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Old 01-02-2016, 09:10 AM   #21
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I agree. I hate the "all brokers are bad" blanket statements. As in any profession, there are good ones, bad ones and the "in between". Caveat emptor.

I own a used car dealership, so maybe I'm a little sensitive after hearing our profession disparaged for years. Yes, there are bad car dealerships and dishonest car salespeople, but again, there are good ones in the mix as well.
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Old 01-02-2016, 10:30 AM   #22
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The reason for over heating was a broken off zinc caught sideways in the outlet tube of the inter cooler. It held the raw water within the chamber not letting the normal flow cry away the heat. After calling 4 anode suppliers, they find too many installers put a wrench on the bronze cap nut then a pair of pliers on the anode and turn with too much force. All three metals used are very brittle. A strong pair of hands is all that is needed. One company suggested using Coppercoat on the base of the anode. It is one of the few lubricants that conducts electricity 100%. The Cummins tech did his job correctly, starting at the hull intake valve, sea strainer, raw water pump then inter cooler. The raw water pump had been upgraded to one made by Sea Board Marine. Www.sbmar.com, will show improvements. Plan to close this coming week.
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Old 01-02-2016, 10:42 AM   #23
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You guys need to spend some time walking in the other man's shoes.
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Old 01-02-2016, 11:35 AM   #24
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After reading this I see that the seller signed a CONDITIONAL ACCEPTANCE. This is a common form used after a survey and sea trial. It states that the buyer will ACCEPT the boat after the seller does repairs or lowers the price. It commits the buyer to the purchase if the conditions are met. This way the deposit made by the buyer is at risk if he does not close. If the seller does the repairs and the buyer does not close he can share the deposit with the broker.
A typical listing agreement does not allow the broker to do repairs at the owners expense. Professional brokers will make sure that any expenses to maintain the boat or get it ready for a sea trial are in WRITING from the seller.
In my office we have a seller sign a DISCLOSURE form stating that the boat has not suffered material damage. I try to get information about care and maintenance but many times sellers do not keep records. Buyers of course do not want to spend money for a survey only to find too many problems. Brokers do not want to spend unpaid time working to put a sale together only to have it fall apart over issues not disclosed by the sellers. Most surveys find issues that are NOT KNOWN to the seller however.
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Old 01-02-2016, 12:49 PM   #25
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I believe there are now THREE sides to this story. derp...
There are always 3 sides....HIS...HERS...and the TRUTH!!!!
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Old 01-02-2016, 12:58 PM   #26
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After reading this I see that the seller signed a CONDITIONAL ACCEPTANCE. This is a common form used after a survey and sea trial. It states that the buyer will ACCEPT the boat after the seller does repairs or lowers the price. It commits the buyer to the purchase if the conditions are met. This way the deposit made by the buyer is at risk if he does not close. If the seller does the repairs and the buyer does not close he can share the deposit with the broker.
A typical listing agreement does not allow the broker to do repairs at the owners expense. Professional brokers will make sure that any expenses to maintain the boat or get it ready for a sea trial are in WRITING from the seller.
In my office we have a seller sign a DISCLOSURE form stating that the boat has not suffered material damage. I try to get information about care and maintenance but many times sellers do not keep records. Buyers of course do not want to spend money for a survey only to find too many problems. Brokers do not want to spend unpaid time working to put a sale together only to have it fall apart over issues not disclosed by the sellers. Most surveys find issues that are NOT KNOWN to the seller however.
Very nicely written!!! Thanks for your input!!! I use a broker that I have built a relationship with over the span of my boating career. He does an excellent job. I have even gone FSBO on him...twice...but have always sold the FSBO boats through him. He did an excellent job on my last deal...basically reviving the deal that was pretty much dead...all for a fairly meager commission. But he knows I will always be back!!
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Old 01-02-2016, 01:04 PM   #27
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FSBO.?

What is a typical brokers fee and how is it arrived at?
Never used a broker before.
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Old 01-02-2016, 01:11 PM   #28
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FSBO.?

What is a typical brokers fee and how is it arrived at?
Never used a broker before.
For Sale By Owner....IOW, no broker involved.

Broker fees are usually 10%...not cheap!!!
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Old 01-02-2016, 04:11 PM   #29
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Yee gods I thought it would be half that!

Sounds like a rip to me ..... but if a broker can get 20% more for my boat then I'd be stupid to sell it myself.

But boats vary wildly in how easy they are to sell so it would seem a set rate of 10% would not be porportional to the amount of effort and skill required to make the sale. In real estate it seems the goal for every broker is to beat the owners price down as low as possible and "get-ur-sold" so the broker can hurry to the bank and then do it all over again. I know a RE broker that won't list a house if he feels the price is'nt to his advantage.
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Old 01-02-2016, 05:23 PM   #30
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I do agree with cardude01, not all brokers are bad and I mentioned a good one for example (IMO), but it seems to me there must be a reason why discussions about brokers on every boat forum I've seen always trigger a barrage of negative comments. Seems to me the majority is doing something to generate that reaction.
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Old 01-02-2016, 06:13 PM   #31
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It's human nature to bitch and blame rather than praise and give credit so it's little wonder for the overwhelming negative stories. In real estate we used to have our own blanket statement, buyers are liars and sellers are yellers. Amazing how often that was proven true.
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Old 01-02-2016, 06:29 PM   #32
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The brokers I have used over the years have been excellent. I don't just walk in the door but rather pick my broker through recommendation of others. I try to be a good customer too by not running the broker in circles looking at boats I can't afford or just want to look at. I try to engage the broker in an understanding of my needs and lifestyle so that he can best advise and guide me. I do research as well so I am a knowledgeable buyer. I expect the broker to tell me not to waste my time looking at boats that are not in great/good condition. I think it's important to understand that the broker/client relationship must be built on mutual respect. I also understand that the buyer and the seller must, in the end, both feel they got a fair deal.

That's my philosophy and it has served me well. YMMV
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Old 01-03-2016, 12:48 PM   #33
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It is a nice Sunday afternoon here in South Florida, sunny around 75 degrees. I could be at the beach, or working in my garden or out in a boat but I am at my desk in the office. I am waiting for a client who just called to say they would be here not at 11 AM as we discussed earlier today but at 1 PM. Meanwhile when I arrived for that 11 AM appointment there was a broker at my office from another company, with a client who I had spent a lot of time with in the last two months and shown four or five different boats. Wrote up an offer from that guy to buy a boat, asking $1,500,000 and his offer was $1,000,000. The seller made a reasonable counter offer, the buyer would not go up a dollar. Instead of calling me back he called a different broker to show him a boat here at the boatyard that I already showed to him around Dec 1st. This is normal in my business, but I get to play with boats, go for boat trips and meet a lot of really good people, so I put up with the others. After 20 years of selling boats I expect to make enough money without paid vacations, without paid health insurance, paid holidays, paid sick days, or a pension plan. Maybe 10% commission is not enough after splitting it with the house.
But I will repeat, I get to go for boat rides, I did a trip from Lake Erie to Florida this fall, I went for a yacht ride in Italy this year, it is worth it to me.
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Old 01-03-2016, 01:09 PM   #34
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I have a number of friends who are brokers. Most of them are social friends. When I have been in the market, I will stop by and look at boats they represent with the understanding that we are looking, not buying. I think it's fair to ask about boats at their docks without committing to an offer. I believe that they are OK with that.

In buying our last boat, we used a broker that I have known for a number of years. The brokerage arranged for showings from Olympia to Bellingham. I spent a lot of time in the office asking a lot of questions. Separate from their efforts, we found a boat in Canada that we really liked. I asked our broker to call on our behalf and arrange a showing. They did and, when we got serious, they acted as our buyer's broker. They handled negotiations and acted on our behalf with the customs broker and the documentation people in Anacortes. A great job with lots of communications between the two brokerages.

The point is that there are a lot of honest brokers who are trying their best to make things work. The selling broker was happy, we were happy and our broker got paid for their efforts. Nobody loses when everybody is above board.
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Old 01-03-2016, 03:34 PM   #35
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Actually, the point was that we purchased our previous boat from a private seller. It took over three years to clear all the problems in that sale. Not saying that it can't be done, not saying that brokers don't make mistakes, but I am thinking that there is a reason that brokers get more than a boat ride now and then!
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Old 01-03-2016, 06:15 PM   #36
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I
But I will repeat, I get to go for boat rides, I did a trip from Lake Erie to Florida this fall, I went for a yacht ride in Italy this year, it is worth it to me.
Prediction -- you will live a long, and happy, life.
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Old 01-03-2016, 07:42 PM   #37
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... Wrote up an offer from that guy to buy a boat, asking $1,500,000 and his offer was $1,000,000. The seller made a reasonable counter offer, the buyer would not go up a dollar. Instead of calling me back he called a different broker to show him a boat here at the boatyard that I already showed to him around Dec 1st.....
Sounds like a form of negotiation, he still wants to buy it, but only at a bargain hunter price.
Hopefully you also meet some decent genuine people who are a pleasure to work with.
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Old 05-17-2016, 07:02 PM   #38
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Hello ' bcam '

Do you still have those broker contacts? Do they service people from the Seattle area? Does a broker give help/advice on surveys-financing-insurance-moorage to a newbie?
I am just starting my search and learning the whole process. My aim is a live-aboard, below 100K, without major repairs needed. I cannot tell from reading the broker stories, if this is still doable in the PNW? Obviously, if I use the services of a broker, by being a total beginner, I would heavily rely on the broker's knowledge and honesty. I cannot afford a ' bad ' purchase. Thanks.
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Old 05-18-2016, 11:07 AM   #39
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You might want to consider looking into a " buyers broker " - they in theory, work for you as the buyer -
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Old 05-18-2016, 05:18 PM   #40
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buyer broker

I am planning to hire a broker, but it would help to find the right one, based on recommendation from people, who already had good experience with one.
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