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Old 04-21-2017, 07:38 PM   #1
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Another Documentation Issue

Bought my (documented) boat November 2016 and within a few days of purchase submitted the CG1258 form and Bill of Sale to exchange the documentation to our Trust, the new owner. This is not the first time I have done this - did the same with our last two boats. Near the end of February I received a letter explaining that the application could not be filed due to the wording of the Trust and the Trustees. I resubmitted it in February, according to their wording (requiring notarization and further fees), then heard back today that on the next line the wrong ownership box was checked (just like it had been originally). Also, today, I was told that the "Other Owners" information on the CG1258 form was wrong, since my wife is also a Trustee, and I have to change that. Anytime a change is made, your application goes to the end of the line. I now have to resubmit another application & Bill of Sale and wait another three months to see if there is anything else they don't like about my paperwork...

By that time, I had planned on being in Canada, on my way to Alaska. Now I'm concerned that I will not have my documentation, and there might be a hassle getting the boat across the border - 9 months after the original application was files.
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Old 04-21-2017, 08:48 PM   #2
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Bought my (documented) boat November 2016 and within a few days of purchase submitted the CG1258 form and Bill of Sale to exchange the documentation to our Trust, the new owner. This is not the first time I have done this - did the same with our last two boats. Near the end of February I received a letter explaining that the application could not be filed due to the wording of the Trust and the Trustees. I resubmitted it in February, according to their wording (requiring notarization and further fees), then heard back today that on the next line the wrong ownership box was checked (just like it had been originally). Also, today, I was told that the "Other Owners" information on the CG1258 form was wrong, since my wife is also a Trustee, and I have to change that. Anytime a change is made, your application goes to the end of the line. I now have to resubmit another application & Bill of Sale and wait another three months to see if there is anything else they don't like about my paperwork...

By that time, I had planned on being in Canada, on my way to Alaska. Now I'm concerned that I will not have my documentation, and there might be a hassle getting the boat across the border - 9 months after the original application was files.
Did you request Priority Handling because of your departure date?
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Old 04-21-2017, 08:51 PM   #3
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Wow when I bought mine last year I got all paperwork done in 1 week. I forgot to fill in some field and the lady sent me an email to ask me to provide missing info. After 1 scan and 1 email everything was done. I was expecting so much more headache!
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Old 04-21-2017, 09:07 PM   #4
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Did you request Priority Handling because of your departure date?

No -- in November of last year I didn't think time would be an issue. I'm planning on giving them a call on Monday...
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Old 04-21-2017, 09:22 PM   #5
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Lou-

I'm assuming, by your address, that you went through the Canadian system. Not to disparage the US, nor the USCG (which I highly admire), but there seems to be increasing delays in many of the US Federal systems. I recently got a notice that the US Merchant Marine Credentialing is seeing up to a 9 month delay due to, among other things, a lack of "qualified evaluators."
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Old 04-21-2017, 09:46 PM   #6
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I think Craig posted this a couple of days ago. It seems appropriate with this thread.
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:29 PM   #7
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Perfect.

I find myself in the same fix.
Waiting for the re-issue of my Document so I can leave Golfito.
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:38 PM   #8
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Too late now, but those are examples of times when using a documentation service (not one of the scam services but a real professional one) is worth the cost.
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Old 04-22-2017, 10:44 AM   #9
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Too late now, but those are examples of times when using a documentation service (not one of the scam services but a real professional one) is worth the cost.

On the last two boats that I've purchased, I used a marine title company that also took care of the initial boat documentation. Certainly not necessary, but it made things so smoothly. For all renewals, I have done it myself.
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Old 04-22-2017, 11:05 AM   #10
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On the last two boats that I've purchased, I used a marine title company that also took care of the initial boat documentation. Certainly not necessary, but it made things so smoothly. For all renewals, I have done it myself.
We've done the same thing. First time, documentation company. Afterwards, self. Any ownership changes, we would use a marine title/documentation company. We've had most done priority as well, since we did have immediate cruises out of the country planned. In your area, most are going to Canada. In our home area, most to the Bahamas.
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Old 04-22-2017, 11:47 AM   #11
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You guys must not be smiling to the right Govt Gods. I did my renewal online on the evening of 4/14 (after their business hours) and got my new certificate yesterday. Five days including mail time.
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Old 04-22-2017, 11:56 AM   #12
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You guys must not be smiling to the right Govt Gods. I did my renewal online on the evening of 4/14 (after their business hours) and got my new certificate yesterday. Five days including mail time.
Straight renewals are easy. The OP didn't have such as that.
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Old 04-22-2017, 02:27 PM   #13
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I agree. First time to document a vessel or ownership change I use a service (less than $200.00 (II RC) all renewals I do by snail mail and a check.
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Old 04-22-2017, 02:47 PM   #14
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all renewals I do by snail mail and a check.
Snail mail and check? We renew online. The other thing, even if something new or a change, I'd recommend PDF over mail. Fax as second choice. They no longer require originals.
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Old 04-22-2017, 04:26 PM   #15
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I'm the most unlucky guy when it come to the Internet. LOL. I'm safer using snail mail, I know I'm the only one perhaps it's because I'm computer illerate and use a Mac. ��
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Old 04-22-2017, 06:03 PM   #16
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I'm the most unlucky guy when it come to the Internet. LOL. I'm safer using snail mail, I know I'm the only one perhaps it's because I'm computer illerate and use a Mac. ��
Wifey B: Macaroni and cheese? No wonder.
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Old 04-22-2017, 07:54 PM   #17
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Young lady you misunderstand, it's not Macaroni and cheese but Mac and cheesecake.

You and your hubby are teaming up on me. LOL
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Old 04-22-2017, 08:53 PM   #18
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Bought my (documented) boat November 2016 and within a few days of purchase submitted the CG1258 form and Bill of Sale to exchange the documentation to our Trust, the new owner. This is not the first time I have done this - did the same with our last two boats. Near the end of February I received a letter explaining that the application could not be filed due to the wording of the Trust and the Trustees. I resubmitted it in February, according to their wording (requiring notarization and further fees), then heard back today that on the next line the wrong ownership box was checked (just like it had been originally). Also, today, I was told that the "Other Owners" information on the CG1258 form was wrong, since my wife is also a Trustee, and I have to change that. Anytime a change is made, your application goes to the end of the line. I now have to resubmit another application & Bill of Sale and wait another three months to see if there is anything else they don't like about my paperwork...

By that time, I had planned on being in Canada, on my way to Alaska. Now I'm concerned that I will not have my documentation, and there might be a hassle getting the boat across the border - 9 months after the original application was files.
What was the wording of the trust and trustees that they didn't like? (and there's really no wording of the trustee, it's only xxxxx entity, as trustee, period. And a trust does NOT have to be notarized. However, the actual back page of the Certificate of Documentation does have to be notarized to show a title transfer.

You don't have to provide a trust at all, just the name of the Managing Owner who could be the trustee. And you really don't have to list the beneficiaries (prohibited in some states, but another issue). On section L of the 1258 form, you can list trustees/beneficiaries if you wish, I just list the trustee, as the legal owner of the trust property is the trustee.

Now...when dealing with government, nothing is easy or on time, but they will answer their phone and you can explain things and they will help. However, it's not uncommon to take several months for the documentation certificate to get to you. It's just the way govt works.

(not an attorney, no legal advise given, but I do go to trust class every other year)
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Old 04-23-2017, 01:21 AM   #19
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The Trust wording issue was on the Bill of Sale, not the Exchange application. The Bill of Sale must be notarized. According to the USCG, the Trust cannot be the buyer, the Trustees must be the buyer on behalf of the Trust. However, on the Exchange application, only one Trustee can be designated as the Managing Owner. In my case (as in probably many other cases) my wife and I are the only two Trustees. This means that if I designate myself as the Managing Owner, my wife's name is nowhere on the Documentation. Even under the heading of Other Owners, she should not be designated since it is the Trust that owns the boat, not either of us. This means that if she were operating the boat without me on board (well within her capabilities) and had to prove ownership, it might end up very complicated. It means carrying an extra layer of paperwork to prove that she is a Trustee.

I have also been advised by the CG that her name and SSN must be on the Exchange somewhere, but it is not clear where.

I have found that working with different people gets you different answers...
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Old 04-23-2017, 02:39 AM   #20
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... This means that if she were operating the boat without me on board (well within her capabilities) and had to prove ownership, it might end up very complicated. It means carrying an extra layer of paperwork to prove that she is a Trustee.

I have also been advised by the CG that her name and SSN must be on the Exchange somewhere, but it is not clear where.
...
As to the first bit, carrying the extra docs instantly struck me as the answer. Once you have the docs(?notarized certified copies of something), that`s it done.
No idea about the second part. ? ask them where they want it.
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