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Old 08-28-2018, 09:13 AM   #1
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ST44 and Steadying Sail

Waiting for my new ST44 arrival (october) I'm just wondering if there's any way to prevent the boat "tacking" left and right while at anchor.

I'm used to sailboats, and normally I keep a little mizzen sail to prevent this: do you think that the mast on the ST44 is strong enough to rig a small sail?

That will also be useful for minimizing rolling while under way..

Thanks

Federico
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Old 08-29-2018, 10:43 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Roidagobert View Post
Waiting for my new ST44 arrival (october) I'm just wondering if there's any way to prevent the boat "tacking" left and right while at anchor.

I'm used to sailboats, and normally I keep a little mizzen sail to prevent this: do you think that the mast on the ST44 is strong enough to rig a small sail?

That will also be useful for minimizing rolling while under way..

Thanks

Federico
What do you mean by tacking left and right while at anchor? Do you mean just rolling side to side from wind/current/boat wakes?
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Old 08-29-2018, 11:01 AM   #3
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I'm used to sailboats, and normally I keep a little mizzen sail to prevent this: do you think that the mast on the ST44 is strong enough to rig a small sail?
Federico

Almost certainly not. Even a small steadying sail can produce large forces when the wind shifts suddenly or in a wind against current situation.


You might be able to add stays that will take the load, but it all depends on where and what they attach to.


And what is the problem with tacking at anchor?



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Old 08-29-2018, 02:57 PM   #4
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In my experience leaving the boat free to tack left and right for a long time (e.g. all night long) in strong wid conditions, may lead the anchor to drag, and even to a "deanchoring" (pls forgive my bad american).
Here in the med it is not uncommon to rig a staysail just to prevent this to happen.

I also thing that the ST44 mast "as is" will not take the load, and even adding some stay (not an easy task) I'm not sure the base will make it!
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Old 08-29-2018, 03:03 PM   #5
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In my experience leaving the boat free to tack left and right for a long time (e.g. all night long) in strong wid conditions, may lead the anchor to drag, and even to a "deanchoring" (pls forgive my bad american).
Here in the med it is not uncommon to rig a staysail just to prevent this to happen.

I also thing that the ST44 mast "as is" will not take the load, and even adding some stay (not an easy task) I'm not sure the base will make it!
Define strong wind. How many knots/mph? All coming from one direction or changing/alternating?

If you anchor properly, I don't think a boat bobbing up and down and swaying side to side will "de-anchor" a properly set anchor. You should have plenty of chain laying flat on the sea floor after you set your anchor (more scope in deeper water/bad conditions). Then you should use a bridle with anchor hook/snubber going to your two bow cleats or install an anchor chain lock or whatever its called. You should never leave the load on the windlass. Finally make sure you have the proper anchor type for the sea floor. Some times certain sea floors are just not good for anchoring. You have to know your limits and when it will not be wise to stay on anchor. I like to pick up a mooring when I know its going to be windy or if I am staying over night in an area where the wind changes direction.
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Old 08-29-2018, 04:44 PM   #6
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Right. I NEVER let the chain load directly on windlass, always anchor lock.
Strong winds means to me more than 40 knots. In 35 more years of med cruising, I often faced situation where 25kgs Delta anchor with 6/7 scopes of 10mm chains have been greatly improved by the staisail trick!
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Old 08-29-2018, 05:24 PM   #7
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We once put a small tarp up on the aft part of our boom and the cable that runs to the top of the mast from the boom end. It was probably only 6 feet long and 3 feet high at the widest, and tapered to a point at the aft end which was a couple feet short of the stern.

Despite its small size, it did an amazing job of settling down our 30' boat in about 30 knot winds.
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Old 08-29-2018, 05:53 PM   #8
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Hi Roidagobert

Putting aside the strength capability of the mast, such a sail will only help your boat face into the wind if the sail is as far aft as possible - you mentioned in your initial post a mizzen - perfect for a sail boat.

Unfortunately most "masts" on trawlers are too far forward to do this they might help as a steadying sail (rolling) but not for holding into the wind.

Another thing to consider - the deep keel of yachts and relatively low free board means they are more influenced by tide than wind so the mizzen would help to fight this. Vice versa for a power boat so in most cases, any reasonable breeze will win over tide. I know, in areas where there are big tides this doesn`t always apply but its a reasonable rule of thumb.

BTW we chartered a yacht in the Med a few years ago (southern coast of Turkey) and didn`t notice any tide to speak of.

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Old 08-29-2018, 06:14 PM   #9
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I'd suggest anchoring a bit and seeing how it is. If it rolls too much for you, the solution is stabilizers.
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Old 08-30-2018, 04:15 AM   #10
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Hi Roidagobert

Putting aside the strength capability of the mast, such a sail will only help your boat face into the wind if the sail is as far aft as possible - you mentioned in your initial post a mizzen - perfect for a sail boat.

Unfortunately most "masts" on trawlers are too far forward to do this they might help as a steadying sail (rolling) but not for holding into the wind.

Another thing to consider - the deep keel of yachts and relatively low free board means they are more influenced by tide than wind so the mizzen would help to fight this. Vice versa for a power boat so in most cases, any reasonable breeze will win over tide. I know, in areas where there are big tides this doesn`t always apply but its a reasonable rule of thumb.

BTW we chartered a yacht in the Med a few years ago (southern coast of Turkey) and didn`t notice any tide to speak of.

cheers
Confirmed: no significant tide in the Med.
I completely agree with you, but hope to find a (partial?) solution.

Thanks
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Old 08-30-2018, 04:18 AM   #11
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I'd suggest anchoring a bit and seeing how it is. If it rolls too much for you, the solution is stabilizers.
BandB roll is a different subject, and stabilizers the optimum solution.

but nothing to do with tacking at anchor: I must say that I have no experience with trawlers till now, only with sailing boats.
Maybe trawlers will have less troubles!
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Old 08-30-2018, 10:50 AM   #12
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BandB roll is a different subject, and stabilizers the optimum solution.

but nothing to do with tacking at anchor: I must say that I have no experience with trawlers till now, only with sailing boats.
Maybe trawlers will have less troubles!
I know the difference but in the OP's original post, he went from tacking to rolling and I sensed that perhaps rolling was as much his concern as tacking. In general, I hear a lot more complaints over rolling than tacking although I am bothered by the shifting of position if one wants to refer to it as tacking or as swinging. I'd prefer waking in the same position I went to sleep.
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Old 08-30-2018, 11:26 PM   #13
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After looking at Swift Trawler 44 photos, it looks like you could set up something similar to what we used. (Now that I know how well it works, I'll be making one to replace the scruffy old tarp.)

Sounds like you'll have an all chain rode. We have a combination rode, so in high winds the boat would be driven downwind, then bounce back upwind due to the elasticity in the nylon portion of the rode. When it went as far as it could go upwind, the boats bow would fall off the wind and then be driven downwind for another big bounce with a wide swing to one side or the other.

The little blue tarp on the aft end of our boom completely took that action away, and we ended up swinging back and forth a little, but in a much reduced, controlled manner.

I didn't notice the mast struggling in any way.
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Old 08-31-2018, 05:02 AM   #14
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After looking at Swift Trawler 44 photos, it looks like you could set up something similar to what we used. (Now that I know how well it works, I'll be making one to replace the scruffy old tarp.)

Sounds like you'll have an all chain rode. We have a combination rode, so in high winds the boat would be driven downwind, then bounce back upwind due to the elasticity in the nylon portion of the rode. When it went as far as it could go upwind, the boats bow would fall off the wind and then be driven downwind for another big bounce with a wide swing to one side or the other.

The little blue tarp on the aft end of our boom completely took that action away, and we ended up swinging back and forth a little, but in a much reduced, controlled manner.

I didn't notice the mast struggling in any way.
MurrayM thanks, this is exactly what I mean.

If this little tarp works well, I'll definitly go for it and test if the mast load doesn't seem too high.

Thanks again
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Old 08-31-2018, 07:28 AM   #15
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MurrayM thanks, this is exactly what I mean.

If this little tarp works well, I'll definitly go for it and test if the mast load doesn't seem too high.

Thanks again
A line frm the stern to the shore will keep the boat in one place. It is normal practice in the Med. Be sure you stern line has a enough lenght. Special devices are sold which can roll out and in a strong (woven band) line.

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Old 08-31-2018, 01:03 PM   #16
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We have a 36ft trawler that we use extensively in Alaska that has a steadying sail. We often get strong winds while and anchor and can identify with your experiences with the boat dancing at anchor. When the wind comes up we employ our sail and it drastically reduces the dancing, a recommendation that we strongly support. Our sail is only 41 square feet, but does an outstanding job. The sail keeps us within 10 degrees of head to wind.
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Old 08-31-2018, 02:32 PM   #17
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Another thought...

Our boom is used for hoisting the dinghy onto modified Weaver Davits, so the booms aft end is tightly tethered to the port and starboard corners of the stern to stop it from swaying side to side.

The single tether on the ST 44 would probably result in the boom moving back and forth, reducing the riding sails effectiveness.
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Old 08-31-2018, 03:08 PM   #18
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It seems to me that what we are after is wind resistance to the aft sides of the boat. My cockpit, aft of the salon, is open presenting no resistance from the side. I have been toying with the idea of a square tarp from the aft salon door to the stern of the boat, effectively closing that area from the side.. Maybe in the middle or maybe on both sides. That should keep the boat pointed into the wind. AND there are many strong points where I could attach the tarps.
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Old 09-06-2018, 08:35 AM   #19
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A line frm the stern to the shore will keep the boat in one place. It is normal practice in the Med. Be sure you stern line has a enough lenght. Special devices are sold which can roll out and in a strong (woven band) line.

Paul
Yes Paul, that's common in Croatian or greek waters.

Not so common elsewhere (Corsica, south France..).

That's where a staysail comes handy!
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Old 09-06-2018, 10:16 AM   #20
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I must say that I have no experience with trawlers till now, only with sailing boats.

Maybe trawlers will have less troubles!

My boat will also sail at anchor quite a bit under the right conditions. A few nights ago in 20 knot winds it was really annoying. Using a bridle helps but doesnít eliminate it.

However, every boat is different. My boat tends to fall off the wind bow first, that is what really creates the sailing at anchor. At this point, you donít know how your boat will behave. If it does tend to tack at anchor you donít yet know how much. So I would simply wait until you have your boat and use for a season to see if it really is a problem for you. If so, then look at some potential solutions.
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