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Old 08-12-2015, 11:47 AM   #41
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IMHO - When really serious and pointedly looking with list of boat "needs" in hand the boat will find you (i.e. it will grab you - lol)! Soon as you are near enough to get up front and personal with it.


Boats do have a soul... don't cha know. Old ones have old souls. Some of the new ones inherit old souls from their builder as well as the builder's models/boats previously built. Some crappy-built or badly-designed boats never get chance to gain the position of "old soul"... they stay crummy from the get-go. I've even seen some that were DOA upon the first day of launch. Such as Ted Lang's Maine Coast Boat Builders... back in early 70's. I worked there for short time. Crappy business and short lived. That's a whole other story, and, it's not pretty.
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Old 08-12-2015, 12:12 PM   #42
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NYCHAB III;
Seems to me you have a lot of homework to do.

What will you do at the end of the "loop'? Ship it back west? A jet ski can be shipped pretty directly, a 36-42 footer will likely travel twice the distance to work within various state highway restrictions. Back roads, night travel etc. Seattle to Lewiston to a Great Lake could easily eat up huge chunks of time and money.

A well equipped west coast boat might not be suited to the loop. Small "for instance"; have you thought about air conditioning?

Boat for boat, I think you will find the east coast has more product at substantially lower prices, so why not reverse engineer your thought process. Find a good broker, and there are lots of them, in the south east; Lauderdale, St Pete's, Lake Worth or any large boating area.

Maybe give yourself a shopping holiday and attend the Ft Lauderdale Boat Show, Nov. 5-9. Talk to brokers, establish a relationship, refine your spec sheet, including things you don't want. Maybe, just maybe, you can find something you can loop with and ship west with the purchase savings. At the same time, establish a relationship with locals. If you do your homework you may find a boat hauler who regularly delivers west to east and sits waiting for a return load. They can talk reduced rate for a quick turnaround.

Whichever way you go, you will need hard space on either end to put a boat back together and someone you can trust to do it...in a timely fashion.

Your thinking puzzles me and I suspect brokers as well.
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Old 08-12-2015, 12:56 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by refugio View Post
Also, it's hard for someone in the PNW to imagine why anyone would want to take a boat from here:

to here:

Can't make a really good point any more effectively than this.
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Old 08-12-2015, 01:11 PM   #44
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Mr. Wxx3, We have been very upfront about our approach. We tell the Owner / Broker our purpose for looking, our Budget and our timeline. We tell him we will not need financing but will be doing a cash only sale. We tell him we are not just looking for a weekend boat ride. Because of that lack of success we have been less than forthright since. I just hate to play a guessing game with these guys and wish only to understand what, exactly, the process should entail since we have never done this before (other than our sailboat- which was a friend-to-friend sale).

Dave
It's not so much what you are doing, it's what you aren't doing. You're not successfully convincing a broker or owner that you're worth their time. That's part of the reason buyer broker's help. When you're just calling listing brokers and owners they often think of you as a shopper, not a buyer. They get a lot of tire-kickers and they make judgments which may be wrong. All they judge on is what they hear on the phone or read in your email. I can't imagine a broker who would rather you email than phone.

Now, let's say I was a broker, which I'd be really lousy at. I read this thread. You then emailed me. I would do something only if it was easy as you're all over the place calling brokers and owners and the odds of it benefiting me wouldn't be that good. As a broker, I am not convinced you're a serious buyer at this time and the likelihood of you buying from me seems very slim.

But engage a buyer's broker, call him and no one but him, let him get to know you and understand your goals, and you have a much better chance.
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Old 08-12-2015, 01:44 PM   #45
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...Also, it's hard for someone in the PNW to imagine why anyone would want to take a boat from here:

to here:

Now there's a great post. Hey, you're making me feel bad, that second photo could almost be the Missouri River and we took ours from around Newport, RI. Now I'm all depressed. Thanks a lot.
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Old 08-12-2015, 04:24 PM   #46
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Mr. Refugio, Yikes! I just don't know quite where to begin in my defense.

I just happen to believe that if you deal honestly and openly with someone, it will somehow be "better". Also, I don't have to remember a lot of stuff that may trip up a "lie".

As to my, admittedly limited, X-country shipping experience I assure you I did not simply have some clown strap my ski on the roof of his Prius and call that X-country shipping! My ski was tucked into available space with a 38-foot sailboat some idiot, like me, was shipping from Conn. to Calif. Moreover, the shipper informed me that he does this all the time! For 15-years he has been shipping peoples boats from coast-to-coast! Imagine that! Further, I am informed that there are a LOT of shippers that, in fact, do move boats from coast-to coast. The 30-foot sailboat I once owned actually moved from WA to Michigan and then to OR. And it wasn't even that great a sailboat. I'm sure the boat shipping industry will regard your implication that it is a "bad idea" and too expensive to ship a boat as "inexplicable". My dream is the "ditch" and possibly the Virgin Is., Yours is the PNW and I applaud that.

The original thrust of my post was to seek insight as to why we are having trouble getting to even see these boats AFTER the Owner/ Broker has already made an appointment with us to do so. Can't quite figure that aspect out. If I wanted to sell my boat (and some day I will) I would want potential buyers to see it. That's what my expectation would be. I personally would not give a whit what the potential buyer had in mind to do with it after the sale: keep it where it is, ship it somewhere else, scrap it, whatever as long as I got my money.

I have been noticing that many of the boats advertised out here are now lowering their prices (some rather dramatically) and I wonder if the brokers are somehow screening out potential buyers because they are feeling their "boat owning dream" is, in their opinion, unreasonable?

As to "tire kickers" and "shoppers" - don't you have to "shop" before you buy?

Dave
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Old 08-12-2015, 07:01 PM   #47
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Can't make a really good point any more effectively than this.
And it's not like I cherry-picked these images - just Googled "PNW Cruising" and "Great Loop Cruising" and selected Images. Heck, the 2nd image comes from The Great Loop Boating Adventure blog
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Old 08-12-2015, 07:08 PM   #48
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They can move big Victorian houses across town, they can truck the Space Shuttle through city streets, and people ship very big boats around the country every day - Senator Kennedy shipped his sailboat from Massachusetts to Florida and back with the seasons - but unless you win the lottery or have a powerful justification, you don't want to be writing the checks for moves like that.
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Old 08-12-2015, 07:20 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCHAB III View Post
I'm sure the boat shipping industry will regard your implication that it is a "bad idea" and too expensive to ship a boat as "inexplicable".
The shipping industry doesn't think about this - they just wait for someone like you to have a "dream" and some money. They'd drive it back and forth across the country if you're willing to pay the bill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCHAB III View Post
The original thrust of my post was to seek insight as to why we are having trouble getting to even see these boats AFTER the Owner/ Broker has already made an appointment with us to do so. Can't quite figure that aspect out.
You asked the question (which you thought rhetorical): is it literally everyone else involved in selling boats? Or is it you? And I think you really do owe it to yourself (and honestly, to the folks on this forum) to at least entertain for a minute the idea that it is, indeed, you.

Everyone involved in selling boats wants to...sell boats (I will admit that some of them are not acting effectively). They don't care about your dream (btw, are you asking the FSBOs about their dream?), but when they hear your story...you already live far away and want to buy a 36' to 42' cruiser to "fix up" and then ship...where was that again? The folks on this forum know what "the loop" is, but anyone in the PNW with a boat in the water is just going to roll their eyes. Unless you show them the money. And show them that you've already kicked all the tires and you know for damn sure you want a 1990 XYZ model Foo with single/double Whatchamallit engines - which they have. Actually, that last part isn't even important if you show them the money.

In almost 40 years of more than a dozen boat transactions (none of them over $100K) in two states (plus my dinghy, which I bought on eBay 10 years ago from a guy in Michigan and had shipped - with trailer - via UShip) I have never had an issue. Broker or private transaction. Documented or Registered. Power or Sail.

I was going to say I don't think I'm a particularly special buyer or seller. But I do have 1201 feedback points in 17 years of eBay transactions with literally 100% positive feedback. So, heck, maybe I'm above average.

It's fine for you to tell us your dreams. But I strongly suggest that you keep that out of any discussion with anyone you intend to transact boat business with.
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Old 08-12-2015, 07:32 PM   #50
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Dave--- If I was in your position again, and we were back when we first started thinking about buying a cruising boat in 1998, I would first find out by asking around or using forums like this one who some of the most reputable brokers are in this area (PNW), choose one, and then enlist them to help you find a boat.

Boats like the ones we seem to be talking about are not unlike real estate in my observation. The brokers have a "network" and they know a hell of a lot more about what's on the market and what's coming on the market than most individual buyers can ever find out on their own.

The boat we bought is a good example. It wasn't even on the market yet. The owner had just purchased a newish Grand Banks 46 up in Vancouver, BC and he didn't want to own two boats. So he called a broker in Alameda, CA and told him to sell his old Grand Banks 36.

The Alameda broker had a relationship with the Grand Banks dealer in Bellingham, WA so he called them first just to see if they knew anyone who might want to buy a very old GB36 that was in decent shape. And he faxed up the details about the boat.

A few minutes after the fax arrived at the Bellingham dealer, my wife and I walked in for a lunchtime appointment "just to talk" about the notion of buying a cruising boat. As it turned out, the GB36 in Alameda looked like it would fit our needs and what we wanted to spend on a boat at that time.

We made an offer which was transmitted to the owner who at the moment was taking his new GB46 down the coast from Vancouver to Alameda. Our offer was contingent on the boat actually being what it was described as being-- a bone-stock 1973 GB36--; that it passed our own inspection and sea trial; and that it did well in both a structures/systems survey and an engine survey conducted by surveyors selected by us.

Our offer was accepted, the three conditions were met and we had the boat trucked from Alameda to Puget Sound.

Having a broker working for us got us into the broker "network." In our case, the boat we bought never even hit the listings because of the relationship between the selling broker and our "buyer's broker."

Hiring or engaging a buyer's broker tells the "network" that your serious about buying a boat.

This is not to imply that one cannot find the right boat on their own. A lot of boaters, particularly the more experienced ones, are very successful at uncovering the ideal boat and negotiating the deal on their own.

But we had zip, zilch, zero, nada experience at this sort of thing and we also didn't want to spend or have the time required to search out a boat ourselves and jump through all the hoops on our own. Engaging a buyer's broker made the boat finding, checking out, and buying experience easy and frankly, a lot of fun.

We were also lucky. The broker we had made the appointment with "just to talk" about getting a cruising boat is a terrific broker. He knows his stuff, he's honest, and he treats his customers with total integrity and respect. Not all brokers are like this. So you have to be a good judge of character as well as a good judge of boats.

And..... as others have said in this thread, you have to know what you want. This does not have to mean what brand or what model, but what you want to do with a boat and what you want that boat to do for you.

I look at acquiring a cruising boat the same way I look at buying a computer. First, define as accurately and as thoroughly as possible what tasks you want to accomplish with a computer. Then figure out what software applications will best do those tasks and do them the way you want to do them. Once you know all that, the last step is to figure out which computer will do the best job of running that software, and buy it.
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Old 08-12-2015, 07:55 PM   #51
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When I was looking at buying a boat in the PNW I first did a lot of analysis at home in Australia. Eventually I came up with a shortlist of 10 boats. I planned a family skiing trip with 2 days set aside for boat inspections. Then I emailed the listing brokers a couple of weeks in advance and asked to see a specific boat at a specific time. All brokers responded, all but one showed up exactly on time. The guy who was late called and apologized, we waited a short time. One broker had a couple of other boats he wanted to show me but regrettably my schedule was too tight to fit it in. One of them, in hindsight, was the boat I should have bought.

If doing it again I would leave an extra day clear of per-arranged inspections to make the most of the brokers networks once they know you, and really know what you want.

Oh, and I did buy one of the boats that I inspected in those hectic 2 days of inspections.
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