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Old 11-02-2018, 04:09 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by djmarchand View Post
Not to be too much of a SA, but the answers are based on engineering principles and I are one. Also several years of experience winterizing my boat.

So if you donít believe me then dump 10 gallons of pink stuff in your empty water tanks and pump it through.

David
I was able to find the T and connection. There are two different types of hoses used. The clear hose and blue hose. Can both safely expand without cracking in freezing temps?
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Old 11-02-2018, 04:58 PM   #22
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I would replace the elbow that connects to the blue hose with a 3 way ball valve. Screw the ball valve into the existing Tee fitting. Connect the blue hose to one side of the valve. Flip the valve to the other side and it will allow both tanks to drain. (Assuming that each of the clear hoses goes to a tank) That should allow everything up to the pump to drain. Nice and easy every year. Or just unscrew the elbow every year to drain.
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Old 11-02-2018, 07:40 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Easting View Post
I would replace the elbow that connects to the blue hose with a 3 way ball valve. Screw the ball valve into the existing Tee fitting. Connect the blue hose to one side of the valve. Flip the valve to the other side and it will allow both tanks to drain. (Assuming that each of the clear hoses goes to a tank) That should allow everything up to the pump to drain. Nice and easy every year. Or just unscrew the elbow every year to drain.
Unfortunately there is no access to this without removing the generator. Also unfortunately the connection at the tank is not plumbed in the bottom so I dont think it will be possible to fully drain the tank without dropping in an auxiliary pump. Any idea how to open this red port hole?
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Old 11-04-2018, 05:38 AM   #24
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Mystery
Have you traced the blue hose?
It looks like it runs uphill and makes me wonder if it is really a drain? Especially if you say the clear hoses don't go to the bottom of the tanks. Are the clear hoses the only connection between the tanks? And is FW pump inlet off one tank?
If so that would imply you can't empty the second tank or even utilize all of the water it holds in normal use?
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Old 11-04-2018, 01:03 PM   #25
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Mystery
Have you traced the blue hose?
It looks like it runs uphill and makes me wonder if it is really a drain? Especially if you say the clear hoses don't go to the bottom of the tanks. Are the clear hoses the only connection between the tanks? And is FW pump inlet off one tank?
If so that would imply you can't empty the second tank or even utilize all of the water it holds in normal use?
The blue hose goes to the freshwater pump. It does appear to go up hill a bit. The clear reinforced hoses are towards the bottoms of the freshwater tanks but not completely plumbed at the bottom. The T connection you see is the entirety of the connection between the water tanks and fresh water pump. I am concerned whether the blue line can tolerate freezing.
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Old 11-04-2018, 03:32 PM   #26
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I strongly recommend that y'all read post #22 "Winterizing Plumbing" in this "winterizing" thread:

Winterizing

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Old 11-04-2018, 06:51 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by mystery View Post
The blue hose goes to the freshwater pump. It does appear to go up hill a bit. The clear reinforced hoses are towards the bottoms of the freshwater tanks but not completely plumbed at the bottom. The T connection you see is the entirety of the connection between the water tanks and fresh water pump. I am concerned whether the blue line can tolerate freezing.
Got it.
Even if the blue hose / tubing will take it the brass fitings likely will not if that line & T have water in it.
If you can add a drain at the low point tgat would do it.
Water left in bottom of the tank should be OK as long as fittings are not full.
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Old 11-05-2018, 10:25 AM   #28
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I have a creative thought... If I can somehow add weight to the bow, that may allow the water to level off and drain from the tanks. Right now the connection is at the front of the tank and if the bow is inclined any degrees, the water will not be level, have a natural tendency to sit towards the back half of the tank, and the drain in the front sits dry. Instead of inviting a bunch of people over to stand on the bow, I wonder if I can buy a cheap bag and fill with water on the bow, once done, empty, and stow for next year.
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Old 11-05-2018, 03:01 PM   #29
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Two thoughts for the original poster:
1) On your main engines and gen, consider inspecting/replacing the zincs. Close the seacocks, drain seawater from drains/nipples (at least on my engines) and then replace the zincs before running pink through.

2)Check out Seaflush.com for great videos and their seaflush tool for putting antifreeze into engine/gen/ac systems and also as a convenient way to use a shopvac to blow water out the seacock in the bottom of the boat while it is floating.

Stay warm:-)
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Old 11-05-2018, 04:02 PM   #30
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Two thoughts for the original poster:
1) On your main engines and gen, consider inspecting/replacing the zincs. Close the seacocks, drain seawater from drains/nipples (at least on my engines) and then replace the zincs before running pink through.

2)Check out Seaflush.com for great videos and their seaflush tool for putting antifreeze into engine/gen/ac systems and also as a convenient way to use a shopvac to blow water out the seacock in the bottom of the boat while it is floating.

Stay warm:-)
Thanks. Anodes are on the list but to be more specific, yes, good idea to check all anodes. There are more than a dozen on this model.
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Old 11-05-2018, 04:03 PM   #31
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Alright so my idea about adding ballast to the bow to try to get water out of the freshwater tanks did not work, at least with 1200+ pounds of ballast. I am now back to square one...
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Old 11-05-2018, 11:05 PM   #32
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Thank you very much for the advice!

Regarding the engine/genset winterization, if I just pour into the strainer then what happens with the seawater between the thru-hull / seacock and the strainer? I think that can freeze and cause damage?

I close strainer, use a shopvac to empty and fill with antifreeze and since my genset use an external pump as it has no raw water pump so I winterize using its own pump. If boat sits in water, the hull side of sea cock is in water and the bilge side has the antifreeze from the strainer

Regarding the hot water heater exchange loop, its coolant from the engine resevoir or where does it originate? I am worried that if I continue to run the engines, there is hot coolant circulating in the loop but the hot water heater is empty and thus nothing to heat (or in the case of filling it with antifreeze, its heating antifreeze which may hurt the antifreezing abilities). I just don't want to damage my hot water heater.

That would be engine coolant circulating. Only need to be concerned if the electric heating element is on with no liquid to heat. Usually worst case is a replacement element.

Regarding adding antifreeze into the water tanks, what happens to the hose between the tanks and the pump? Water left in that section can freeze?

My favorite is a friend that blows out his freshwater system with compressed air then pours a couple gallons of cheap vodka in tanks. Spring commissioning must be a lot of fun

Regarding the city water connection, how can it back flow if it has nowhere to exit? I think the city water connection is a one-way valve? Unless I can somehow figure out how to open it so antifreeze shoots out of the connection...

I have $39 Harbor Freight 12v pump with garden hose fittings. I made up a couple hoses for various systems. I do city water first. Turn off water pressure pump, connect my 12v HF pump to regulator, open a faucet and a gallon later should have pink from faucet as it only has to travel to a T near the house water pump

Thank you for the great idea on blowing out the shaft line and closing while blowing. I will have to look at my larger thruhulls and see if I can drain the ball cavity. I would simple close, unscrew, drain, and leave closed?

Thanks so much!!
After 2 seasons of ownership I discovered an AC freshwater flush from house water and I used it to drain my water tanks through the 3 AC systems and then use the HF pump to run pink through the units through the same hoses. I have a manifold and long runs so I used 5 gallons to be very pink. I had to remember washing machine, raw water wash down pump, dockside water filter, engine room freshwater faucet and transom shower

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Old 11-08-2018, 08:03 AM   #33
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So I ordered a drum bung wrench to try to open the red access port but it did not work as it kept slipping. I then tried using my reverso oil change pump to suck water out but that did not work as I assumed it wouldn't. Finally, I got 1/2" hose, inserted into shopvac hose, taped a seal as best as I could, then taped the other end to a skinny piece of wood, and was able to suck out most of the remaining water through the fill port on the tank. Somewhere between 5-10 gallons per tank of water came out.

I then used the cheap Camco blow out fitting through the shore water connection, blew out all of the fixtures, then I added the antifreeze to the tanks, and ran it through all the fixtures. Not happy about adding antifreeze into the tanks etc but I did not see another way without easy accessibility to the T connection. I think the tanks took ~7 gallons of antifreeze each before the freshwater pump would start pumping the pink stuff through (this is with the hot water heater bypassed). I used an extra gallon or two to make sure everything was good to go so 16 gallons total just on the freshwater system.
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Old 11-08-2018, 08:16 AM   #34
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Mystery
I'm assuming that blue hose is accessible at the water pump.
You might consider installing a winterization valve there which would let you pump pink thru pump and FW plumbing / fixtures w/o having to put the lg vol of pink into the tank.
Then you need to protect the T fitting and blue tubing. That could be done by blowing compressed air back into the tank and pumping a smaller vol of pink back to the tanks.
It would take a few fittings but would result in much less pink in the tanks you have to flush.
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Old 11-13-2018, 09:12 AM   #35
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Adding to list:
- Add distilled water to batteries
- Turn off breakers for winterized pumps etc to prevent accidental operation and to remember to commission things before use
- Blow out water from sea water hoses through thruhulls using compressor/shop vac attachment

Removing from list:
- Fuel stabilizer: I have decided against introducing anything unnecessary to the diesel
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Old 11-14-2018, 11:01 AM   #36
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Working on the engine winterization now...

My plan:

- Connect the 1.5" raw water intake hose to some additional length of 1.5" hose using a coupler in order for it to reach into a five gallon bucket with antifreeze. I was originally planning to use a Sea Flush funnel kit or TRAC Flush Cap but neither seem to be compatible with the Vetus 1320 sea water strainers.

- Blow out the line from the strainer to the thruhull using a shop vac, close the seacock once done. May also pour antifreeze into this hose.

- Run engines at idle sucking up the antifreeze until I see the proper color exiting the exhaust. I am guessing at least five gallons per engine and maybe an extra gallon or two for good measure.

Is that sufficient to winterize the Volvo D4?

Some additional questions:

1. I read online about siphon breaks and introducing antifreeze at a height higher than the engines. I donīt see any siphon breaks. My seawater strainers are mounted a bit high probably at the height of the tops of the engines themselves. I am used to seawater strainers being mounted much lower. Do I have to worry about any water/antifreeze siphoning back into the engines? Should I make sure the bucket of antifreeze is located on the engine room floor versus up above the engines?

2. In the attached screen capture from the manual, should I drain at these three drains? Are those raw water or coolant drains? It is unclear as the section is titled "Seawater draining" but the steps reference "coolant". If that is seawater, does it still need to be drained even when introducing antifreeze as I plan to? If so, what tools do I need to open those three fittings?

3. During spring commissioning, is there a way to prime the seawater system (like is done to prime/bleed the fuel system after filters drained/changed)? If I drain seawater, I would be worried of the impellers running dry and breaking apart. What about when changing the zinc anodes on the engines as some seawater drains out during that change?

4. What is the drain in the other picture I have attached? I have a separate drain connection I use for oil changes and trying to figure out what this one is for...

5. Finally, any thoughts on using a diesel fuel stabilizer? I have always used on my gasoline engines but it seems there are two schools of thought for diesel: a) leave it alone, b) add stabilizer. The diesel will sit 5-6 months in cold temperatures.
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:40 PM   #37
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I've seen a lot of posts devoted to winterizing the engines and fresh water system, but the only mention of the sanitation system was this in the first post:

Waste:
- Ensure waste tank is not full
- Pour antifreeze into toilets, flush
- Does anything need to be done to the overboard waste discharge other than ensuring the thruhull is closed?

Yes!! Not only to the overboard discharge but the entire system...why would you even think of laying up the boat for the winter with any sewage in tank??

SANITATION SYSTEM
Step 1/ Prep for winterizing:

Pump holding tank out, then rinse thoroughly to flush out any sludge. This does not require filling the tank and can even be done with sea water. Here’s how:
Put enough water into the tank via the deck pumpout fitting—because that sends the water into the tank at the bottom to stir up any sludge and hold it in suspension so it can be flushed out-- to cover the bottom to a depth of at least three inches. Pump that out. Repeat…repeat…repeat…till you’re pumping out clean water. Then add water one more time and turn on the macerator to rinse it out along with the overboard discharge plumbing.

Alternatively, you can use a washdown pump to do the whole job. Stick the nozzle into the deck pumpout out fitting and turn on the water. When the depth reaches a couple of inches, leave the water running and turn on the macerator Let both run till the water runs clean (it may be best to do this offshore outside the “3 mile limit”).
Btw, this should be done at least 2-3x a season, more often if live aboard or use your boat year round.

Now you’re ready to winterize the system.

Sea water toilet, manual or electric:

Just flushing antifreeze through the bowl will NOT protect the intake line, the toilet pump or the bowl...it'll only go out the discharge to the tank. To protect the whole system, it's necessary to close the toilet intake through-hull, disconnect inlet hose and stick it in a gallon of non-toxic ("the pink stuff") antifreeze. Pump the whole gallon through the system into the holding tank. Do not reconnect head intake hose to the through-hull.

Fresh water toilet: If your toilet uses onboard pressurized fresh water, you winterized it when you winterized your fresh water system. All that remains is, flush the appropriate amount of non-toxic antifreeze ("the pink stuff") down the toilet into the tank and you’re done.

Do not use antifreeze in an ElectroScan, Lectra/San, PuraSan, or any other Type I or Type II MSD. Follow manufacturers instructions to winterize all Type I and II MSDs.

After the boat comes out of the water, open all the sea cocks to drain any trapped water.

And you’re done.


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Old 11-14-2018, 07:46 PM   #38
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Valve is to drain the coolant from the engine
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Old 11-14-2018, 09:14 PM   #39
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Valve is to drain the coolant from the engine
Thanks. That will make it easier to change. I ordered test strips to check the status of the coolant. Fingers crossed I can get another year!
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