth are all their last. But I look at the entire price and will I get pleasure equal to what it costs me. Then when I do sell it, that's when I'll worry about the price. Part of it is I am not smart enough to predict the used boat market. It does strange things. For example, with Nordhavn. 43's could bring a premium as there are just no late models. With nearly all boats a 2009 and newer in good shape brings a good price and sells quickly, because sales of new were down so for those years. But then, back to Nordhavn. The exchange rate has just dramatically reduced their prices in US $. So suddenly, the price of a new one isn't nearly as much more than say a 2012 used. For the first time since 2008, they're seeing a swing back to more new boat sales as a percentage of their total. Meanwhile Nordhavn only shows 3 boats newer than 2010 for sale. But a couple of those did pay considerably more for their boats than you'd pay today to buy one.

Just too many factors and when one looks favorable, another hits you negatively.

 

[klee wyck]

B,
(you stated) You can't tell really from photos but Boatshed London has a 1962 42' Dutch steel trawler with twin Perkins that on the surface looks very nice and they have apparently cut the price and even have put it now up for auction. Bid starts at $45,000 but they seem willing to take offers too. In Europe they sell easier than in the US but still now well.


I am not sure I get your point here. What would be unusual about a 54 year old 42' boat selling (or not selling) for 45K? Would that boat sell better or for a higher price if it were frp or wood? A quick search suggests probably not?

I agree that resale value seems like it should perhaps not be the prime criteria when buying a boat but the reality is that the vast majority of us (certainly to include myself) are dreamers in terms of what we will do with a boat and how long we will do it. It would be fun to see what percentage of boats purchased are back up for sale within 5 years. My instinct would be more than half at least.
I am currently shopping for a boat to add to the fleet and would rather have a steel boat. As it happens, I only expect to own this boat I am shopping for for a few years while I work on a project some distance from Klee Wyck. I will likely buy an frp boat that I boarded this past weekend because it will sell better when I no longer need it in a few years. The boat I looked at was one of the most revered 42s in America. It struck me as I crawled around it how much less boat it felt like to me than the one I currently drive. I concluded that that feeling could just be my bias in that I could just never feel the same about an frp sandwich and interior workmanship typical of the region it was built in as I do about my current steel hull and interior workmanship. The North American market in general disagrees and for this particular purchase, I ignore that at my own peril. The great news is that it is still a great boat and I would surely love cruising it. If I expected to own it 'til death do us part, I would not be making an offer.

 

[BandB]

B,
(you stated) You can't tell really from photos but Boatshed London has a 1962 42' Dutch steel trawler with twin Perkins that on the surface looks very nice and they have apparently cut the price and even have put it now up for auction. Bid starts at $45,000 but they seem willing to take offers too. In Europe they sell easier than in the US but still now well.


I am not sure I get your point here. What would be unusual about a 54 year old 42' boat selling (or not selling) for 45K? Would that boat sell better or for a higher price if it were frp or wood? A quick search suggests probably not?

I agree that resale value seems like it should perhaps not be the prime criteria when buying a boat but the reality is that the vast majority of us (certainly to include myself) are dreamers in terms of what we will do with a boat and how long we will do it. It would be fun to see what percentage of boats purchased are back up for sale within 5 years. My instinct would be more than half at least.
I am currently shopping for a boat to add to the fleet and would rather have a steel boat. As it happens, I only expect to own this boat I am shopping for for a few years while I work on a project some distance from Klee Wyck. I will likely buy an frp boat that I boarded this past weekend because it will sell better when I no longer need it in a few years. The boat I looked at was one of the most revered 42s in America. It struck me as I crawled around it how much less boat it felt like to me than the one I currently drive.

The only point was they have struggled mightily to sell that boat. Perhaps not in the condition it appears. It's been sitting on land, on the market I believe, for two years.

I think all the statistics would be interesting including the 5 years you mention. I don't think half make it back to the market in 5 years but I think a tremendous percentage by 10. My guess would that half would be maybe 7 or 8 years or so. Now there are a good many put on the market almost immediately.

And, yes, I do believe the boat would sell better if it was glass. I think if it was wood though, it would have a far more difficult time selling. Most people are casual boaters, buying just to enjoy. Most don't do their own work on one. Also most don't really understand steel.

I think there are some great lines of steel boats.

As to getting struck by how much less boat one is, I've had that too. There are a lot of boats really designed for space and utility. Most steel boats are as they're not trying to cut weight or narrow the boat for speed and they're not trying to make it sleek and like a sportscar. Boat lengths are so misleading if one thinks they reflect size. We have a 63' Riva. 90% of the boats owned by people on this forum have more space than it. Space is the reason we wouldn't use it for a loop boat. But it's great if we want to get to Bimini in an hour and a half.

Personally, if I was looking for a "trawler" of the type many here have, and there were good choices in steel, I'd go for it. I think Bering has some nice offerings. Now, I'm not real sure about the company. The fact their headquarters and corporate office is in the owner's home in Raleigh, NC, I wonder a bit about. As I've mentioned before I think Coastal Craft makes a great aluminum boat.

Every boat is a compromise. Still, the average boat buyer is not going to consider steel. That's not what they're use to or like.

 

[klee wyck]

One thing about aluminum and steel boats, is that plate can be bent around one axis, it can be bent around another axis, but not both at the same time. Well it can, but it takes a hell of a lot of heat or force to do it. Very hard to make pleasant curves. With plate, you end up with slab sides and hard chines. To do curves, plate must be formed or contour cut and welded in thinner strips.

That's why lots of steel and al boats are a bit ugly. To make them pretty is not easy.

It was a beautiful crisp, clear, blue sky weekend on the Sound this weekend so we took Klee Wyck out for some exercise. We anchored her outside of Port Madison and took the tandem kayak for a tour around the port looking at the homes there. Upon the return to the mothership I snapped this photo and was reminded of this old thread which was published in between the purchase of my first and second steel boats.
As the project up North winds down its need for me to be present much, we are faced with the reality of probably only needing one of these two boats and I will have to agree with John on Ulysses: Yep, it will be real hard to sell one of these steel boats! I am quite fond of both and ugly is not a word that comes to mind for me......

 

[stuarth44]

I wonder how this will go over? Some see rust as an issue? I see a lot of rusty trollers at Fishermans terminal in Seattle.

Is it more difficult to sell steel vs wood vs plastic?

depends where and who built the vessel, the Dutch build wonderful steel craft and they hold there value
unless the boat has been prepped and painted to a high standard, she'll start to rust
that standard means, sandblast
75 dft of zinc or devoe 201, then 300 microns high build epoxy, then when the epoxy is still soft, antifoul, dft means dy film thickness
i have built and owned such but changed to unpainted alu
trouble is that in N.A most are built by amatuers, even so called pros, who are no more than an steel fabricating shop with a welder, think they can build in steel, they cannot, remember it is as easy to build a handsome vessel as a dog, it costs the same

 

[BandB]

depends where and who built the vessel, the Dutch build wonderful steel craft and they hold there value
unless the boat has been prepped and painted to a high standard, she'll start to rust
that standard means, sandblast
75 dft of zinc or devoe 201, then 300 microns high build epoxy, then when the epoxy is still soft, antifoul, dft means dy film thickness
i have built and owned such but changed to unpainted alu
trouble is that in N.A most are built by amatuers, even so called pros, who are no more than an steel fabricating shop with a welder, think they can build in steel, they cannot, remember it is as easy to build a handsome vessel as a dog, it costs the same

Depends on how maintained too. Even the best of Dutch builds can suffer. I talked to a broker who showed an older Feadship even after warning his client that it was not in good shape. After seeing it, the client said he wouldn't be interested even at half the price.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

Sounds like buying opportunities for folks who aren't scared of a steel boat. As long as you take into consideration that you will have to resell at a later date too.

 

[stuarth44]

Depends on how maintained too. Even the best of Dutch builds can suffer. I talked to a broker who showed an older Feadship

true nuff!!

 

[Lepke]

The trick to rust problems in steel boats is a proper barrier coat. Most of the barrier coat can last the life of the hull with maintenance and touch up. I had a 100' steel tug that had a zinc coating applied decades before I owned it. All I had to do was renew the barrier where lines and cables had worn it away. Other outside surfaces showed no sign of rust. Interior spaces had no rust at all. I've seen commercial steel boats with a good epoxy barrier that last decades. It's all in the prep and barrier.

 

[OldDan1943]

I wish I could afford a 'sound' steel or aluminum hull small trawler.