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Old 02-25-2015, 04:18 PM   #101
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Claimed 2500 pounds of cast iron ballast set in resin and claims it adds strength to the hull which only has 1/2" of FRP below the water line. I would like to hear some comments on that.

For a 15,500 pound boat, that seems like a lot of ballast for a power boat but I am certainly not that knowledgeable on it.
I've got 2500lb of cast iron ballast in my bilge. It doesn't slow the boat down at all!!
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Old 02-25-2015, 05:14 PM   #102
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I've got 2500lb of cast iron ballast in my bilge. It doesn't slow the boat down at all!!
Have you ever run it without the ballast to know that for sure? I'm kidding obviously but my point is how would you know for sure that it wouldn't slow it down. I don't know how fast your boat runs, but ballast probably has no effect at hull speed. On the other hand, once one rises above that, then it's going to have some impact, although probably only 1 or 2 knots.
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Old 02-25-2015, 05:28 PM   #103
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I've got 2500lb of cast iron ballast in my bilge. It doesn't slow the boat down at all!!

THis would only be because of hull shape limiting your speed to begin with. Your fuel consumption is affected though. Weight of the craft will always slow it and/or increase fuel consumption. The laws of physics can not be bypassed or violated. Even spacecraft in weightless space are affected in both speed and fuel consumption by weight.
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Old 02-25-2015, 05:40 PM   #104
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I think he means engine... Of course the boat goes slower without the engine and faster with it.

Or am I missing something??
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Old 02-25-2015, 09:37 PM   #105
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Ah yes, you may be right. He's playing games. Good catch
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Old 02-25-2015, 10:00 PM   #106
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Ha!! That was rude of me. Yes, 2500# of cast iron... engine.
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Old 02-25-2015, 10:12 PM   #107
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a 34' boat with an 81/2' beam seems to me to be a recipe for a pretty tippy boat.

The manufacturer might just build one and see if the design even works out.

Kevin,
A well designed boat that is narrower will have less cabin and top hamper. You must be thinking of an 8.5' beam boat w the cabin of a typically fat boat. Like a 23' trailer boat w a FB. An 8.5' beam boat that has good proportions and an appropriate CG and trim will not be "tippy". IMO.
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Old 02-25-2015, 10:17 PM   #108
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The concept of people actually wanting to tow a large boat is fictional in my opinion. My 28' Bayliner loooked and felt like the frigging Queen Mary behind my one ton truck. Towing a big boat is no fun at all.
Exactly!
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Old 02-26-2015, 11:57 AM   #109
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Is boating for the rich? Feeling dismayed

I would rather have a 12 ft beam and give it to a semi to tow to it's new location if you can not go by water. The cost of 1 ton truck and 3 axial trailer is kind of expensive.
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Old 02-26-2015, 12:04 PM   #110
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"Weight of the craft will always slow it and/or increase fuel consumption"

raise fuel consumption yes!

hurt speed . hardly on a displacement boat, if the engine is not at max.

Only much ungood for plaining boats.

A marine ton is 2240 lbs , close enough to the 2500lbs of ballast.

One ton of weight requires 3 hp at normal cruise , at a normal 15HP per gallon burned an extra 1/5 of a GPH will be required for the safty of ballast .

Worth it ? Up to You.
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Old 02-26-2015, 08:49 PM   #111
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"Weight of the craft will always slow it and/or increase fuel consumption"

raise fuel consumption yes!

hurt speed . hardly on a displacement boat, if the engine is not at max.

Only much ungood for plaining boats.

A marine ton is 2240 lbs , close enough to the 2500lbs of ballast.

One ton of weight requires 3 hp at normal cruise , at a normal 15HP per gallon burned an extra 1/5 of a GPH will be required for the safty of ballast .

Worth it ? Up to You.

Notice I stated his hull shape as a factor in the speed. Yes, by the laws of physics weight will ALWAYS slow a craft, however the slowing is not noticed because the speed is already limited by the hull shape.
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Old 02-26-2015, 11:36 PM   #112
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...... however the slowing is not noticed because the speed is already limited by the hull shape.
Slowing is always noticed by hull shape and weight. By 'noticed', I am referring to a an actual calculated 'slowing'. You would not be aware of it if you had a more than sufficient engine driving the craft, however, in something like a sailboat which typically has very low power, you will definitely notice the slowing. Get on a small sailboat, say 25', with a friend and go sailing. Then come back with the identical wind and water conditions with 3 friends. You will definitely notice the difference.
As for speed limited by the hull shape, well, that only works on full displacement hulls. A flat bottom, planning hull has no theoretical hull speed. It is limited by the amount of engine power. When a flat bottom boat just plugs along, it is just like a displacement hull. When more power is applied, the boat squats down and goes faster. As it squats and goes faster, the flat bottom is pushing the boat against the water rather than moving through it. This then causes the boat to rise a little. As it rises out of the water, the waterline becomes shorter, and shorter and shorter as you rise into a plane. Have fun calculating the theoretical hull speed on a waterline of one foot or less. The formulas for hull speed are for displacement hulls only.
Anyhow, this Seapiper 34 specs say it has a flat bottom. That gives us somewhat of a planing hull with no theoretical hull speed. A typical 34' displacement hull has a theoretical hull speed of around 7 to 7.5 kts. The specs for the Seapiper 34 says it cruise around 11 kts and max out at about 15 kts. This adds some truth to my statements.
On this particular hull, the skeg/keel will also add a certain amount of drag and restrict it's planning ability but still allow it to act like a planing or semi-planing hull.
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Old 02-27-2015, 06:37 AM   #113
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"When a flat bottom boat just plugs along, it is just like a displacement hull."

Except the flat bottom is a poorer weight carrier and will have more wetted surface so will require some extra HP to compensate.

Also at disp speeds many flat bottoms will have the transom immersed , another fuel cost to drag the water behind the transom.

For best "efficiency " at displacement speeds a displacement hull is needed.

Of course 10% more skin friction drag and 10%-15% more transom drag does not change the fuel bill much on a 2 to 4 GPH boat.

While a flat bottomed boat may not have a top speed the occupants will.

The flat boat will pound at speed in anything but smooth water .

Most Patrol boats are deep V to reduce the G loads at speed in open water.
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Old 02-27-2015, 08:21 AM   #114
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Given the above info, it appears that the Seapiper 34 is nothing more than a trawler look-alike. I have never towed a mid-size boat before and now after reading a few posts about towing, I see the Seapiper market getting smaller and smaller. As for the idea of adding a mast and making it a motorsailer, I seriously doubt it would do anything but become a hazard for an 8 1/2' beam with a flat bottom.
It really is a cool looking boat though.
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Old 02-27-2015, 10:52 AM   #115
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The concept of people actually wanting to tow a large boat is fictional in my opinion. My 28' Bayliner loooked and felt like the frigging Queen Mary behind my one ton truck. Towing a big boat is no fun at all.
People 'wanting' to tow their midsize boat is a reality (see ranger tug sales), until they actually do it (see above).
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Old 02-27-2015, 11:20 AM   #116
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People 'wanting' to tow their midsize boat is a reality (see ranger tug sales), until they actually do it (see above).
In the area I lived in for decades, towing boats was very much the thing when I was young. However, as vehicles got smaller and as dry storage units were built, it pretty much stopped except for bass boats, generally towed by pickup truck. Now as more and more people bought trucks it picked back up a little but still mostly bass boats and very few larger boats. Living in Fort Lauderdale, I don't even know anyone who owns a trailer. Now I know there are some, but still primarily fishermen.

If it's a huge effort to get your boat where you want to use it, then it's just human nature that you'll do it less and less. The first time there's the new excitement but then you get very jealous of all the others who can just go and crawl aboard their boats.

It's a lot like those who have long drives to their boat. Usage drops proportionately to the length of drive.
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Old 02-27-2015, 11:25 AM   #117
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People 'wanting' to tow their midsize boat is a reality (see ranger tug sales), until they actually do it (see above).
Thats right. When I had a trailerable cruiser the dream was to haul it to various ports in Alaska depending on what we wanted to fish for.

Then I actually hooked my truck to a real 28' X 9' 7500 pound boat, a Bayliner 2859. Figure another 2K for the trailer so the package was pushing 10,000 pounds, and was something over 12' high.

My truck was and still is a Ford 1 ton with diesel and manual transmission. No argument, an excellent tow rig.

The reality was that I ended up towing the boat twice a season. Once to the harbor and once home.
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Old 02-27-2015, 11:44 AM   #118
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Well I guess you're just not a truck driver Kevin.

I was a truck driver and can relate. But the air brakes on a truck are much better than a little truck and of course trailer brakes. Driving your described rig would not be a problem for me but paying for it all WOULD. I actually like shifting gears and driving trucks.
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Old 02-27-2015, 11:45 AM   #119
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My dad had a 25ft Bayfield sailboat, he towed all over the place. He towed it across country and spent the winter in the Caribbean on it. Another winter he brought it to the Sea of Cortez. It was an awful sailing boat and only had abot 5 ft of headroom at the most and he sure seemed to enjoyed it. At that point in my life , I thought the boat was cool, but way to small for me to be comfortable in for anything more than one or two nights.
Bayfield 25 in water, but a trailerable pocket cruiser
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Old 02-27-2015, 11:47 AM   #120
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Agreed that towing a big boat (New Moon is 12K lb on the trailer, 33 feet long, and 13 feet tall) is not a ton of fun. But it can be a good solution for some, and one does get a lot more comfortable with it with practice (73K miles on this boat/trailer so far). Getting good at trailer maintenance is a key part of that. And it sure helps that most of the roads I tow on are not too crowded.

I live in Utah, boat mostly in SE Alaska and BC, and find it to my liking to keep my boat here at home, and launch it wherever I choose to go. So for me the tradeoff of a smaller boat that is just reasonably towable works.

That said, I guess I could be talked into a Nordic Tug.......
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