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Old 02-23-2015, 02:05 PM   #81
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seriously doubt that price




In any event you misunderstood, you don't need a fixer upper. There are some well taken care of boats that don't sell for much more than a fixer...
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Old 02-23-2015, 02:19 PM   #82
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So what I am getting from this thread is that it might be more economical to buy used and pump some money into repairing it. I have a friend that has just finished designing a 34' trawler that he says he can sell for around $114,000. My understanding is that this would be ready to cruise at this price, so I am thinking I might be able to play at that price! Is there anything I am missing? The boat is the SeaPiper 34, you can google it. (I can't post a link here)
If your friend can build and deliver a 34' boat for that price point it will sell.

Just remember that huge manufacturers like Bayliner with all their engineers trying to cut costs, and all their buying power couldn't do it. Thats not to say it cannot be done, its just saying that others have tried and it didn't work out for them.
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Old 02-23-2015, 02:21 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by pewterputter View Post
So what I am getting from this thread is that it might be more economical to buy used and pump some money into repairing it. I have a friend that has just finished designing a 34' trawler that he says he can sell for around $114,000. My understanding is that this would be ready to cruise at this price, so I am thinking I might be able to play at that price! Is there anything I am missing? The boat is the SeaPiper 34, you can google it. (I can't post a link here)
I would be very reluctant to buy a homemade boat (I use the word homemade to indicate not an active and regular boat builder, rather than place built). It looks good on paper but how many has he built at that price?
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Old 02-23-2015, 02:25 PM   #84
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Plus I would never want to be hull 1. Since Its the first there will be mistakes made that will cost you. Buy something proven.
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Old 02-23-2015, 02:27 PM   #85
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Nice looking boat. Most 34' trawlers have about a 12' beam. This is only about 8 1/2' beam. That would account for the almost 7 MPG theoretical fuel consumption. Keep in mind that when you pay slip fees, you pay by the linear foot. Most people would want more interior space and that would be in the beam. Just something to consider if you are planning any really long trips.
Anyway, I wish your friend good fortune in his new company.
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Old 02-23-2015, 03:27 PM   #86
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Mick I'll sell you a good Willard for less than $60K and there's great cruising opportunities here .... or on you're way home. One GPH.

First time I've clicked on this thread. My mistake.

Yup I use minimal electronics, no gen, small capstan to anchor, FD hull w small engine, no TV, no good dinghy, no FB, no fridge, ect ect. The only one I'm a little frustrated not having is a good dinghy. I use $100 a gal anti-fowling, and usually sleeping bags. I have a King bed at home w a $2000 mattress. But don't miss it on the boat.

I've always thought one of the best things about boating is that you could buy an old rowboat for $30 or a yacht for 3 million. Everything in between is called messing around in boats. Go for it. Trust us ... it's there.
Well said.
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Old 02-23-2015, 04:28 PM   #87
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Thanks Tony_B My friend said early on that he chose the 8 1/2' beam because he wanted it to be trailerable. He is the king of efficiency though and I am sure that had something to do with that spec too!

BandB this is not homebuilt stuff but a full-on manufacturer-built complete boat. He has most all his vendors already on board so I am sure he is able to project final cost. And, he is not the kind of guy that would post a price on the SeaPiper company website unless he was confident he could meet that price.
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Old 02-23-2015, 04:32 PM   #88
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seriously doubt that price




In any event you misunderstood, you don't need a fixer upper. There are some well taken care of boats that don't sell for much more than a fixer...
So yes maybe I did misunderstand. The $114k for a new SeaPiper would be in the ball park for a well-cared-for Ranger Tug or something similar?
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Old 02-23-2015, 04:38 PM   #89
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I am new to the forum, but maintain my boat on a budget so I feel safe in commenting here. You can maintain a boat quite cheaply, but to do that you have to do most or all of the work on your boat yourself. There is no need to scrimp on things like lighting, refrigeration, etc. After all, those are one time costs. When I bought my boat is was on the verge of being cut up for scrap. Four years of sweat equity later I have a nice cruising boat equipped exactly how I want it. I keep it at a marina during the season, which is about half of my annual expense. Winter storage accounts for another quarter of my costs.

Your major costs are likely to be moorage unless you are cruising and anchor out, insurance and fuel if you ae on the move. Fuel cost can be minimized by cruising slowly. My boat burns 1/3 of a gallon per hour at 6 knots but 2.5 gph at 9 knots, so I generally cruise at 6 knots. My boat is wood, which creates some additional maintenance costs, but a glass boat will have little work needed that you can't do yourself. As far as electronics goes, you don't need all that much. My electronics consists of a fish finder that came with the boat but likely cost under $200, a vhf radio ($150) and a notebook computer with a $50 GPS puck I run free charting software on using free charts downloaded from NOAA. I don't have radar, but even here on the coast of Maine I don't feel the need for it. I also don't have an autopilot, but you really don't want to run under autopilot here unless you like lobster gear fouling your prop. I installed 100 watts of solar panels on the cabin top which keep my batteries up and let me run my refrigeration 24/7. Other than that all I have on the boat is an electric windlass, pressure water, a webasto heater and lights. I keep the costs down by doing ALL the work on the boat myself.

You don't have to be rich to enjoy boating, particularly if you don't feel the need for the biggest and best boat.
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Old 02-23-2015, 07:53 PM   #90
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The cost of health care is what can make or break you, and it has nothing to do with boating or land based living. Number one reason for bankruptcies in the US and that included people who HAVE health insurance. Lots of places in the world with good health care at a lot more affordable cost then the US. Now understand I live half the year in Alaska with maybe the highest health care costs in the world. The other half of the year I spend in Asia and am currently anchored with many other yachts with stories of their mostly good experiences of affordable good health care in Asia.
The cost of health care in the US can eat your lunch. It broke me once.
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Old 02-23-2015, 10:10 PM   #91
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Thanks Tony_B My friend said early on that he chose the 8 1/2' beam because he wanted it to be trailerable. He is the king of efficiency though and I am sure that had something to do with that spec too!

BandB this is not homebuilt stuff but a full-on manufacturer-built complete boat. He has most all his vendors already on board so I am sure he is able to project final cost. And, he is not the kind of guy that would post a price on the SeaPiper company website unless he was confident he could meet that price.
My comment is regarding him not having built one. And i'll always be skeptical of anyone building his first, whether a boat builder or home builder or any other builder. As to his cost, he can't possibly be efficient on the first boat, but if he can absorb that then hope for more.
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Old 02-24-2015, 07:08 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by pewterputter View Post
Thanks Tony_B My friend said early on that he chose the 8 1/2' beam because he wanted it to be trailerable. He is the king of efficiency though and I am sure that had something to do with that spec too!

BandB this is not homebuilt stuff but a full-on manufacturer-built complete boat. He has most all his vendors already on board so I am sure he is able to project final cost. And, he is not the kind of guy that would post a price on the SeaPiper company website unless he was confident he could meet that price.
It is a nice bare bones boat design, kind of like a Great Harbour N37 Mini/Light. Went over the web site and my first impression was a buyer better be prepared to hang a few solar panels and a controller on it as there doesn't appear to be any space for a generator and it wasn't listed as an option. Air conditioning? Well, if you want to sell boats in Florida or the southeast, you better have it or at least provision for it. That wasn't listed as an option either. May be possible to add a genny and AC below the cockpit or optionally store a portable gas genny. Thought I read somewhere that it came with a heater but didn't see it in the equipment list.

Does the backwards outside steering wheel provide any value?

A big negative is having to walk outside to get from the pilothouse/galley to the cabin/head. Not sure I am that thrilled with the door being on the from of the pilot house but it should provide nice ventilation.

What I like a lot is the 34" draft and low air draft. Also liked the fuel tanks which appear to be fiberglass.

My overall impression is the SeaPiper 34 is a west coast/PNW boat for a cruising couple. The pricing doesn't seem to be that low for what you are getting and to fully provision it will probably take another $100K or so. Seems to me like a Ranger 31 is laid out a lot better except for the engine room and cockpit storage. YMMV.
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Old 02-25-2015, 06:00 AM   #93
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Most folks do not realize that mere volume is not a boating goal.

A comfortable, safe interior that is a pleasure to LIVE in is preferable to a cabin that echoes.

Sure the liveaboard set wants huge volume to store junk from their past lives they cant toss, but for a cruiser,( that is not aground in his coffee grounds ), has little use for big empty space.
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Old 02-25-2015, 10:54 AM   #94
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......Sure the liveaboard set wants huge volume to store junk from their past lives they cant toss, but for a cruiser,( that is not aground in his coffee grounds ), has litle use for big empty space.
Your statement is only partially true. A 34' boat with an 11-12' beam is hardly what anyone would call a huge volume to store anything, let alone junk. We live aboard and travel and 50% of my storage space is tools and spare parts including rope, anti-freeze, oil and filters. The other 50% comprises clothing, drinking water and food storage. Some of the water and food actually gets stored in the v-berth. My interior living space is always kept neat. maybe I could start stacking stuff on top of the fridge, settee's etc. so I could bring in past life junk. I guess we could run around naked in the summer, which is not really a bad idea, although illegal, and clothe ourselves in a blanket toga in the winter. Having said that, an 8 1/2 boat beam would leave little to no storage- Picture a 25' sailboat hull stretched to 34' long. I'm not saying that traveling cant be done because I have done it on my 25' sailboat. That was on the gulf coast where gas, food and supplies were never more than a day's ride and I was a lot younger.
A 34' boat with an 8 1/2' beam is great for trailering. There are even some trailer sailor forums on the web. However a normal beam on a 30' boat would have more room than a narrow beam on a 34' boat and would also be less expensive for slip fees in addition to having more 30' slips available than 34 ' slips.


BTW FF, what's the beam on your boat?
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Old 02-25-2015, 11:41 AM   #95
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todays market favours the less well off. There are some amazing well maintained boats available in the 100K +_ range.. Imagine buying something that would cost 1 million to replace having just as much fun as the original owner at 1/10 the price.


A problem I see today is that buyers just don't know a good deal when the find it.
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Old 02-25-2015, 12:39 PM   #96
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a 34' boat with an 81/2' beam seems to me to be a recipe for a pretty tippy boat.

The manufacturer might just build one and see if the design even works out.
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Old 02-25-2015, 01:46 PM   #97
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Very Tippy. Just step on a smaller sailboat and watch it tip and rock.
I saw somewhere in the specs where the manufacturer shows 'ballast'.
Surely he isn't counting the engine and tankage as ballast. And even at that, it will still be tippy.
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Old 02-25-2015, 02:14 PM   #98
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Very Tippy. Just step on a smaller sailboat and watch it tip and rock.
I saw somewhere in the specs where the manufacturer shows 'ballast'.
Surely he isn't counting the engine and tankage as ballast. And even at that, it will still be tippy.
Claimed 2500 pounds of cast iron ballast set in resin and claims it adds strength to the hull which only has 1/2" of FRP below the water line. I would like to hear some comments on that.

For a 15,500 pound boat, that seems like a lot of ballast for a power boat but I am certainly not that knowledgeable on it.
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Old 02-25-2015, 02:51 PM   #99
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The cost of health care is what can make or break you, and it has nothing to do with boating or land based living. Number one reason for bankruptcies in the US and that included people who HAVE health insurance. Lots of places in the world with good health care at a lot more affordable cost then the US. Now understand I live half the year in Alaska with maybe the highest health care costs in the world. The other half of the year I spend in Asia and am currently anchored with many other yachts with stories of their mostly good experiences of affordable good health care in Asia.
The cost of health care in the US can eat your lunch. It broke me once.

I have dual citizenship, USA and Canada. Health care costs can be somewhat deferred for me if I choose to spend more than 6 months a year in Canada. Also my pension has a 13th check (most years) that can often pay for the entire years health insurance. I am lucky in that sense.
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Old 02-25-2015, 03:05 PM   #100
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Claimed 2500 pounds of cast iron ballast set in resin and claims it adds strength to the hull which only has 1/2" of FRP below the water line. I would like to hear some comments on that.

For a 15,500 pound boat, that seems like a lot of ballast for a power boat but I am certainly not that knowledgeable on it.
As a comparison my old 28' Bayliner had between 3/4 and 7/8" solid fiberglass below the waterline.

A buddies sea sport had 3/4"

1/2 inch seems light to me but who knows with modern vacume bagged constructioon methods.

The manufacturer need to move his design from paper to reality to even see if it works. Persoanlly I do not have much confidence.

What I see is a tippy lightly constructed boat at a price point that I do not believe to be realistic. That and its serving a target buyer that I'm not sure even exists.

The concept of people actually wanting to tow a large boat is fictional in my opinion. My 28' Bayliner loooked and felt like the frigging Queen Mary behind my one ton truck. Towing a big boat is no fun at all.
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