Comparing Insurance coverages

[firstbase]

Looking at a change in my boat insurance. Got a quote and comparing to what I have now. Both are through Geico. I may be nit picking, not sure. Biggest differences are the addition of Resulting Damages coverage, Waiver of Depreciation. Slightly higher coverage on Medical and Personal Effects. Deductible is higher due to current policy credits for no claims. One thing I should consider is that this is a new, current quote and my current coverage is due for renewal in March. It may increase as other Geico customers are showing online and the $$$ delta between the two will increase.

Any comments on which is best? Is this a no brainer?

 

[boater3]

Looking at a change in my boat insurance. Got a quote and comparing to what I have now. Both are through Geico. I may be nit picking, not sure. Biggest differences are the addition of Resulting Damages coverage, Waiver of Depreciation. Slightly higher coverage on Medical and Personal Effects. Deductible is higher due to current policy credits for no claims. One thing I should consider is that this is a new, current quote and my current coverage is due for renewal in March. It may increase as other Geico customers are showing online and the $$$ delta between the two will increase.

Any comments on which is best? Is this a no brainer?

A few thoughts:

Geico is not a marine insurer, they are an auto insurer that dabble in marine. You may want to consider a real marine insurance company. Have you gotten other quotes from other companies? I usually get a bunch of quotes, read the policies, compare coverage, select the best (its not usually a simple apple to apples comparison of coverage limits but you have to read the policy).

I would compare both pricing with the deductibles set the same to see how much the deductible increase is playing a role and what the added "features" really cost.

Have you taken the time to read and understand the policy? Have you confirmed it fits your needs and there are no "gotchas" or exclusions? One of them is typically a "hidden" depreciation clause on an agreed value policy kind of making it like an ACV policy (I am guessing here that you currently have that exclusion t but the new policy "depreciation waiver" feature removes that exception?). I am guessing its named coverage and not "all risk". Have you considered an "all risk" type of policy?

Are you a liveaboard? Do you have the right insurance for that?

Is there a separate named storm deductible?

Are there requirements for GPS tracking? Anything specific to storms, i.e. haul out required? Do they help pay for storm prep?

Have you actually read the endorsements for Waiver of depreciation, Dockage liability/hold harmless, resulting damages, premiere coverage, to understand what each means?

Lots to consider...

 

[DavidM]

I totally agree with Mystery. When you are paying $3,000 to insure a $165,000 boat you want real marine insurance that covers all of the risks of owning and operating a boat. For example does your Geico policy cover environmental liability?


You probably didn't know to ask that question and others like it. The only way to get real marine insurance and have it explained to you is to use a marine insurance broker like IMIS or Jack Martin in Maryland.


I use Progressive to insure my $40,000 outboard powered boat because they are cheap and the unknown risks and possible lack of coverages are minimal. But I wouldn't do that with your boat.


David

 

[boater3]

I would recommend googling for all the big name marine insurers, make a list, see who you can get quotes through directly, and who you need to go through an agent/broker. Charter Lakes is a decent broker and they work with a lot of the marine insurers and should be able to get you some quotes quick and easy.

nice catch djmarchand - didnt see environmental is missing!

 

[tiltrider1]

Do both policies cover consequential damages?

 

[Shrew]

I would honestly shop a marine insurance agency for marine insurance policy. That premium seems very, very high to me. However, I'm not in Florida.

 

[Mark P]

Be sure you have an umbrella policy. Those liability numbers look a bit low. See TF sad discussion on Boston Marina fire a few days ago.

 

[boater3]

^ Other good advice above! Depending on your assets/income/etc, I would consider at least $1-2m umbrella, especially if you ever have guests aboard.

 

[Shrew]

I was advised, by someone who worked in insurance (personal and business lines) for 30 years, that an umbrella policy is a waste of time. They NEVER saw anyone trying to get water from a stone. If someone has an umbrella policy, they go after the umbrella policy. If there isn't an umbrella policy they don't.

Despite the sales rhetoric, they never actually saw an example of someone's life financially ruined due to being underinsured. Nobody had their assets seized or foreclosed and families were never destitute due wage and income garnishments.

YMMV. There may be the odd cautionary tale out there, but I suspect that it is more urban legend than fact. I'd love to see some facts indicating otherwise.

 

[DavidM]

Shrew:

I don't have as much faith in humanity and evil, greedy lawyers as you, so I maintain an umbrella. It costs a few hundred dollars a year and covers boat, rv and personal liability. Also some marinas are now asking for $500,000 liability coverage. The typical $300,000 boat liability plus the umbrella satisfies them.


And I would never divulge that I had an umbrella except on this forum .


David

 

[Mark P]

While not greedy, it’s what I do for a living. Jury will never hear whether you have insurance - only that you caused the accident etc and the claim for damage. David is right, not expensive and worth the peace of mind.

 

[boater3]

While not greedy, it’s what I do for a living. Jury will never hear whether you have insurance - only that you caused the accident etc and the claim for damage. David is right, not expensive and worth the peace of mind.

I think that depends on the state? Some states make you share what insurance you have and what amounts?

 

[Mark P]

Yes to each other after accident or claim but jury never hears it.

 

[Oldersalt]

BoatUS now uses Geico and their coverage, which used to be quite good, is now not so good.They depreciate what they will pay on non-total repairs at 10% per year pn older boats, up to 80%. So, on an older boat, they would pay $2,000 against a $10,000 repair bill. Yuck! When I discovered this after buying a BoatUS/Geico policy, I quickly found a broker who found me a policy with Merkel that, for a few more bucks per year, does not have that depreciation feature. Since a partial repair is far more likely than a total loss, this was a big deal for me.
Good luck
Oldersalt

 

[firstbase]

IThe only way to get real marine insurance and have it explained to you is to use a marine insurance broker like IMIS or Jack Martin in Maryland. David

The quote I provided is through Jack Martin in Annapolis. I got his name through MTOA. They have a group discount setup with him as the agent and I thought it would possibly bring me better coverage and/or some savings.

 

[firstbase]

nice catch djmarchand - didnt see environmental is missing!

If by "Environmental" you mean "Fuel and Other Spill Liability", which is listed on both, then I do have that in the amount of $939,800. An odd number which leads me to believe it is required or standard. No sure.

 

[firstbase]

Do both policies cover consequential damages?

If "Consequential Damages" are the same as "Resulting Damages" then yes the new quote has that but my current policy does not. "Resulting Damages" was explained to me as, by way of example, a through hull fails and the boat sinks. They will pay for the damages caused by the sinking but won't replace the through hull. Which I simply do not understand and find as the most bizarre insurance coverage of all time.

 

[firstbase]

I would honestly shop a marine insurance agency for marine insurance policy. That premium seems very, very high to me. However, I'm not in Florida.

As I mentioned, the quote is from Jack Martin in Annapolis which is one of the ones highly touted by others. That's my frustration. Maybe I am expecting too much and the agent is trying to put me into a one-size-fits-all MTOA policy with lower rates and "base" coverage to give members a lower rate. Becoming educated on the ins and outs of boat insurance is like trying to learn how to rebuild an engine when you can barely change the oil. I thought I would go to the suggested agent as I felt I would be guided down a reasonable path to good coverage. At this point I just want to sit at a desk in front of a real live human being and talk to them about what is needed and what is not. The price can be whatever it needs to be. Just don't know any live human QUALITY ORIENTED marine insurance agents/companies in my area.

 

[firstbase]

BoatUS now uses Geico and their coverage, which used to be quite good, is now not so good.They depreciate what they will pay on non-total repairs at 10% per year pn older boats, up to 80%. So, on an older boat, they would pay $2,000 against a $10,000 repair bill. Yuck! When I discovered this after buying a BoatUS/Geico policy, I quickly found a broker who found me a policy with Merkel that, for a few more bucks per year, does not have that depreciation feature. Since a partial repair is far more likely than a total loss, this was a big deal for me.
Good luck
Oldersalt

On the two I listed the quote does not have the depreciation. Current coverage does, 80%. Current coverage is BoatUS/Geico. Quoted coverage is through "Seaworthy Insurance Company". That is who Jack Martin has found for me. To add to my confusion I am told that Seaworthy...

"Combined with its sister company Geico and is now using the Geico brand for its products. They are still using the same underwriters & claims team as before (which is also shared with their other sister company Boat US).

So I use Seaworthy and end up with Geico? At this point I think selling the boat is my best option.

 

[BDofMSP]

... Just don't know any live human QUALITY ORIENTED marine insurance agents/companies in my area.

This has always been a big question mark for me. How important is "in my area" when it comes to the agent / broker? And does that mean close to me, or close to the boat? Because there's not much going on for insurance up in Bayfield Wisconsin from what I can see. Minneapolis (where I live) has more options, but probably not exclusively marine focused.

Sorry if this is thread drift.

 

[koliver]

Consequential damage is HUGE
Is that the reason for the big difference in the two premiums? Probably.
Consider this:
A few years ago I had a failure of the raw water pump seals. This introduced water into the engine sump. That led to a complete failure of the engine. The insurance co wouldn't pay for replacement of the water pump, but consequential damage coverage paid the rest.
Don't buy a policy without it.

 

[boater3]

This has always been a big question mark for me. How important is "in my area" when it comes to the agent / broker? And does that mean close to me, or close to the boat? Because there's not much going on for insurance up in Bayfield Wisconsin from what I can see. Minneapolis (where I live) has more options, but probably not exclusively marine focused.

Sorry if this is thread drift.

It doesnt matter where the agent/office is located. I have never used a local agent/office.

 

[firstbase]

This has always been a big question mark for me. How important is "in my area" when it comes to the agent / broker? And does that mean close to me, or close to the boat? Because there's not much going on for insurance up in Bayfield Wisconsin from what I can see. Minneapolis (where I live) has more options, but probably not exclusively marine focused.

Sorry if this is thread drift.

Not thread drift to me. I guess I add insurance to my list of things I need an education on in regards to the boat. Would be nice to have a list of insurance requirements, loop holes, you-need-to-not-forget-about-this's, etc. Maybe I can educate myself online and find out the hidden tricks. I don't want to have to read and tear apart a policy to try to understand it. I'm (obviously) not an insurance agent nor educated buyer at this point in time and most likely won't get the implications of the language. I want someone who knows what they are talking about to explain what I really need. Once I decide what I am comfortable with then they can give me a price which is what it is. Seems like a good marine insurance agent would do that but I guess not. Maybe the thought that not all are out to trick you into a policy that doesn't meet your real needs is a pipe dream.

 

[boater3]

Not thread drift to me. I guess I add insurance to my list of things I need an education on in regards to the boat. Would be nice to have a list of insurance requirements, loop holes, you-need-to-not-forget-about-this's, etc. Maybe I can educate myself online and find out the hidden tricks. I don't want to have to read and tear apart a policy to try to understand it. I'm (obviously) not an insurance agent nor educated buyer at this point in time and most likely won't get the implications of the language. I want someone who knows what they are talking about to explain what I really need. Once I decide what I am comfortable with then they can give me a price which is what it is. Seems like a good marine insurance agent would do that but I guess not. Maybe the thought that not all are out to trick you into a policy that doesn't meet your real needs is a pipe dream.

If you want good insurance, then you need an "all risk" type of policy. They are typically 2-5x what a regular "named coverage" boat policy costs.

 

[BDofMSP]

It doesnt matter where the agent/office is located. I have never used a local agent/office.

I've never made a claim. My only experience is auto. If I make one, isn't there an adjuster that comes? Do I need to be concerned about distance or ask about that when I buy?

 

[ksanders]

Ok, I have Geico marine insurance, which nwas formerly Seaworthy a company Geico bought.

Get a real Gieco marine quote, for a all risk policy. What you seem to be showing is something different than how my policy reads, and i specifically got out a copy of my policy as I read this thread to make sure.

A all risk policy covers everything except things listed in the policy as exclusions. That is the kind of policy you want, not a policy that names things that are covered.

 

[firstbase]

Ok, I have Geico marine insurance, which nwas formerly Seaworthy a company Geico bought.

Get a real Gieco marine quote, for a all risk policy. What you seem to be showing is something different than how my policy reads, and i specifically got out a copy of my policy as I read this thread to make sure.

A all risk policy covers everything except things listed in the policy as exclusions. That is the kind of policy you want, not a policy that names things that are covered.

Not sure what you mean. Here is my current declaration page which shows BoatUS Marine Insurance Program and Geico Marine Insurance as well as marine specific coverage.

 

[danderer]

I don't want to have to read and tear apart a policy to try to understand it. I'm (obviously) not an insurance agent nor educated buyer at this point in time and most likely won't get the implications of the language. I want someone who knows what they are talking about to explain what I really need. Once I decide what I am comfortable with then they can give me a price which is what it is. Seems like a good marine insurance agent would do that but I guess not. Maybe the thought that not all are out to trick you into a policy that doesn't meet your real needs is a pipe dream.

Personally I see several things wrong here. First, given that you are signing a contract that can ultimately protect or expose everything you have worked for in your life, taking the time to read and understand that contract is, to me, a common sense requirement.

Second, there are lots of good agents out there. I see positive references for folks all the time in this and other forums. Talk to one or more of them. Tell them what you need and expect from them. If you know nothing about insurance, make that clear to them and ask to be educated.

Now if you go into this with the attitude that anyone you talk to is trying to "trick" you, well, I think the problem isn't on their end but rather yours.

 

[boater3]

I've never made a claim. My only experience is auto. If I make one, isn't there an adjuster that comes? Do I need to be concerned about distance or ask about that when I buy?

Adjuster is not the agent/local office. Usually an adjuster is sent from the insurance company or the insurance company hires someone. In many cases, especially on larger yachts/policies, they will fly someone in or send someone from a distance. There are not marine adjusters everywhere like auto adjusters. Another thing that can happen on a non marine boat policy is they do send an auto adjuster who has no clue what to look for and may make some visual observations, take some pics, and do some guesswork. Why would you care if the adjuster is local? You are going to go meet them at their office or hang out with them? For what purpose?

 

[ksanders]

Not sure what you mean. Here is my current declaration page which shows BoatUS Marine Insurance Program and Geico Marine Insurance as well as marine specific coverage.

OK, my policy is exactly the same.

So...

Going back to your first post where you mentioned a line item of “resulting damages”

That is what I was refering to. My policy does not say that. Neither on the declarations page, nor the policy documents that I looked at last night.

That was the basis for my comment.