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12-30-2015, 07:21 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
City: Hampton Bays, N.Y.
Vessel Name: Grand Yankee
Vessel Model: 1981 49' Grand Banks Classic
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 328
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Boat Brokers
I had placed my trawler with a broker and a serious buyer came along. Vessel and survey went well but found in top end of rpm range, one engine started to go hot. I made arrangements with the yard to check the inter cooler for blockage. When I talked to yard manager I found out the broker had called and told him to take the whole cooling system apart and I would pay for every thing. Broker told him that I had signed an agreement to pay anything and that he could spend the money. I never signed anything. It turned out that a broken anode had lodged sideways at the outlet port of the cooler restricting the water flows exit, causing the heat rise. Who do you trust? This is why we are better off selling and buying among ourselves.
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12-30-2015, 07:46 PM
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#2
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Guru
City: Tri Cities, WA
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,406
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Ron, just to protect yourself in case the broker or the repair place try to sue you to have a sit down with an attorney. A call from him to both other parties might prevent any action from them toward you to try to collect on a bill.
"The best defense is a good offense."
__________________
Mike and Tina
1981 Boston Whaler 13'
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12-30-2015, 08:02 PM
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#3
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Veteran Member
City: NC-Fl
Vessel Name: Blue Bayou
Vessel Model: Hatteras 43 MY
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 79
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Thats crazy !!! Its like do we really think the politicians have our best interest at hand. Its all about making the sale. Used car salesman and lawyers are the same too. Its hard to trust anyone these days. Sorry to hear this story.
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12-30-2015, 08:48 PM
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#4
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Guru
City: Sydney
Vessel Name: Sojourn
Vessel Model: Integrity 386
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 13,329
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Hope the sale went through after that.
There is a concept of "ostensible authority" affecting the extent of authority an agent has(here at least),but the broker was employed to sell the boat not manage it. Amazing how integrity gets displaced by the desire to close a $ deal.
__________________
BruceK
2005 Integrity 386 "Sojourn"
Sydney Australia
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12-30-2015, 09:13 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
City: Skagway Alaska
Vessel Name: Nowitna and Serenade
Vessel Model: Schucker and 46 foot Ted Brewer custom sailboat
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 150
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My experience so far has been few good brokers and a lot of bad ones and you don't always have a choice. I mostly just like to do things my self.
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12-30-2015, 09:23 PM
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#6
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Guru
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48 (sold)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,186
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So the problem was investigated and the boat got fixed, correctly I assume? Were you out of touch and the Broker had no choice but to take action? Maybe the Broker did you a favor.
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12-30-2015, 09:31 PM
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#7
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Guru
City: Sydney
Vessel Name: Sojourn
Vessel Model: Integrity 386
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 13,329
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Afterthought. Checked the Brokerage Agreement for any authority you may have given?
__________________
BruceK
2005 Integrity 386 "Sojourn"
Sydney Australia
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12-31-2015, 10:13 AM
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#8
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Veteran Member
City: Annapolis
Vessel Name: Riverdance, Hornet, Janet-R
Vessel Model: 49 Eastbay, J88, Jarvis N 32
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 46
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Yes there is always two side to every story...
Ron, Let me remind you that the conditional acceptance of vessel you signed states:
Seller agrees to pay for port engine cooling service as recommended...
This wording was used after you admitted the cooling system had never been serviced as recommended by Cummins in the 10 years you owned the boat.
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12-31-2015, 02:05 PM
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#9
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Guru
City: Cape Cod
Vessel Name: Slip Aweigh
Vessel Model: Prairie 29
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,219
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But... Did the seller agree to this prior to or after said 'agreement' was added to sales addendum?
Just because a broker writes a snappy clause in a contract does not hold either party to it. It must be signed by both parties as part of the P&S agreement.
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12-31-2015, 02:43 PM
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#10
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Guru
City: Cypress Landing Marina (NC)
Vessel Name: Heron (2)
Vessel Model: '88 Cape Dory 28 Flybridge #115
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbltime
Yes there is always two side to every story...
Ron, Let me remind you that the conditional acceptance of vessel you signed states:
Seller agrees to pay for port engine cooling service as recommended...
This wording was used after you admitted the cooling system had never been serviced as recommended by Cummins in the 10 years you owned the boat.
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Busted...
__________________
Steve
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12-31-2015, 03:05 PM
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#11
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Guru
City: Sioux Falls, South Dakota
Vessel Name: Xanadu
Vessel Model: Mainship 37 Motor Yacht
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,472
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I'd agree with freshalaska's earlier post. In my experience too, there are a few great brokers out there (like Jason at Watergate Marina in St. Paul, MN, who was incredibly patient with us, showed us a million boats trudging through the snow and I still feel vaguely guilty that we never bought anything from that marina), but in all our years boat shopping, brokers have killed more deals than they ever facilitated for us. The last one for example, we offered $36,000 on a Larson 310, within about 5% of the asking price so it's not as if we low-balled. The offer was accepted pending a survey. The survey came back generally good except for a few relatively small things. We waived them all except one outdrive wouldn't move up or down. The broker's own mechanic said it was just a bad hydraulic fluid pump, $450. We proposed that we'd have that same broker's mechanic fix it and take the $450 off the purchase price. Nope, they wouldn't budge and they scotched a $36K deal over a $450 pump (if that's indeed what the problem was). Who knows, maybe the owner was absolutely inflexible, maybe they had another buyer in the wings, maybe the mechanic was giving us a phony story or estimate on the frozen outdrive, maybe the owner didn't really want to sell anyway, but whatever the real story, taking them at face value, they scotched a $36,000 sale over a $450 pump. It was really annoying because we paid more than that for the survey itself. That was kind of the last straw, and ever since then we try to private-party our boat purchases whenever we can, and purposely try to avoid brokers.
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12-31-2015, 04:08 PM
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#12
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Guru
City: Cary, NC
Vessel Name: Skinny Dippin'
Vessel Model: Navigator 4200 Classic
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,841
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbltime
Yes there is always two side to every story...
Ron, Let me remind you that the conditional acceptance of vessel you signed states:
Seller agrees to pay for port engine cooling service as recommended...
This wording was used after you admitted the cooling system had never been serviced as recommended by Cummins in the 10 years you owned the boat.
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I believe there are now THREE sides to this story. derp...
__________________
2000 Navigator 4200 Classic
(NOT a trawler)
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12-31-2015, 04:22 PM
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#13
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Member
City: Marietta
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 12
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I have conducted AND PAID FOR two full boat plus two engine surveys of different cruisers that were both advertised by the brokers as being "turn key" & "ready to cruise". Both had severe engine problems on One of their twin Diesel engines. I have also driven 300 to 400 mile round trips several times to just "kick the tires" so to speak of other boats advertised as being in great shape only to find boats that were worn out.
The last boat I drove over 300 round trip miles to see turned out to not be as advertised. The owner or broker claimed it had two "recently rebuilt engines" with inky 25 hours in them since the recent rebuild. I made an offer contingent on receiving the actual receipts of the rebuild of each engine. These were produced and upon reading them I discovered " recently" was in early 2011 & only one engine had actually been rebuilt and the other was merely overhauled. I cancelled the offer. Sad thing is had the broker not lied in his ad I might have continued with the sale process including shelling out approximately $2,000 for haul out and surveys. But with such fraud being perpetrated up front I have to wonder how many other half truths and out and out lies have and will come out of the mouth of the broker or owner?
I was born at night...But not last night!
Tebeau169
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12-31-2015, 04:35 PM
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#14
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Guru
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48 (sold)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,186
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Geez what a soap opera. Wonder if the potential buyer is still around? Careful what you ask for seems appropriate. Lots of eyes on TF
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12-31-2015, 04:53 PM
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#15
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Guru
City: Sioux Falls, South Dakota
Vessel Name: Xanadu
Vessel Model: Mainship 37 Motor Yacht
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tebeau169
...I have also driven 300 to 400 mile round trips several times to just "kick the tires" so to speak of other boats advertised as being in great shape only to find boats that were worn out...
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The way that sentence was written I thought for a second you test-drove the boats themselves for 300 to 400 miles. I thought to myself, well of course the boat was worn out after you sea-trialed it FOUR HUNDRED MILES. What bonehead prospective buyer does that? But then I re-read and understood what you meant. Ha! I should try that next time we're boat shopping though. Hi, we'd like to sea trial the boat from Cape Cod to Annapolis, is that okay? Ha!
Reminds me of a long drive I took to Titusville, Florida once -- the photos showed a pristine navy blue hull so shiny you could see the photographer in the reflection. When I got there and saw it in person -- well, pelicans were nesting in the flybridge.
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01-01-2016, 05:47 AM
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#16
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Guru
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 22,553
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All any broker cares about is making a quick sale.
10% of 50K or 10% of 35K not a big deal to him , IF he can get the commission quickly.
There is always another boat to shlock ,
The internet has vastly reduced brokerage expenses,, a listing on Yachtworld vs a half page in a print magazine.
Purchasers drive hundreds of miles , so fiction in the listing is cost free for the broker.
Sometimes the broker only has the owners say about things like engine condition , although the broker should at least once before listing go on board and take a look for himself at the general condition..
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01-01-2016, 08:12 AM
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#17
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Guru
City: Northport
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,046
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"Sometimes the broker only has the owners say about things like engine condition , although the broker should at least once before listing go on board and take a look for himself at the general condition.."
Agreed - but most do not.
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01-01-2016, 11:21 AM
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#18
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Member
City: Marietta
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 12
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Does anybody know what FL gov't agency issues boat broker licenses? If the state issues licenses it has a method to discipline its licensees and revoke them as well. Has anybody used the complaint process?
Tebeau169
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01-02-2016, 07:08 AM
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#19
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Guru
City: Meydenbauer Bay Yacht Club
Vessel Name: Lulu (Refugio sold)
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,284
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Interesting how everyone piled on the broker. Maybe the mechanic wasn't being entirely truthful. Just saying'
Keith
__________________
Keith
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01-02-2016, 07:46 AM
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#20
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Guru
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48 (sold)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tebeau169
Does anybody know what FL gov't agency issues boat broker licenses? If the state issues licenses it has a method to discipline its licensees and revoke them as well. Has anybody used the complaint process?
Tebeau169
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Taking a boat to survey should be a well thought out endeavor by the prospective new owner. There have been many threads on TF on what to look for during a pre survey inspection. Dave Marchand has posted his version of a self survey checklist several times. A trusted knowledgeable friend can assist in pre survey inspections.
Getting assistance from strangers on the Internet to beat up on a broker is an iffy step. Unless you have had your money stolen, time and travel wasted by faulty advertising is part of the boat buying game. Especially on project or "too good to be true" vessels.
There are two brokers who frequent the TF site I'd have no problem using as Buyers Brokers. This step helps to shorten the search and may be helpful in providing a better experience.
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