Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-18-2018, 04:05 AM   #1
Newbie
 
City: Klagenfurt
Country: Austria
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 2
2003 Grand Banks 42 Europa purchase help

Hello to all Trawler owners and trawler specialists.

I am new to your forum and hopefully I can soon become as well part of your community as a Trawler owner. I am a sailor for past 25 years and decided its time for more comfort on the water. Therefore I would like to kindly ask you for your help and suggestions.

I was searching for 2 years for a nice trawler, I have looked already many boats of different makes across Europe without success as the trawlers were in a very bad condition and the asked prices way too high.

But lately I ran by luck into a Grand Banks 42 Europa single engine basically just around the corner. This boat is there for years and I was running by all the time until i recognised it.

It is a Single engined 42 produced in 2003. it has a caterpillar with 470 hp according to its owner. The problem, this boat was not in water in last 5 years and there was no maintenance done to it for 5 years. It was taken out of water and since then it is left untouched for that long period outside where birds are putting their mess on it and it is raining on it. The outside condition is therefore quite bad. I think that the gelcoat can be brought to shine again with a thorough washing and polishing. The wood needs more attention, some parts need to be replaced i am sure.

My major concerns are regards the engine and generator. What can go wrong when this systems dont run for that long? I have no experience with this engine or generator. What needs to get replaced immediately as a precaution?

This boat has a lot of potential for sure but it needs a lot of attention, work and investments to get it back to its status a GB deserves.

This brings up the big and difficult question what such a boat is worth?

Does maybe anyone of you have the new boat price sheet from around the millenium year 2000 with the options available of this GB model or know where to get it from? I would like to see what was standard on this boat and what available as option. This would help as a start for sure.

This 42 only has one engine, it is equipped with sternthruster, bowthruster, hydraulic gangway, radar, the instruments are probably outdated. it has no roll stabilisers.

What would you pay for such a boat in this condition?

How does a GB behave with just one engine? Until today i only have seen two engined 42.

I will be very thankful for your help.

Best Regards,
Johann
__________________
Advertisement

Anda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2018, 05:58 AM   #2
Guru
 
AusCan's Avatar
 
City: Adelaide
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Kokanee
Vessel Model: Cuddles 30 Pilot House Motor Sailer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,502
Welcome Anda!

It sounds like this could be a very nice boat, it is tough to say. I wouldn't be concerned about having only one engine, especially with bow & stern thrusters.

Pricing varies significantly between regions, so the in the USA or Australia may be very much different from the price in Austria.

A boat sitting for 5 years develops a lot of accumulated maintenance requirements, although most of it would be visual. An engine should have oil and filter change prior to running. Some suggest priming the oil lubrication system well by extended cranking over the engine without starting. After 5 years I'd expect some hoses or belts to be drying out and cracking, but no major issues as long as it was watertight. The batteries may be at the end of their life, and there will probably be simple electric issues due to corrosion at connections. All fairly minor issues, although they can be a PITA.
__________________

AusCan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2018, 07:47 AM   #3
Guru
 
seasalt007's Avatar
 
City: Punta Gorda, FL
Country: U.S.
Vessel Name: Aweigh
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 42
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 630
470 hp sounds more like a 31 series Cat rather than a 3208, so...

I would start by pulling the aftercooler and all heat exchangers off for checking/cleaning. I am thinking that the aftercooler on that particular engine needs to be updated so the Cat dealer should be consulted.
seasalt007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2018, 09:55 AM   #4
Guru
 
City: Fort Myers
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,032
The usual, fluids, rubber hoses, impellars, filters, belts, battery's. Good news its a single so you won't get too killed on costs.
Marlinmike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2018, 12:03 PM   #5
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,047
What is the exact Cat engine model? Go to boatdiesel.com and look up the good and bad things about that specific engine. Is there a reputable Cat marine shop or facility near the boat that could assess the engine's health, called a mechanical survey?

Without knowing the costs to bring the entire vessel back to "current" the worth is difficult to know. Surveys and sea trials are needed.
sunchaser is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2018, 01:28 PM   #6
Guru
 
Xsbank's Avatar
 
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Vancouver Shipyards Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,920
Having been left outside in the rain, a further concern could be wood rot if it has teak decks or wood windows? Check the top deck, look for discolouration or damp in the cabins, look under the ceilings of closets, etc. Make sure the deck fuel fittings are not leaking and allowing water to sit on top (or inside!) the tanks. Sewage hoses will likely be permeated and need replacing. GBs are solid boats, but they need to be maintained.
__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
Xsbank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2018, 01:51 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
BrisHamish's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Beluga
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 46eu 2006 hull#289
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 114
I agree with Seasalt - 470hp sounds too much for a 3208, so given the age of the boat the engine is likely to be a 31 series. Maybe 3116? If that is the case, then as Seasalt says you would probably need a new updated aftercooler (both the exterior structure and the internal core). CAT will be able to supply this no problem, but it wonít be a cheap item (in Australia it would cost about AUD$15k per engine). However once you have the updated design aftercooler, it basically cures all the original aftercooler woes on CAT 31 series engines which you find in older posts on the web.

Xsbank is correct about water leaks via the deck fill points for fuel and water - they can allow rainwater to penetrate and sit on top of the tanks. Itís a common issue with GBs, but provided the fuel tanks havenít rusted through due to the water, it can be fairly easily and reasonably inexpensively repaired.

Another thought if it hasnít been mentioned already - you will definitely need new impellers in the raw water pumps for the engine and the genset. Not a big deal and not expensive, but nevertheless important so something that you will need to attend to.

Hamish.
BrisHamish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2018, 02:43 PM   #8
Guru
 
Xsbank's Avatar
 
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Vancouver Shipyards Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,920
This boat will not be usable immediately, plan to spend some time going over the neglected maintenance to get her ready. It’s a beautiful boat but make sure you factor all your labour and costs into her purchase. Don’t overpay!
__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
Xsbank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2018, 10:53 PM   #9
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 8,713
The genset will need the same preparation as the main engine.
Were there soft block issues with the Euro built Cat 3116? I could be in error here.
My limited experience of disused car engines is, they start, and run, but soon show signs of accelerated wear. But,that could be because the prep advised above was not done.
Won`t it have been snowed on, as well a rained on? And your summers can be hot, so it`s had a hard time in the weather.
Great boats, but PWC (proceed with caution).
Value has to be lower than price in good condition less cost of repairs, you need compensation for what you are about to go through restoring it,and risking it. Whatever you allow probably won`t be enough. The owner has probably mentally written it off in terms of value, certainly seems to have little interest in it. Make sure there is not some nasty problem that caused it to go on hardstand 5yrs ago, and stay there.
__________________
BruceK
Island Gypsy 36 Europa "Doriana"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 12:58 AM   #10
Guru
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Country: US
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,370
Anything can be fixed, just a question of time and money. As stated before check on Boatdiesel for common problems with the particular engine. Plan on all fluids, hoses, belts and impellers to be changed. I think by then GB was glueing the teak decks down instead of screwing them, but I am not a GB expert, so check. Look on the decks for plugs, if there are plugs then the decks are screwed down and the potential for leaks goes way up. Check for leaks as mentioned, sound out the stringers for rot. Look for pooling water anywhere and also look for stains. They are good boats. It is worth what someone is willing to pay for it, but after being on the hard for five years, it is worth much less than a properly maintained one. Good luck. Hope it works out to your benefit.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 07:11 AM   #11
Guru
 
djmarchand's Avatar
 
City: Litchfield, Ct/Punta Gorda, Fl
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Atlas Pompano 23- outboard
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,758
A single engine Grand Banks 42 is very unusual, particularly one built in 2003. It will have limited market appeal as probably 98% of buyers of that type of boat want twin engines.

So it is hard to say about price. Yachtworld, the US based website for yacht listings only has three single engine 42s in its database of sold boat prices in the 2000-2006 range. There were 150 twins sold in that period.

The prices for those three range from $285,000 to $575,000 so take that info for what it is worth.

If it doesn't have them I would definitely add bow and stern thrusters.

I would offer what the boat is worth to you considering all of the maintenance that will be required to bring it up to usable condition.

David
djmarchand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 10:36 AM   #12
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 8,981
IMO - If you feel boat can be resurrected then go for it! However... I'd start REALLY, REALLY low on my offering price. Low enough so that you can't get hurt. What has been mentioned here by others regarding potential concerns/problems could mount up to tens of thousand $$$ as well as hundreds of hours personal effort.

Good Luck!
Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 10:59 AM   #13
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,068
Greetings,
Mr. A. Welcome aboard. In addition to the good advice you have received thus far, I'll offer my opinion...
There IS a reason that particular boat has been sitting unused and uncared for for 5 years. I can only speculate what that reason may be BUT it could be for a VERY expensive reason. Previous sinking, bad engine or an engine in need of expen$ive repairs, bad transmission, hull, deck or house problems...If it was stored in a region that sees freezing temperatures, that adds a whole new level of complexity and potential fatal damage.

I would not make any decisions or offers before a survey or at LEAST a good inspection by someone very familiar with that particular model of GB. Any information you get from the owner is suspect, either through dishonesty or ignorance by the owner of what may be wrong.

Forget about the fact that it is a GB and it may be worth XXX when it is cleaned up and ready to leave the dock. Right now it is simply a commodity that may or may not be worth investing in.

Do NOT get frustrated at your lack of success in finding YOUR boat. Do NOT get emotional, in ANY way when looking at THIS boat.
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2018, 06:46 PM   #14
Newbie
 
City: Klagenfurt
Country: Austria
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 2
Dear Friends,

I have to really thank you all for your honest replies and your knowledge shared with me. This will help me a lot.

You have written exactly many same thoughts that I had and confirmed many important points. Also for me an important first question is how can someone be that ignorant to let such an expansive boat sit untouched for around 5 years uncovered and exposed. What I know for now the owner got old and cant go on the boat by himself anymore. He has a lot of money and owns 5 boats in total, much bigger ones that this GB42 where he can be on the sea comfortably by having staff on the boat. If this is really the case I could at least understand a little bit that he left this beautiful boat for that long.

I have to thank you as well for your replies to the price that again remind me of something very important, that I need to stay calm without emotions taking over and making the offer just when I have made a thorough inspection and analysis what needs to be repaired at what costs and time to bring this boat again to the status it deserves.

A survey from a GB specialist will be hard to get at our place as surveyors are not that common. I have good mechanics that I will take with me to inspect the mechanical parts and to get a list what needs to be changed. I already have thought that the heat exchangers will have to be changed besides all other rubber hoses, impellers, filters etc. Thank you also for the tip to check everything on the boatdiesel page that I did not know about.

BrisHamish, thank you for the tip regards the new updated aftercooler and the estimate. this helps a lot as a starting point to go into the right direction.

Locally there are now on offer 3 other GB 46 MY that are equipped with 2x 3208 engines and some have stabilisers as well, so at least 100000$ more expensive when new than this 42. One is make 1995 with really nice maintenance (no stabilisers) and has currently a price of 219000Ä tax paid and this is not last price. I think this would go for around 180k cash. The prices that some GB are beeing offered for are very high and not real to my knowledge and as much as I have seen for now the prices that the boats change the owners are much lower. What do you think? Has someone of you some real records at what prices the GB 42 to 46 change the owners? Is a price of around 180kÄ a fair offer for a 46MY 1995 that is in very good condition?

This then brings the next question, how much would such a 42 Europa 2003 be worth to you when it would be in perfect condition? This would help me to get at least a starting point. As much as I have seen this boat had a new price of around 500000$ (USD) (single engine, no stabilisers) back in 2003, is this right?

I have good news, I will meet the owner tomorrow for a first chat in person and to hopefully agree on a visit and inspection of the boat. Then I can make a good analysis and try to make a fair offer for both sides. Lets hold thumbs that this goes well and the owner can understand the problems and condition he put his boat in and we can proceed to good boat inspection and fair price talk.

I will keep you informed.

Best Regards,
Johann
Anda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2018, 07:57 PM   #15
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 8,981
Johann - Your words show fairness of thought. Best luck! - Art
Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2018, 10:46 PM   #16
Veteran Member
 
Padeen's Avatar
 
City: Seattle
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Maverick
Vessel Model: Cobalt 293
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 81
Why not ask the seller what his price is, rather than make an offer?

You might get a sense of how motivated he is based on this, bearing in mind that it will not be an easy sale for him given the single and lack of maintenance.
Padeen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2018, 10:59 PM   #17
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 8,713
The in good order value you need to establish is the value where you are. Not the US value,Australian value, etc.
Can you come to a value using the 3 others for sale? Weight them, this one is a little older, this one is newer, this one has 2 engines,this one is better, etc.You might get a figure.
The value is not "good order value less cost of repair to good order". If you buy it I suspect(old Aussie expression) you will be dragged backwards through the briar bush doing the repairs,and you need to compensate yourself for that. And for the defects you don`t pick up, allow a 10% contingency for that alone.
And I agree entirely with asking the seller for his price. Is it on the market, is there already an asking price?
You owe it to yourself to look at the others which don`t need rescuing from disaster. I don`t want to start a "single vs twins" discussion, but people expect twins on one of those,that expectation alone is enough to downgrade the value of this one. And there is good reason for people to want/expect twins.
__________________
BruceK
Island Gypsy 36 Europa "Doriana"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2018, 08:54 PM   #18
Veteran Member
 
JohnS's Avatar
 
City: Indianapolis
Country: USA
Vessel Name: MV La Vita Dolce
Vessel Model: Cheoy Lee 40 LRC
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 38
Survey options

You mentioned that it might be hard to find a surveyor, you might be able, either yourself or with the help of a mechanic, do an initial survey yourself, and import a professional if you find problems and still want to proceed.
The web site Welcome To Property and Casualty Surveys Inc has a DIY survey form and instructions. It will not help you to estimat the cost of repairs, so you may want to find, and perhaps pay, a qualified marine repair facility to help you determine the cost of repsirs, and the value of the boat as it is now.
Formy own use, I presumed tat anything that I saw which was possibly defective needed replacement .
Good luck with your search, purchase, and transition to the trawler cruising lifestyle.
Welcome aboard.
__________________
Fair winds and following seas. JohnS
JohnS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2018, 07:20 AM   #19
Veteran Member
 
auskiwi's Avatar
 
City: Goldcoast
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Moana
Vessel Model: 1996 M40 Riviera aft cab
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 45
If it is a 3116, forget it, more trouble than they are worth, spoke to my Cat trained mechanic only this morning re them, he was less polite about the 3116 than myself.
auskiwi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2018, 07:48 AM   #20
Guru
 
Xsbank's Avatar
 
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Vancouver Shipyards Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,920
A single engine is a blessing, IMHO. Les maintenance, less noise, less fuel, more room in the engine room...you will need to learn to handle a single but its a great and rewarding challenge. That boat probably has a thruster or two anyway so you will not feel it is inadequate.

If the boat is in disrepair, it will need more investment than the discount unless it is VERY generous. Even a well-maintained example at a higher cost will need continued work. Do not look at this boat as a bargain but if you are handy and motivated it could be a rewarding project; don't ever think it is a bargain!
__________________

__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
Xsbank is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012